Here's an update on my ongoing story about my angry tbm wife. She has been bitterly angry with me for encouraging my then-younger-teenage son to skip church, which led quickly to full inactivity and disbelief on his part. I also shared with my newly-RM son about the church, after he returned from his mission with his faith in tatters.

RFM played a big role in my choosing to help my sons out. I was angry with the church, and tried in vain to de-convert DW, which only made her dig in harder.

But DW and I have paid a dear price for my actions, as my beloved wife has been unable to forgive me for seven years, and life has been sad, stressful and incomplete for us both. And she was depressed for three years, and let herself go physically. She is now obese and an insulin-dependent diabetic.

I recently experienced a close brush with death, which made things in general all the more serious for me. Constant recurring, odd surging adrenalin-type rushes in my upper body led me to seek her help, and we spent a week of nights talking for many hours, sometimes into the early morning, about our many years of life and history together. And somewhere in this lengthy discussion, my tearful apologies and professions (and her own accountabilities) finally got thru to her.

She has forgiven me. Pretty amazing. Her fully-loving smile is back, she's full of hugs, and I don't think I could be much happier.

If I had a do-over, I think I would have left my son alone to make up his own mind, and not encouraged him to stay home. I'm sure he would have seen thru all of it as he grew to manhood. At the time, I didn't want to risk that he might be sucked in as my other kids have been. But now, I realize I made a big mistake, and should have left the process alone in the main.

DW is simply a "Mama Griz" when it comes to her kids. I didn't imagine how extreme her anger would be. I became the single focus of her blame for the failure of two sons, and the crime of hurting her in an unforgivable way. Our reconciliation has looked pretty hopeless for seven years.

But all experience has value, I have learned a lot from this episode.

Now I respect her very strongly-set boundaries and feelings much more. Every moment together has become precious, so I choose my words carefully, for her sake.

And I also learned to value persistence in any endeavor, as I have struggled, mostly in vain, for years to find a way to heal our rift. I have learned so many new skills as I sought answers within. Now I know, all things are possible with persistent effort and good intentions. And a lot of help from the source of being. :)

Making make changes is hard. It is easy to make missteps and it is especially hard when kids are involved. In my opinion, you've made a good assessment and I'm glad you and your wife are on a new footing.

One of my concerns early on when people discover they don't want to be Mormon is they sometimes introduce so much change so quickly that spouses and other loved ones don't have time to adjust and to respond in a thoughtful rather than a defensive way. This creates a fight rather than a dialog. I know that sometimes a fight can't be helped, but my preference is to reduce wear-and-tear when possible.

I am glad you survived your brush with death! Sounds like it also gave you a perspective you didn't have before.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2011 11:20PM by robertb.

Hello, I'm glad that you are coming to an understanding with your wife. It's your family, your wife, and your decision-making, and I'm glad that it's working out for you.

Having said that, I don't agree with you that it was wrong to tell your sons about your point of view. You have as much right to share your point of view as your wife does. Your RM was old enough, and it sounds like your other teen was probably old enough as well.

I think it gets tricky with kids. Certainly parents can express their differing views. It is a different thing, however, when one parent appears to be undermining the other. Spitting is a common issue and one that generates a lot of anger. Ideally, parents would work out a joint position before encouraging a child one way or another. That isn't necessarily possible and while I support parents expressing their views, I would be hesitant to encourage one parent to directly encourage his or her view over the other parent. I don't want to see kids used in an ideological battle between the parents.

Summer, she was able to cope with a certain amount of my sharing with the boys. She didn't like it, and was not happy, but she didn't yet hate me. What really tore it for her was, I told our youngest, I think 13 or 14 at the time, that he didn't have to go to church if he didn't want to. He had never considered that he might have the option to decline his mother's push to church. He was glad to hear that, and stopped attending. To DW, THIS was the unforgivable act.

She was sure that, in spite of his disbelief, church, seminary and a mission would eventually bring him into the "holy fold", and I ruined that plan.

So while I agree that I had a right, even a duty to help my sons, and that they were surely old enough to learn and decide for themselves, still, the result was I lost something most precious to me-her love.

It is so wonderful to see her smiling now. :)

That was about the age that I stopped attending the Catholic church for good. My bet is that nothing would have swayed your son otherwise, but she wouldn't have known that.

Again, I'm glad that it's all worked out.

Encouraging your kids to get out of the cult was your duty and the decent thing to do as a parent.
Your input was an important and much needed contribution.

Your wife had no business trying to be the only one to influence your children.
As for her subsequent problems, don't be so so quick to assume all the blame.

You seem to be in a vulnerable emotional position due to your close brush with death.

I do agree with you Leah, she was being selfish. But I have learned that, especially when it comes to her kids, she will be selfish. Yes, she sees them as hers more than ours. That's the way she is. Moreso now that I am exmo.

And altho I am in an emotionally vulnerable place recently, the fact is I have been in this place for seven years, and I have missed her terribly. Right or wrong, she blamed me. And that's what I have to deal with.

The two boys are out, and I will hope the other seven will wake up eventually. But regardless, after 50 years together, I can't live without my sweet love. Her healing is my top priority.

I think it's wonderful that you've found a way to reconcile with your wife. Love is such an important and wonderful thing to have in your life. (I accidentally rhymed my sentences!)

++++++++++++1

I agree completely.

His love is unconditional, hers' is not..BIG difference...

He ALSO has a RIGHT in how to spirtually educate HIS children.....

Mormons in a mixed home always assume since the mormon is TBM...that ONLY the mormon in the house gets to and should spirtually educate their children...

hello, I think you're doing the right thing. Perhaps your other children will see that you love their mom more than anything and it will make a postive influence on their decision to leave the church.

Now you might understand why I take the position I do --
leave other people's religious beliefs alone.

Respect their RIGHTS to their beliefs just as you want yours respected.

It's not my job to try to change other people's religious beliefs.

They will do it on their own, if they see a need, and have a desire to change their thinking and their beliefs.

It's ok to have different beliefs. We don't all have to be the same. Unconditional love requires we love others: as-is.

I'm a strong advocate of taking a positive, loving approach; using positive, kind, polite terms, and words, and treating everyone in a positive manner as much as possible.

That is my definition of a tribe for Mormonism:
Mormonism, in my long experience and observation is more accurately described as a patriarchal-line of authority, generational, cultural, religious tribe with it's own sacred clothing, music, and language. The word: tribe is used in their lexicon. (As an adult convert, I was considered an adopted member of the tribe. )

Considering how tribes universally manifest, it is, in my view, the best way to understand how Mormonism creates a whole paradigm for the individual in a typically generational, patriarchal, familial, societal, religious context aka tribe complete with it's own unique rituals/ordinances, music, and language including special garments (underwear) to be worn day and night.


I refrain from using words that have taken on a pejorative meaning like: cult. That is a negative word that shuts down acceptance, closes doors,instead of opening them.

I have found that any kind of recovery, in my experience absolutely requires a positive, loving, approach. Otherwise negativity as in bitterness, anger, resentment, etc, takes over and there is no room for the kind of recovery that is peace of mind.

I'd like to thank all the posters on this thread. :)

SusieQ#!, I wish I had paid more attention to your posts 7 and more years ago. I eventually did so, tho, and I became a fan of your philosophy and approach to being and relationships. Thanks so much! ")

hello Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to thank all the posters on this thread.
> :)
>
> SusieQ#!, I wish I had paid more attention to your
> posts 7 and more years ago. I eventually did so,
> tho, and I became a fan of your philosophy and
> approach to being and relationships. Thanks so
> much! ")

I'm happy you found something that works for you. Thank you for the kind words.