Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: Boilermaker ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 12:54PM

I was surprised to find out that many of the "witnesses" to the Book of Mormon followed James Strang after Joseph Smith was killed. According to one web site I read, Martin Harris, David and John Whitmer, and Hiram Page all were duped by Strang. Lucy Smith followed him as well. It is hard to give these people any credibility when they were so easily fooled by someone else. Notably missing from the list is Oliver Cowdrey -- my feeling is that he always knew the Book of Mormon was a fraud so there would be no reason for him to accept Strang's claims. Somehow Mormons don't say anything about the witnesses following Strang -- that really undercuts their story.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: omen ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 12:58PM

I don't think most members even know about it to be honest. TSCC certainly isn't going volunteer any additional information about its history.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: AmIDarkNow? ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 01:58PM

At least Strang had real plates for folks to see even though he faked them. When one studies the history of the crazy things people believed in and the charlatans that preyed on religious and other types of ignorance you find that Smiths shenanigans is just one of many. Funny how no mormons are ever taught about who stayed behind and what they were witnesses of. I had never heard the name Strang until I did my own research.

Masters of Omission. That’s what the church hierarchy is.

If members were given all available information instead of the narrow sliver of faithful testimony protecting version then I think only the crazies would be left.


From mormonthink.com

"JAMES STRANG WITNESSES
http://www.strangite.org

LDS leader James Strang claimed to be the true prophet that succeeded Joseph after he was killed. Many Mormons followed Strang after he sent a letter claiming he had received a revelation that he should be prophet.

The letter convinced most of Smith's family and several other prominent Mormons that Strang's claims were genuine. John Whitmer, David Whitmer, Martin Harris, Hiram Page, John E. Page, William E. McLellin, William Smith, Smith's first wife and widow, Emma Hale Smith, the sisters of Joseph Smith, William Marks, George Miller, and others, including Joseph Smith's mother, Lucy Mack Smith. Lucy wrote to Reuben Hedlock: "I am satisfied that Joseph appointed J.J. Strang. It is verily so."(ibid) According to William Smith, all of Joseph Smith's family (excepting Hyrum Smith's widow), endorsed Strang; (Palmer, 211)

Here we have all of the living Book of Mormon witnesses, except Oliver Cowdery, as well as most of Smith's family and several other prominent members of the early LDS church accept Strang's claim of being a prophet by merely reading his letter. How much credibility can we give these people when they accept someone so easily as a prophet who later turns out to be a fraud?

In all, about 12,000 Latter-day saints recognized Strang's claims. A smaller group followed him to Beaver Island in Lake Michigan.

Most of his initial followers, including those listed above, would leave Strang's church before his death. Some eventually followed Brigham Young, but Smith's immediate family never did, and many of them formed the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a few years later.

There are many witnesses to James Strang's claim of having unearthed metal plates which he translated into scripture. Strang's translation of the metal plates was transcribed by Samuel Graham, and published as the 336 page Book of the Law of the Lord, said to be the original law as it was given to Moses.





The following is from the first page of the Book of the Law of the Lord with the testimony of the witnesses to the plates from which the book was translated from. Does this sound familiar?

T E S T I M O N Y .

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, to whom this Book of the Law of the Lord shall come, that James J. Strang has the plates of the ancient Book of the Law of the Lord given to Moses, from which he translated this law, and has shown them to us. We examined them with our eyes, and handled them with our hands. The engravings are beautiful antique workmanship, bearing a striking resemblance to the ancient oriental languages; and those from which the laws in this book were translated are eighteen in number, about seven inches and three-eights wide, by nine inches long, occasionally embellished with beautiful pictures.

And we testify unto you all that the everlasting kingdom of God is established, in which this law shall be kept, till it brings in rest and everlasting righteousness to all the faithful.

SAMUEL GRAHAM,
SAMUEL P. BACON,
WARREN POST,
PHINEAS WRIGHT,
ALBERT N. HOSMER,
EBENEZER PAGE,
JEHIEL SAVAGE.
http://www.strangite.org/Law.htm

Here's the detailed accounts of several witnesses that seem very similar to the BOM witnesses:

Testimony of Witnesses to the Voree Plates.
1.On the thirteenth day of September, 1845, we, Aaron Smith, Jirah B. Wheelan, James M. Van Nostrand, and Edward Whitcomb, assembled at the call of James J. Strang, who is by us and many others approved as a Prophet and Seer of God. He proceeded to inform us that it had been revealed to him in a vision that an account of an ancient people was buried in a hill south of White River bridge, near the east line of Walworth County; and leading us to an oak tree about one foot in diameter, told us that we would find it enclosed in a case of rude earthen ware under that tree at the depth of about three feet; requested us to dig it up, and charged us to so examine the ground that we should know we were not imposed upon, and that it had not been buried there since the tree grew. The tree was surrounded by a sward of deeply rooted grass, such as is usually found in the openings, and upon the most critical examination we could not discover any indication that it had ever been cut through or disturbed.
2.We then dug up the tree, and continued to dig to the depth of about three feet, where we found a case of slightly baked clay containing three plates of brass. On one side of one is a landscape view of the south end of Gardner's prairie and the range of hills where they were dug. On another is a man with a crown on his head and a scepter in his hand, above is an eye before an upright line, below the sun and moon surrounded with twelve stars, at the bottom are twelve large stars from three of which pillars arise, and closely interspersed with them are seventy very small stars. The other four sides are very closely covered with what appear to be alphabetic characters, but in a language of which we have no knowledge.
3.The case was found imbedded in indurated clay so closely fitting it that it broke in taking out, and the earth below the soil was so hard as to be dug with difficulty even with a pickax. Over the case was found a flat stone about one foot wide each way and three inches thick, which appeared to have undergone the action of fire, and fell in pieces after a few minutes exposure to the air. The digging extended in the clay about eighteen inches, there being two kinds of earth of different color and appearance above it.
4.We examined as we dug all the way with the utmost care, and we say, with utmost confidence, that no part of the earth through which we dug exhibited any sign or indication that it had been moved or disturbed at any time previous. The roots of the tree stuck down on every side very closely, extending below the case, and closely interwoven with roots from other trees. None of them had been broken or cut away. No clay is found in the country like that of which the case is made.
5.In fine, we found an alphabetic and pictorial record, carefully cased up, buried deep in the earth, covered with a flat stone, with an oak tree one foot in diameter growing over it, with every evidence that the sense can give that it has lain there as long as that tree has been growing. Strang took no part in the digging, but kept entirely away from before the first blow was struck till after the plates were taken out of the case; and the sole inducement to our digging was our faith in his statement as a Prophet of the Lord that a record would thus and there be found.
AARON SMITH,
JIRAH B. WHEELAN,
J. M. VAN NOSTRAND,
EDWARD WHITCOMB,
http://www.strangite.org/Reveal.htm

Strang actually had his plates in a museum for all to see for a time. If he was a fraud then it was obvious that he had made a prop of sufficient quality to fool a prolonged, detailed visual inspection by the public. This shows that making a prop of ancient plates during Joseph's time wasn't all that difficult. Also Joseph's plates were never shown in public and were always covered and if they were ever actually shown to the witnesses, it was only very briefly."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 02:34PM

AmIDarkNow? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funny how no mormons are ever taught about who stayed behind...

And they never mention that more stayed behind than followed BY.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: kookoo4kokaubeam ( )
Date: November 01, 2011 02:03PM

Thats the first i've heard that. Does anyone have the approximate numbers of how many stayed in the midwest vs how many actually went to Utah?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: helemon ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 02:29PM

And more of a matter of people not wanting to follow an @$$ like BY?

BY made some enemies in the church on his climb to power. It could be that many of the people who joined before him and had high ranking in the church did not want to follow him.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Quoth the Raven "Nevermo" ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 02:42PM

Boilermaker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Somehow Mormons
> don't say anything about the witnesses following
> Strang -- that really undercuts their story.

Thanks for the info, I didn't realize that. You are very right, if the witnesses went with Strang (who according to TSSC was false) then what does that say about their ability to see the truth? It shows them to be gullible and that they will follow anyone. Not exactly the best "witness" for a con man prophet.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Thread Killer ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 03:26PM

Notice that that no one describes the markings on the plates as the same or similar to the ones on the golden BoM plates. Hmmmm....

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: SpongeBob SquareGarments ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 03:58PM

Strang was kind of a bigwig in the church in the early days but from reading any church books currently used to teach its history, it's as if he didn't exist. I wonder what happened to his plates. There's actually still a few followers of his but when I say a few, I mean a few.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Boilermaker ( )
Date: October 31, 2011 07:15PM

SpongeBob SquareGarments Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Strang was kind of a bigwig in the church in the
> early days but from reading any church books
> currently used to teach its history, it's as if he
> didn't exist. I wonder what happened to his
> plates. There's actually still a few followers
> of his but when I say a few, I mean a few.

The fact that he was assassinated after he started polygamy in his church and declared himself King of the Church sounds an awful lot like his mentor ... The fact that a character like Strang could dupe the witnesses shows just how unstable they were.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: luminouswatcher ( )
Date: November 01, 2011 12:57AM

If you look at BY, all of his significant teachings are now anathema. He denied having the gifts of a seer, he denied priesthood to blacks and allowed the church to own slaves collected as tithing payments, fostered Adam God Doctrine, with only Orson Pratt offering any residence, etc. The spiritual gifts started their decline until they vanished from member practices.

Strang claimed and acted as a prophet in the JS tradition, even including the Prophet, Priest, and King motif. He allowed blacks to be ordained, just as JS did. The claimed to be a seer and a revelator, just as JS did. The old school mormons that were not active participants in the inner circle of polygamy followed him. The spiritual gifts abounded. Strang did not appoint a successor, and the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (no hyphen little 'd'), still carry on without a butt in the prophet office.

The radical inner circle followed BY to the Great Basin. And I always marveled that the folks that were weak and were left behind, seemed to be able to peacefully coexist with their neighbors without much incident once the Danite crowd moved west.

If the following a prophet is the baseline, I find it much more bizarre to follow BY than to follow Strang.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **        **     **  **     **  ********   **     ** 
 **        **     **  **     **  **     **  **     ** 
 **        **     **  **     **  **     **  **     ** 
 **        **     **  *********  ********   **     ** 
 **         **   **   **     **  **         **     ** 
 **          ** **    **     **  **         **     ** 
 ********     ***     **     **  **          *******