I am a reluctant Mormon who particpates only becuase of pressure from my wife. I was stunned today when our Bishopric read a letter from the First Presidency over the pulpit. In effect, the letter said that Church Headquarters does not have the time to respond to member inquiries about doctrine and personal needs, and that "all correspondence from invidividuals will be returned to the appropriate Stake President for action."

If they don't have time to take care of members, what are they doing there in Salt Lake? Too busy managing all that money?

Yep, and also that they don't want to make any statements on doctrine that they will have to backtrack on. Also, they don't know the answers themselves because they don't get revelation.

Just don't bother them. They're too busy making real estate deals and crunching numbers.

Plus, ain't none of them spring chickens anymore.

when they stop to think about it. There's no one serving the members- they are busy cleaning the latrines in addition to their other callings.

I think the heart of this hot mess is a flipflop. When I asked my bishop, back in the 70's-80's, a doctrinal question, he would give me his opinion and then suggest I write to Salt Lake for a more "complete" answer.

My girlfriend and I both wrote to a general authority on the subject of child support. Income for me as a single mom or no? She was told no, it was his tithed-on already money to support his kids. I was told yes, it was my main income.

So much for a complete answer. The only, repeat ONLY reason TSCC changes anything is that it isn't working to their advantage anymore. So, logically, one can assume that since the top guy is evasive, they are no longer providing clarity on doctrinal questions and THAT my friends, is the end of the long wait for a real modern revelation. Ever.

(not of course that there ever was one....)

Anagrammy

This was standard operating procedure long before I left the church, probably before I served my mission even.

Tyson

There have been too many times when the answer they gave to a question came back to bite them on the butt. So they sit in their ivory tower and let the local leaders answer the questions. If the local leader messes up then the "brethren" can wiggle out of any tight corners and dump it all on the poor local leader.

If something that some flunky Bishlop says causes a media stir, they will just tell the media, "The Bishlop should have referred the question to us. We don't teach that." Of course their statement to the media will NEVER clarify what they actually DO teach, because that could could back to bite them. They'll just say that whatever the flunky said was incorrect.

6 times per year (gen conf, stake conf, ward conf)x2 to support them as prophets, seers and revelators, and then send in your tithing check. Just don't expect them to answer questions or account for the money they receive.

What a freakin' scam they've got going.

You are being exploited by the Mormon "church". They want your money and your free work plus any kids you can produce as future tithe payers.

You would be wise to drop Mormonism.

But this "too busy to answer letters from members" stuff has been around for a long time.

I remember wondering, even back when I was a TBM, that if this was the policy, then where did Pres. Monson get his stories that started out with "I got a letter from a sweet sister just last week. . .???" How did HER letter get through when nobody else's did?

Excuse me, is there some cog-dis here??

Every time a GA during Conference tells about reveiving a letter from a memeber, I think to myself, how can this be?

My guess is that a few letters are screened and passed on to them, to make for some good faith promoting stories.

Ever since this latest reminder was read in our ward, I've been wondering if my memories of letter-readings in GC were completely wrong. I'm pretty sure Gordon B. read one a few years ago.

Anyway, I think Wonderer is probably right. Maybe if a GA knows in advance of a topic he wants to address in the future, he asks for a few relevant letters to be sent his way, then responds, and takes the one with the most fitting outcome to General Conference. If the Brethren haven't already thought of this, I might write to the GA's to suggest this technique . . . wait, I don't guess they'd ever get my letter . . . oh, well.

Can anyone find any stories of where Christ was too busy to hear from his followers?

is it possible for you to get a copy of that letter, a title or a date?

this is nuts! =)

Letters from the First Presidency:
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/letters/

http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/60087/From-the-First-Presidency.html
Member communications with Church Headquarters

In a letter dated Oct. 6, the First Presidency wrote:

Dear Brethren and Sisters:

Members of the Church continue to place telephone calls and write letters to Church headquarters about doctrinal issues and personal matters. By reason of their callings, local leaders are entitled to the spirit of discernment and inspiration to enable them to counsel members within their jurisdiction.

Accordingly, correspondence from members will be referred back to their local leaders for handling. Stake presidents who have need for further clarification about doctrinal or procedural issues may write to the First Presidency in behalf of their members.

It is our desire that all members will feel they have the support and guidance they need; however, all things should be done in wisdom and order. We believe that both members and local leaders will be blessed as they pray and counsel together in an effort to resolve matters of concern to them.

Signed by the First Presidency:

Thomas S. Monson

Henry B. Eyring

Dieter F. Uchtdorf

----------

so local leaders have basically just been upgraded to the status of general authority concerning church doctrine. what a genius way to push the responsibility further away, making it even easier to blame "wrong/contradictory" answers on the little guy =)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2010 05:55AM by Nick Humphrey.

he threw this at me:
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ex/18/13-26#13

except for the fact that you cant even bring the hard cases to "moses" now, and moses was only one person. the general authorities are how many people now?

We are supposed to follow the prophet
The prophet is to busy to listen to us
We should follow his good example and be too busy to listen to him.

I'm just sayin'

One was to de Jager (sp?) about the bogus fictional story he passed off in General Conference as an actual ancestor of his. I informed him of my disappointment especially in light of just how little time had passed since Paul Dunn had been caught weaving his fictional tales as real. His reply from South America was oh so sweet and apologetic that I had misunderstood his statements (bullcrap).

The second letter was to Monsoon himself (before he was THE grand profit poobah). That letter concerned the fact that at the time of the dedication of the Bountiful temple a grand drawing was held for (and I quote the LDS literature): "Only Davis County members" (okay maybe 15% of the entire membership of the church). This drawing was to decide a) who actually got in the very room where the dedication was taking place and b) who got into the temple at all during the dedication, and c) who the less-blessed were that could observe closed-circuit from the Valley Music Hall. We happened to be lucky enough to get seating in the very room with Monsoon (oh how special we were) and indeed, Monsoon's address before the actual dedication was about the "general membership" of the church and the (his phrase): "church royalty" ... real stalwarts from very well connected families ... and, indeed, Monsoon just happened (by chance, as he pretended) to see one of these members of "church royalty" before him in the audience and had them stand, and gave them sufficient kudos to last them the next decade, but Monsoon happened to let it slip that this example of "church royalty" was from Utah County (!!!) ... Ummm, wait a minute, I have a First Presidency letter back at home that assured me that there was no favoritism in getting Temple seating and that ONLY Davis County members need apply. The next General Conference talk by Monsoon was also dedicated to speaking about "church royalty" ... which really ticked this TBM off, and I wrote the letter asking for clarification of "royalty" and the truthfulness of the First Presidency letter to members of the church in Davis County. Monsoon responded that yes, there really was "royalty" in Mormonism (not even a hint of denying it as I expected him to do). He stated that's just the way the church worked and no the First Presidency DIDN'T lie in their letter (just left it like that -- a testimony). I had the letter of the FP next to me as I read Monsoon's letter. I knew what was "true" then and Monsoon's response contained none.

Both of these were tough pills for one Davis County non-royalty TBM.

You should post a photocopy on the Internet.

... I held a cleansing book burning several years back where I burned most things "mormon" in my house but I don't recall throwing those letters out and I know just where I filed them ... so I'll find them if not burned.

I'll take my punishment as it comes for this....

Many people on this board work for corporations. How many times do you feel the need to write a letter to the CEO and expect to get an answer back. How many times does a lineman at Ford or GM write a letter to the upper eschelon and get a response. Usually, there is a chain of command. It does keep order.

I own a small business with multiple locations. I would not be pleased if a part time worker called me to get clarification on an issue. This is what I have hired store managers and assistants for . Now, I do spend time in the stores and take time to talk with the part time help and if they have a question at that time, I answer it.

Even with what we consider a small activity rate of 3 million, just say 5% wrote a letter to get a response, that's 150,000 letters. I'm not saying they shouldn't write, but if it is an answer that can be handled locally, then it should be sent to the local leader. All of their mail is screened just as in ALL organizations of any size.

Okay, now for clarification. I denounce the church for its fraudulence.. Let the floggings begin.

What you state is logical and is very likely why the church does it the way it does.

But.

It reveals the church is run like a business. Not a church. A business. Also, members are obviously writing to Salt Lake because they AREN'T getting the answers from their so called local bishop or stake president. It strikes me as part of their larger grand design. Provide no answers and be held accountable for saying nothing while at the same time standing twice a year on their rameumptom pretending to say something.

Exactly - what recourse do members have if they get no answers from the SP, have legitimate concerns over leadership, or have completely inept local leaders? You write to the GA's, they send your concern back to the SP that you feel is inept/uninspired/untrustworthy/unqualified, and the SP does what at this point? Bring you in for a court of love hearing?

...Besides, how can a Bishop or Stake President, who is entitled only to inspiration relating to their specific calling, possibly speak for the whole church when it comes to church doctrine?

Having said that, I know there are innumerable Mormons who absolutely worship the General Authorities, and think they've got to go right to the very top for inspired answers. I really do understand how bothersome it must be for the Apostles to get all these pesky, trivial letters from the gullible, know-nothing members who each want their own private little answer for each of their own private, little, trivial, questions or problems.

How tempting it must be to say, "Ouit bothering me and just pay your tithing!"

They do not receive compensation for services rendered. Rather, their contributions keep the church going. As an employee I do not expect feedback from the guys who call the shots; I work for them. I do, however, expect such feedback from the heads of companies in which I am invested. They work for me.

It's a good point that there is a chain of command.
However, the things that GA's actually spend their time on gives you a very clear idea as to what is important to them.

1. Writing for the Ensign etc
2. Meeting with the presidencies of programmes
3. Temple groundbreaking and dedication
4. Conference talks
5. Erm... Okay I'm struggling now

Anyone know what else they do during their full time role?

It's efficient at taking your money. They don't miss a hitch there but when it comes to finding someone who can actually answer your questions, they bug out like a ferret.

They need to hire more people with "answers". Perhaps they can outsource to India. :-)

"Hello Please? We are answering your eternal questions with love."

When I was a bishop I was designated and told that I was a "spiritual shepherd" to the people. That I would minister to them, and support them temporally and spiritually.

I'm pretty sure that General Authorities want the little local mules to do the heavy lifting, and not bother them in the ivory tower as they decide which new condos or mall to build next.

If the big mucky-mucks are too busy to hear from me then I am too busy to give them any of my time or money. So I will not be attending sacrament meeting, cleaning the church lavatory, or paying any tithing money. In other words goodbye forever.

Truthseeker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a reluctant Mormon who particpates only
> becuase of pressure from my wife. I was stunned
> today when our Bishopric read a letter from the
> First Presidency over the pulpit. In effect, the
> letter said that Church Headquarters does not have
> the time to respond to member inquiries about
> doctrine and personal needs, and that "all
> correspondence from invidividuals will be returned
> to the appropriate Stake President for action."
>
> If they don't have time to take care of members,
> what are they doing there in Salt Lake? Too busy
> managing all that money?

They read it in my ward yesterday as well. They had the authoritative dull one read it. Lol, he read it with such conviction it almost sounded like pure malice. I noticed only a few people looked up or even expressed an emotion. Same with the self-awareness group bit. Just blank expressionless faces, the ones that looked up quickly erased it from their faces.

I hope this will come back and bite them in the ass somehow.

And they wonder how GBH can say "I don't know that we teach that." It's because they're out of touch and have very little clue about their constituents.

Reminds me of the '80's demise of Harley Davidson. They'd sold out to AMF and in a very short time sales plummeted and the company was on the verge of bankruptcy. Why? Because they'd lost touch with Harley riders. G. Willie Davidson pulled a bold move and bought the company back from AMF with a management buyout and some steel-balled investors.

What was the first thing he did? Took a tour of the U.S. on Harleys to ask riders what they wanted from Harley. This has become an annual trek for Harley management and they KNOW what we riders want. The company is rock solid now and so is the procuct.

The GA's don't give a rat's rectum what their "riders" want. Just shaddap, do what the SP tells you and pay your tithing. It's no wonder the church is on shakey ground and they get all shook up when they find out the prophet says "I don't think we teach that" when the "riders" just heard it last Sunday in church.

Ron

With all of us former members writing in questions "for and in behalf of XXXX".

We could single out somebody that really bugged us when we were members, send in a letter from them asking really inane questions.

Oh, wait. That would be considered identy theft, so we can't do that, but wouldn't it be great to flood their offices with hundreds of extra letters a week that cost the morg $$$ in employee expense to forward the letter back to the bishop?

Oh wait. They probably have some poor dolt member doing a "service mission" doing that task and it wouldn't cost them a damn thing.

Never mind.

I would still like to start a letter writing campaign of resignations for and on behalf of .... I think about 10 letters coming back to a bishop would be hilarious. Find someone who is semi-active and submit away or even the most dedicated front and center pew person. Getting your hands on a ward roster shouldn't be too hard. Last time I was active (4 years ago), they hung on the wall outside the bishop's office.