Someone on another thread mentioned that if parents had any idea how dangerous a mission was, they'd think twice about it. But how could the majority of them NOT know? Because most of the people who raise children who go on missions either went on a mission themselves or married an RM. It's the old guard's offspring that make up the bulk of the missionaries nowadays. If a man or woman went on a mission, they KNOW of the dangers they faced or escaped or damaged other missionaries in their mission.

For example, DH was also hit riding a bike on his mission in the south. Fortunately, he walked away with cuts and bruises, needing to buy a new bike. He also missed a tornado warning and was lucky to escape in one piece. Not to mention a number of close calls with heatstroke and a companion that tried to beat the crap out of him on a daily basis (til he was transferred). And it's not just Elders. A lot of my friends were sister missionaries too and amongst ourselves, we will dish about horrible things we heard of happening - sisters who were molested, elders held up at gunpoint, suicidal companions. Most husbands and wives must discuss these narrow escapes and straight on hits with each other, even if the wife didn't serve a mission.

So my conclusion here is that most active LDS parents who send their sons on missions know EXACTLY how dangerous it can be to serve a mission and they are ignoring it. They are either convinced that God will magically keep their sons safe while other peoples' sons die. Or, they put the danger out of their minds because all they can think of is how important it is their son serve a mission - no matter the risk. And no one thinks the church is complicit in putting the missionaries in more danger than necessary. No one demands better conditions. No one dares ask questions. But they must know what they are sending their sons off to face, even if they don't know for sure of the degree.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2011 08:35PM by CA girl.

My dad didn't go on a mission. I know my mother's brother and BIL went on missions, but none of my dad's family did. There was only I believe two grandsons who went on missions and one was my disabled brother. He left on his mission the week my twins were born almost 26 years ago. He came back an almost ruined person.

He is a little mentally disabled and physically disabled (had a stroke when he was born--he lives on his own and works 2 jobs). He had some really good friends in high school (they are still his friends and he is 46)--and he acted fairly normal. He looked normal. You'd never have known except when he walks, he limps.

He came back a MESS. He has never completely recovered. It was THEN that I started telling my son he would NEVER serve a mission.

My ex did serve a mission. He hasn't said a lot about it. He worked in the mission home quite a bit. Actually--he and the mission president's daughter have recently reconnected--she was hoping he was "available . . . " I'm laughing.

**May I just add--do most TBMs tell the truth about their missions?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2011 08:54PM by cl2.

"Do most TBMs tell the truth about their missions?"

ABSOLUTELY NOT! It is a sin next to blasphemy to admit that it wasn't the best 2 years of your life. They MOST you can say is that, "it was really tough, but..." followed by a faith promoting story.

I can't tell you how many times as a sister missionary in Spain we ended up in a dark ally with the only other person there being an insane homeless man. A member pointed a huge chopping knife in my face and waved it around yelling at me when my companion and I showed up late to help with Christmas preparations because we had a rare and random chance to teach a discussion. One of the members we were supposed to visit was an elderly woman. Her 50 year old son was living with her and unbeknownst to us was raping her. Once we gave a prayer and opened our eyes to him touching himself. How many times were we in that apartment? The list goes on and on and on and on. I've met so many missionaries that went to South America that have never fully recovered from the parasites and gestational issues they encountered.

Uh, yuck.

I knew, and I tried to do something about it. But I was met with stupidity.

My TBM wife and I were divorced, and my oldest decided to go on a mission. He was scheduled to go to the Ivory Coast. I looked up on the internet what was happening. This was at a time when there were riots, and 200 policemen were reported to have been killed by rioters during the previous 6 months. LDS people around me all said, "Don't worry; he'll be OK." "Nothing will happen; he'll be doing the lord's work."

I said BS - How can anyone know what will or will not happen? Even their profit doesn't know what's happening now, let alone what'll happen in the future.

I looked up and called the mission president in the Ivory Coast to ask about security procedures. At first, he was irritated that I would even question him about this, but he calmed down and told me what they do. He said that white missionaries were paired with an African missionary, so there would be someone who has an idea of how to survive on the streets. And he said that - when there were problems (riots) - the missionaries were directed to stay in their apartments. Not a lot of 'protection' as far as I could tell.

I was trying to decide what type of self-protection devices I could get, and how I could send them with my son (tasers, knives, etc.). I even thought of giving him some fake grenades that he could wear on his belt, so as to let others know not to mess with him.

After he was in the missionary training compound in Provo a couple of weeks, my son reported to the powers to be that he couldn't 'get' the French language, and he'd have to leave. The next day, they sent him to East L.A. I didn't have time to provide him with the necessary 'protection devices' that he would need there, too.

He came back after two years with only two bike wrecks. Otherwise, he was physically OK.

I suspect it all comes down to the odds: Small chance of danger vs. guaranteed stigma for not serving. The rest of your life is more significant that those measly two years.

I suspect that most *TBMs* are hiding something about their missions...anything bad would automatically be assumed to be the fault of the missionary. It's basically just a proving ground to see who's gonna play the ol' boys game by the prescribed rules.

they simply hide their heads in the sand, send in their tithing money, and send their kids out on missions. They expect blessings and special God-coverage while serving the Lord.

I've been to quite a few missionary farewell "open houses." (Sidenote... these used to be pretty neat events for the prospective missionary... but the head honchos in SLC decided it was too distracting and giving the kid too much attention, so they "reduced" them. Idiots. Church leaders are the masters of taking away anything that makes their members happy.) Anyway, I pay attention to the parents. Some are using their child as a prop -- "See us, we have a missionary, we're blessed!" But for each one of those, I'd see a mom/dad who would put on the happy face, but you could see they weren't ready for the separation, or they had fear or concern, but can't say or do anything about it.

People who believe they were specially chosen by God to be born within the covenant or to find the church, out of a Gazillion human beings who lived in ignorance and darkness on the earth, certainly can assume that their precious child will be perfectly protected by the Lord.

I think they're proud that their kid is so favored of god that he will be a survior and reap eternal bessings for his effort.

It seems “near misses” and “close calls” that TBM former missionaries experienced are looked at as testimonkey building- proof positive of divine intervention. And they do most gullibly expect them to continue to protect their sons and daughters.

The rest of us know how dam lucky we were.....

As far as the church is concerned- collateral damage, acceptable losses, casualties of war and numerous other military phrases all apply nicely.

I am sure many parents know the risk and are just willing to dutifully send them off in much the same way that people patriotically do their children to war. Betting on the odds they will come back.

Kinda sick…..

MISSION OR NOT ON A MISSION

The actual fact of living in foreign cities and not in the close knit surroundings of a familiar community is the major problem. The surroundings cause most of the problems..


A rural 19 year old kid from Idaho, fresh off the farm, is not fully mature enough to handle the bustling street life of a 12 million city like London or Paris or Rome or Nairobi. Whether it for a mission or for any other reason. Young elders and sisters, who have never been away from home before, with their travel consisting of Home - to - Chapel- to -School - to Mall, are culturally immature and socially inept. Therefore it is not suprising that things of this nature happen ..

JB

No one told me how stressful and sometimes dangerous a mission could be.

I think too many TBM's want to hold onto the delusion that a mission is the two best years of a persons life, so they just completely block out the potential danger of it.

Everyone I talked to before I left told me it was such a wonderful, spiritual, etc. experience. It's too hard for many to confess the truth about it apparently.

I had a cousin, a couple times removed, who was killed on his mission a few years ago. He and his companion were in a sketchy neighborhood back east when they had a gun pulled on them. My cousin died and his companion was wounded. This really shook my Mormon testimony and really made question everything I was told about the church, especially about the spirit protecting people.

Alot of missionaries from Guatemala routinely come home from their missions with parasites living permanently in their digestive tracts. The same thing can be said of some other latin american countries. The parents know this from talking to other parents of missionaries that have come home with stomach and other health problems. However, they think nothing of it. Its the price you pay for serving the Lord. Its a martyr complex.

However, it took the efforts of his Jack-Mo mother (a registered nurse whom nobody in their right mind would ignore) to rip the MP a new one before DH could be properly treated, in a big-city hospital.

DH eventually figured out that the MP did NOT have DH's best interests in mind, and he has been a bit wary of "authority" types ever since.

Apparently mishies can complain of being ill, but unless somebody else steps in and threatens the MP with bodily harm (or perhaps a juicy scandal) the MP doesn't do anything about it.

What a lovely organization!

I've never thought of it as that. Do we have any stats on how many missionaries die yearly, or per the population of missionaries?

Edit: I guess die or get hurt and/or seriously ill. That would be a more fair statistic.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2011 11:18PM by snb.

Even stateside it is very dangerous.

The mishies here stay in 2 apartment complexes right next to each other. a total of 6 elders, assigned to 2 different areas and one set of sister live there.

Since 2009 there have been 3 deaths from gunshots and several very serious wounds from gun fire as well. There are drugs, robberies and the like and arrests every single month. The place is loaded with bugs,mice and mold.

I don't know about this year, but the last 2 years the elders have had their apartments broken into 4 times that I have known of.

There are better places to live within the mission boundaries, at close to the same cost. I can't see why the continue to have them live there, unless maybe they get a discount for the 3 apartments..?

Can you look up on that particular county's "real property assessments" webpage, who owns the building, or owns the complex this building is in?

If the LDS church owns it, or someone tightly connected to the church does, that's your answer about why they put the mishies there: because they profit from doing so.

Thanks ! I finally figured out how to do that. ust like in the library, if you can figure out what to call a thing, you can look it up (real property assessments)

I've chased these 2 places down, from what I can find, doesn't seem to be LD$ Inc.

So why the keep them there I don't know.

Instead of being inspired to appoint people to oversee these things, they'd be so better off if the had people who knew these areas. They and the kids they send here are clueless. A good example of that was when I was at some fireside and they were talking about the ghetto ( talking about my side of town) I told them and the Mission president that while bad, it wasn't a ghetto. I told the MP he should hae a field trip. By then he was tired of me and my opinions..

Definitely, some parents know, but they send their children, anyway. The missionary parents I know, seem to be in denial about a lot of things, and a mission is just one of many other delusions. They believe that the whole family will reap extra blessings from God, while their child is on a mission. They also believe that God protects missionaries. They believe that their returned missionary will get married in the temple, have lots of children, be blessed with money and cars and houses, have leadership callings, go on several senior couples missions, die and go to the Celestial Kingdom, and be Gods with many wives, someday. Delusional!

Two of these parents had a missionary who lived in an American inner-city apartment like Nomilk described. They frequently heard gunshots and sirens. He witnessed a shooting, in which a man was killed. After he was transferred, the church shut down that neighborhood to missionaries, altogether. He never converted anyone. They went ahead and sent out a second missionary son, who also is in a scary US city. He's been out only 6 months, and has had 3 companions go home early. The first one spent more and more time in bed, in the fetal position, the second one started screaming, and threatening suicide, and this recent one cried all the time. The son writes that he's always getting "yelled at, and corrected, but I can take it--LOL" Now the parents are all excited about sending a third son out, and they are bragging that they will have two missionaries out at the same time. Woot-woot. They do like drama.

How can they let their son suffer like that and take pride in it because it's for the gospel? How can they hear of other missionaries cracking and going home, mentally and physically destroyed and not see the danger to their child? If this were my son, I would be throwing a fit and if that didn't work, I'd be on an airplane to bring him home. Mormon parents let their kids suffer for the gospel and if your parents aren't on your side, what does that tell you as the child? That the gospel is more important than them. Admitting that the gospel isn't true is like admitting your parents loved a fairy tale more than they loved you.

No wonder some people cling to the very chains that drag them down to hell.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2011 10:33AM by CA girl.

I commuted to my job on a bicycle in Salt Lake City for over 30 years. I had two major wrecks that put me in the hospital, and three minor wrecks. Looking back on all that bicycling time, I now understand that I was lucky to have survived.

Bicycling on roadways has grown more dangerous due to car drivers using cell phones and texting while driving. There is NO WAY that I would ride a bicycle in a city, given the dangers that exist today.

The average young missionary who serves in an urban setting is highly unlikely to have prior "on the road" experience riding a bicycle. Surviving is initially not a matter of experience because they have no bicycling experience. If they survive, it is a matter of good luck.

Some missionaries are attracted to dangerous areas to prove their faith, believing that no harm can come to them because they're in the service of God. Of course, they drag their less faithful companions along with them. I'm sure that's the thinking of the leaders who had elders running around in bad areas of Northern Ireland in the 1980s during "the troubles." That was just unbelievable. We should not have been there at all.

Then there is the irresponsible use of the cars. Very often I was one of six or more elders packed into an 850cc Ford Fiesta where the driver could hardly shift. In fact, that sort of thing happened more often than not in my mission. I hurt my back once, because I was laying across the knees of elders in the back seat. I've also ridden in the boot of a hatchback. I realize college students do that sort of thing a lot, but it was done out of necessity because there weren't enough cars to get people to meetings held in areas an hour and a half away by bus. There were crazy drivers in the mission field who really believed they were protected from harm by god. It could be terrifying to be a passenger.

Another problem is the suspicion Mormons have of mental illness, such as chronic depression and bipolar disorder. Telling a depressed person that his or her problem is sin or not working hard enough -- when they are already pulling a 60 hour work week -- is a recipe for suicide.

The mandate that "every worthy young man" serve a mission adds additional trouble to an already dangerous mindset. I think missions are bad news, when they might actually be a good thing for young people to get out and see the world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2011 10:07AM by Makurosu.

As dangerous as it is in the mission field I think it would be a great idea if someone who was sending one of their sons/daughters on a mission would have a lawyer write up a contract that would hold the church accountable for any and all damages to their son/daughter while they were in the employment of the church. Even if that said employment was a voluntary variety they are still representative of the church, for the church, in a capacity approved by the church and so on. So the church is 100% responsible for the safety of that missionary and will be held liable. Send that along with your acceptance letter to have one of the 15 sign it.

malnutrition, poor sanitation, marginal or nonexistent health and dental care, exposure to extreme cold or heat, and bad general living conditions without proper beds, good water, and bathroom facilities.

Perhaps the worst of it would be the mental anguish that Mak points out. I think lack of privacy, forced negative associations, lack of sleep, dictatorial rule, and no contact with home might drive many missionaries over the edge.

I knew how dangerous it was, from having served a mission in Europe. And while I didnt want my kids to go, I didn't dare tell them that. Two of them served stateside. It seemed the "right" thing to do.

I think there's an unwritten rule for missionaries to gloss over any dangers and difficulties they're experiencing when writing to their families back home. I'll bet most missionaries don't tell their parents if they aren't getting enough to eat or other problems they're encountering. It's easier for parents to ignore that their sons are in danger if they're only hearing about marvelous spiritual experiences from their missionaries.

most of the elders I knew on my mission came from families where neither of their parents had served a mission. Often, no one in their family had ever served a mission. I don't think many of our parents really understood the lack of organization and safety measures in place in our mission and the missionary program in general. I'm not sure how much difference it would have made, given that most of those people were really true believers, but my experience is that most members know next-to-nothing about what missionaries really do, how they really live,how loosely organized missions are, etc.

Unless I see actual evidence of this, there is no reason to believe it. Traveling the world can be semi-dangerous, but only if you aren't prepared and aren't very smart about it.

My guess is that missionary work is about the same.

People do get hurt when traveling, but it isn't a huge issue for most people. Statistics with missionaries are probably similar.