Continuing this discussion from another thread.

Yes, I know the churchhandbook suggests getting parent permission first, but it's only a suggested policy, not a commandment.

Many times local leaders are inspired to follow the spirit. They might break with policy if they think it's for the best.

They have sent bills for tithing to me as an inactive.

They have given approval for neighbors to sneak kids to church behind the backs of their parents.

They dead dunk without approval from the next of kin and after less than a year of death.

They ex or disfellowship for wildly differing and non-standard reasons.

I could go on and on. But the point is this. Do NOT count on mormons to follow policies. They don't even abide by commandments of God in all cases.

I was just ranting yesterday to a coupla mos about church people (not just mos) who scoop other people's kids to proselytize and even baptize them without permission.

I went on and on and on.

I thought they agreed with me that it's wrong wrong wrong so I just kept ranting on and on about it.

Now I'm blushing. I usually try not to be so heavy-handed but I had no clue they may see it a different way.

I was especially incensed about believers who try and scoop the kids of non-believers or even other religions outside Christianity. That is a major atrocity in my book. I can't begin to comprehend how people find that an acceptable approach. None of us has the right to scoop somebody else's kids for such purposes.

Boundaries must be respected.

Oh wait...

First of all, when I was in the Primary Presidency, it was a very common tactic to friendship children in the ward who were inactive in hopes of baptizing them and reactivating the family. It's very, very common to believe if you can get the children attending, it will soften the parents heart and they will return as well. Now I know, what it really does is piss off parents who feel their child is being targeted and groomed by religious fanatics to turn against their parents and toward the church. But I never saw it that way as a member because it's thought of as more of a "save the family" deal.

Second, same tactics worked on my mission. We'd meet kids in the park and sometimes the elders would play basketball with them or something. We'd use the kids, who were more open and friendly, to get us in the door to teach the parents.

Third, my in-laws had several exchange students and so did a number of their friends. This was back in the 70s in Salt Lake City. It was seen as a great opportunity to spread the gospel, teach them the Book of Mormon, introduce them to the church and what nice people Mormons were. I'm pretty sure my in-laws did it for that reason. They also had a "Lamanite" exchange student for a while too. One more example of Mormons thinking it's OK to go after other peoples' kids because they have a religious right to do so.

Finally, when I was in the Primary Presidency, we actually called an elderly woman to come down to the Primary room each month and escort, one by one, the children who were turning 8 that month, up to the Bishop's office for a private interview. She would wait outside the door until the bishop was done. It was a short interview to talk to the child about their upcoming baptism. Then she would escort the child back to the Primary room. No parents were involved or even asked if it was OK. No parents ever complained either. It was a routine example of how completely clueless Mormons are about parental rights and boundaries in general. Even amongst their own people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2011 08:27PM by CA girl.

I just threw up in my mouth a little. I really hope my daughter has never been interviewed by anyone behind my back. I'm going to ask her, and if so all hell WILL break loose.

Tsk! Tsk! They are disobeying the instructions from the Prophet Joseph Smith:

From the book "Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith" pp 86-87:

"[A missionary] instead of commencing with children, or those who look up to parents or guardians to influence their minds, thereby drawing them from their duties, which they rightfully owe their legal guardians, they should commence their labors with parents, or guardians;...and no influence should be used with children, contrary to the consent of their parents or guardians;...therefore, first teach the parents, and then, with their consent, persuade the children... ...if a man forbid ... his children, before they are of age, to receive the Gospel, then it should be the duty of the Elder to go his way, and use no influence against him [the father]..."

No one outside of the mormon church cares much what the handbook says and only a few withing the church have access to it. Those who do know about it often don't read or follow it.

Apparently the handbook allows, that in households that have one parent due to divorce, if the legal guardian has sole custody then the second parents consent is not required before a minor can be baptised.

Or when they have approval of only one TBM parent or grandparent who does not have primary custody.

I don't have experience of that happening but I don't doubt that it can and does happen. It's probably more about local decisions than Church policy, but when the Church missionaries are being wound up to increase the numbers it's unsurprising that rules get bent and broken.

I don't think that the Church nor it's members (with exceptions obviously) are good examples of practicing what they preach.

...The records of a lone 16-year-old arrived in our weekly batch of last-known-address records from HQ.
I went to the address and his mom answered the door. She was unaware that her son had been baptized, but she knew right away it had occured while he was overseas as an exchange student. She was cordially indignant and genuinely asked us by what possible conscientious principle we solicited an isolated child to our religion. She actually said that she wouldn't dissuade him from it when he turns 18, but that as a minor he's incapable of informed consent.
Even as a TBM at the time, I knew we were in the wrong for doing that and I was mad at the missionaries for such a desperate stunt. I thought they really made us look bad.
It was over ten years ago and I can't remember exactly what we did with the record. I think the bishop did a name-removal.

A number of years ago a grandmother posted about mormon babysitters arranged mishie discussions for three children. I started up an email friendship with grandma. She said that one night at dinner the middle school aged child addmitted that she had been baptized and confirmed mormon.

The mother and grandmother were outraged!

It turns out that the babysitters thought the mom wouldn't mind and they threatened the kids to take the mormon lessons or they'd raise the babysitting rates and the mom would have to quit her job. So the kids went along with it.

This was a Baptist family in the South. The grandmother had been ill but was well enough to care for the children until she could find another sitter. I told her how to have the child's name removed and she arranged counseling for the girl who needed some therapy to recover from her mormon sitters and the missionary and church intimidation.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
mother and grandmother were outraged!
>
> It turns out that the babysitters thought the mom
> wouldn't mind and they threatened the kids to take
> the mormon lessons or they'd raise the babysitting
> rates and the mom would have to quit her job. So
> the kids went along with it.
>

OMG. They threatened the children with their mom losing her job? Why does nothing aobut the morg and its brain washed followers surprise me?

Why don't people sue the church when this happens?

I guess they can not wait for the kid to become 18. OMG they are not even happy that they can do everything (bap, endow, seal) after a person dies. Well, the dead don't tithe.

My convert daughter took discussions with the missionaries at age 16 without our knowledge, let alone persmission.

A few years ago, while attending the wedding reception of a neighbor friend's son, a woman who I didn't know but was apparently a neighbor sat down next to me and started asking questions about this daughter. It became clear after a few minutes that she had hosted the discussions between my daughter and the mishies at her home. She went on and on about how she loved my daughter and was so inspired by her "testimony".......oblivious to my astonishment.

I guess you could say I just let it go. We were sitting at a table for a wedding reception and it didn't seem like the time and place. But honestly, I was caught off guard and it wasn't until after I had had some time to process her comments that I was able to come up with some pithy responses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2011 06:39PM by caedmon.

Gee, sounds like something a cult might do..."but we're not a cult!"