"Adultery, fornication, homosexual or lesbian relations, and every other unholy, UNNATURAL, or impure practice are sinful."

What if you have the view that Masturbation is totally natural? Or other practices between you and your spouse?

Again, they can't answer the question directly for some reason.

CHI BOOK 2, section 21.4.5

Basically any sexual practice that won't result in future tithe payers.

LMAO!!! Sooo true though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 09:14PM by melissa3839.

I do think masturbation is perfectly natural. I really don't mean to be too graphic here, so excuse me, and I will do my best to keep it professional-- but the proof that masturbation is natural to me, is in the way the female body was designed.

Women have the "clitoris" which is on the outside of the body, and easily reachable by hands. It serves ABSOLUTLEY no other purpose, other than sexual stimulation. If we really were not meant to masturbate, I feel that the clitoris would be located just on the inside of the vagina, where it could best be stimulated through penetraiton. Most (not all but most) women can only achieve orgasm through the clitoral stimulation-- not from vaginal penetration. And during (heterosexual vaginal) intourcourse, it is rather difficult to stimulate that part of the woman's body, without the use of hands. Thus many women who don't, often go without an orgasm. True the man could do this for his female partner, but honestly, its a bit of an awkward bend of the arm, when you are in the church's internationally encouraged "misisonary position".

I actually brought up this issue in the hidden access thread (access with moderator permission only) "adult" section of the regular LDS forum, and nobody seemed to have a clear answer for it.

So again, because of our design, I believe it is natural.

As for other activities, I think that as long as its just you by yourself, or the couple are adutls, and niether have any personal issues (mental, emotional, or physical) with the sexual activity they are involved in involved in--- then its their own business.

I really do think its HIGHLY inappropriate, sick, and overstepping the bounds by quite alot, for religious leaders to ask loving and happy couples what they do in the bedroom. Or ask individuals if they masturbate. Its really none of their business. If a person or couple are having sexual issues, they should discuss it with a couple's therapist, or a doctor. NOT a religious leader.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 09:50PM by melissa3839.

Oh, and one other conversation we had in that forum, was when a husband came in there, confessing that because of his job, he was often away from his wife for months at a time. He said he was really in love with his wife, and often daydreamed about beign intimate with her. And he and his wife would both... erm... "interact" over the phone together, as a way to make up for it. I personally thought that was a very reasonable alternative to cheating, or going totally without.

But everyone else there jumped all over him, saying it was breaking the law of chastity, and it was a big sin. Saying he should just pray until "those feelings" went away.

And I thought... "Those feelings"???? What do they mean?!! He was having romantic thougths/feelings about his WIFE! How is that a terrible thing? That's sweet! Most guys think about other women, lol.

It was then I realized that those people had a SICK and unhealthy attitude, about even loving marital sex.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 09:54PM by melissa3839.

Early in our marriage, my wife and I went and saw an LDS marriage counselor.

We were both very surprised when he said it was kosher to have naked pics of DW to ... er ... take care of those "feelings" while on the road.

And he also said, vibrators were okey-dokey.

This guy was righteous priesthood holder as far as we could tell. TOTALLY REASONABLE.

So, there are some LDS people out there with common sense.

There's a really interesting discussion of the term "unnatural" in John Boswell's book, _Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality_. He discusses different ways of understanding the term that were current in the early centuries of Christianity and pretty much destroys any possibility of objecting to homosexuality on the grounds that it is "unnatural."

If we weren't intended to masterbate, we would have been designed with arms that were cut off at the elbows.

Nature / evolution will find a way...

Haha, good point!

God is a supernatural being, revelation is a supernatural process. Supernatural meaning what? Not part of the natural order?
Yet you want to claim--through an unnatural process with an unnatural being--that unnatural = bad?

Also, if they really think that any sex that deosn't result in the creation of a baby is bad (i.e. sex with birth control, masturbation), then I guess having sex while you are ALREADY PREGNANT, or if you are totally infertile, or past menopause should be ruled out too, hm?

They teach that "unnatural" things are bad but according to the Book of Mormon "natural" is bad too.

"For the NATURAL man is an ENEMY to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord" (Mosiah 3:19)