Meldrum asserts that the Hopewell Indians and the Nephites had semitic ancestry. Meldrum writes they both "had Semitic ancestry, as verified by DNA analysis of Hopewell skeletal remains having haplogroup X and dating into BoM time frames compared with genealogical information from the text" (Meldrum 2011). I have not heard of any American indians of clear jewish ancestry, but perhaps information has come out that I am ignorant of. Meldrum provides no source for the claim that the Hopewell indians are of Jewish ancestry. Is there a board member that can help shed some light on this?

Here is the link to the debate:

http://publicsquare.net/the-book-of-mormon-a-second-reply-to-richard-packham

The haplogroup x in America is quite different from the types found in the old world. This difference is because they split from the common stock long, long before the BofM.

Wikipedia explains some of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)

"However, the New World haplogroup X2a is as different from any of the Old World X2b, X2c, X2d, X2e and X2f lineages as they are from each other, indicating an early origin likely at the very beginning of their expansion and spread from the Near East".

That "initial expansion and spread from the Near East" was tens of thousands of years ago. It had nothing to do with the Hebrew people of the Bible.

If it supported the Book of Mormon, the LDS scientist Dr. Perego would have said so, but his research says it was old, (back to the ice-age old) and one of the founding lineages of paleo-indians:

Distinctive paleo-indian migration routes from beringia marked by two rare mtdna haplogroups (2009)

http://medicina.xenomica.org/files/AntonioSalas/Perego_CurrentBiology_2009_distintive%20Paleo-Indian%20Migrations%20Routes%20from%20Beringia.pdf

"X2a entered through the ice-free corridor between the Laurentide and Cordilleran ice sheets"

The initial peopling of the Americas (2010)

http://genome.cshlp.org/content/20/9/1174.full.pdf+html

"A similar entry time is also shown for haplogroup X2a, whose restricted geographical distribution in northern North America appears to be due not to a later arrival, but to its entry route through the ice-free corridor"

When LDS argue about haplogroup x supporting the BofM, they are not even in agreement with an LDS scientist.

:-)

Native americans are shown to have come form Asia from their DNA, there is no jewish ancestry. He is full of shit. Try some internet searches in it, I have read several articles. Just more imaginary facts.

The Haplogroup X argument is one of those fishing lines mopologists throw out in hopes some ignorant kolobian will grab hold and in the event some uninformed non-member says "you know they haven't found any hebrew DNA in native americans, right?" the kolobian will answer "actually, they found haplogroup X in some skeletal remains of the hopewells" and the uninformed non-member (not having actually studied anything relating to the subject) will say "oh, that's interesting" and the kolobian will feel they have shot down another piece of anti-mormon propaganda and fill out their tithing check.

Exactly.

My dad being one such person, who just loves the scientific proof of the BoM he reads about on the toilet in shitty pseudo-scientific books.

"Haplogroup X" could be an entirely made up f***ing word for all he cares. As long as it sounds intelligent and "proves" the writings of Solomon Spaulding were actually engraved on golden plates in a made up language and delivered to JS by an angel, he doesn't care.

Such a shame, because he also reads very good books on quantum physics, popular history and archaeology.

Well, I just posted a piece on the Parley Pratt thread about the reccurring need of this board to "clarify" decades of misinformation that is widespread in the LDS culture... So here goes...

Meldrum provides no source for the claim the Hopewell Indians have Jewish ancestry because there is zero--repeat zero--credible evidence for this belief, which was nevertheless widespread in Joseph Smith's day. There are quite a number of proven forgeries, the Newark Holy Stones, the Bat Creek Stone, the Kensington Runestone, and the Los Lunas Decalogue Stone, that believers point to repeatedly, but mainstream archaeologists and anthropologists overwhelmingly reject that possibility.

Here's one example...

http://ohio-archaeology.blogspot.com/2010/12/commentary-on-lost-civilizations-of.html

>As scholars committed to increasing public understanding of Native American history and archaeology, we want to make it clear that we do not support the theories presented in “The Lost Civilizations of North America” DVD. In our opinion, there is no compelling archaeological or genetic evidence for a migration from the Middle East to North America a few thousand years ago, nor is there any credible scientific evidence that Old World civilizations were involved in developing Native American cultures in pre-Columbian times. Many of the artifacts used to support the film’s claims, such as the Newark "Holy Stones," have been proven fraudulent based on convincing scientific evidence and historical documentation

Note that this site is linked in the comments at the bottom... And I see there's another update with an article in "The Skeptical Inquirer."

http://ohio-archaeology.blogspot.com/2011/10/responding-to-lost-civilizations-of.html

Meldrum's DNA claims rest on one haplogroup of "mitochondrial DNA," the "X" classification, having a presence in both Native American and Middle Eastern/European individuals. This simply proves there was a common ancestor some 30-40,000 years ago as humans were migrating out Africa and populating the rest of the world (X is a very "old" haplogroup). The X variations found among Native Americans are much more closely related to those sequences found among the Altai people in Siberia than in more westerly Eurasian peoples.

>http://mormonscripturestudies.com/bomor/twm/lamgen.asp

This one is from Thomas Murphy, whose original remarks on this subject nearly resulted in his excommunication from the LDS Church (he is presently inactive, to the best of my knowledge).

>Haplogroup X can be found in low frequencies in Europe, the Near East (including Israelis), and North America. Until very recently it was thought to be virtually absent from living eastern-central Asian, Siberian, Central, and South American populations.[49] Torroni proposed "that some Native American founders could have been of Caucasoid ancestry and haplogroup X might have been brought, directly or indirectly, to Beringia/America by the eastward migration of a 'Caucasoid' population which apparently did not contribute to the maternally derived gene pool of modern Siberian/East Asian populations." Geneticist Theodore Schurr reported the presence of haplogroup X in "two Pre-Columbian North American populations" and the possible presence in "a few ancient Brazilian samples." Because of distinctive variations within the Native American haplogroup that distinguish it from European haplotypes Michael D. Brown et al. date the arrival of haplogroup X in North America to 12,000-36,000 years ago. Sykes's research echoes this timing and interpretation, tracing X's origin to the borders of Europe and Asia approximately 25,000 years ago and noting the early separations of distinctive branches—one of which gave rise to the European and the other to the Asian/Native American matrilineages.

>The discovery of a rare haplogroup X with apparent linkages to the Near East sparked the interest of some Latter-day Saints despite posing considerable difficulty for the chronology and geography of the BoMor. The timing of the entry of haplogroup X predates the events of the BoMor by thousands of years. The distribution of X in America challenges both the traditional hemispheric geography of the BoMor and the more recent limited geography in Central America posited by researchers associated with the Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies (FARMS). X neither appears spread across the American continents nor in a selected region in Central America.

Thanks Cabbie, your sources are good. I was sure that there was no concrete evidence for Meldrum's claim. It's amazing that Meldrum goes into a public debate forum and provides nothing to back up his arguments. Apologist Strategies 101 I guess.