I had some friends who'd just joined the church in 2004. They were living in (built in 1970s) apartments that even had nice small fireplaces in the living rooms.
They invited some people from church to come over for dinner. They came, but didn't want to come ever again because their 'neighborhood' (the apartments surrounded by residents, churches and businesses) was 'too dangerous' and they feared their Cadillac would be stolen or vandalized.

The ridiculous thing was, there was NO CRIME in that part of town!

My friend was hurt by their snobbishness. I suggested she get a "pimp kit" for the caddys the members drive; complete with furry dice and other fancy accessories to place in their car while they visit her.

Anyone else have members who wouldn't HT or VT or socialize because they were scared of your neighborhood when it was within the 'ward boundaries'???

with mormons. I live in a very, very middle class--maybe even lower middle class neighborhood. Mormonism in this neighborhood is entirely different than anything I've ever experienced in my entire life. There are those few who make life miserable for the rest, but for the most part, the people in this ward are good people. There isn't the "keeping up with the Jones'" bullshit, etc.

My daughter went back to the LDS church in this ward. I have told her it wouldn't have been that way anywhere else I've ever lived. She was rather shocked when she started going to other wards. She doesn't like mormons much--and it wasn't because of the neighborhood we live in.

BUT I grew up in a ward like that. When my parents both died--they had been divided into a wealthier ward, but my parents lived very frugally and lived in the same small home they bought when I was 3 years old (I've 54). They were farmers also and it showed. When my mother died, the new bishop came by to see my dad. My dad said, "He thinks I'm poor." My dad owned a lot of land and nobody knew.

Mormons are all about status.

I remember telling my boss that the "farmer" actually a rancher who'd just left was very wealthy. She couldn't figure it, I knew by his boots! Newish grey ostrich skin!

"Farmers" when left to their own devises tend to as a group, stay out of debt and die very wealthy because they take care of their land and other property. It is amazing how much they will have squirreled away for protection.

The very fact a Mormon 'thinks you're poor' says a lot! Especially a Mormon's definition of poor. It's almost laughable to watch them stress over how their car, house and etc. looks!

The righteous will prosper, according to the BoM. So if you're living modestly, it must be because you're unworthy of the blessings of material prosperity.

But it's not surprising, because Mormonism is essentially a gospel of social climbing. They're the chosen people. God likes them best and has special presents for them. They're headed for the VIP room in the most exclusive gated community in the sky, away from the riffraff.

I think you have a valid point. My father several years back was asked to HT the people in the Section8 apts. No one else would visit those people. He agreed and took along my nephew.
He always taught us to not judge others and never pointed out what others had or didn't have.
WE also were not taught class envy.

He home taught those people and brought there needs to the attention of the ward members and bishop. You can guess how much help they were.
So he started looking around at things he didnt need anymore and
my nephew and sister spent hours collecting things old and new.

Some of them I am sure were just going from area to are to get free stuff. He was told that. He said that is not my concern. Seems like after a few years they changed his route. He quit hometeaching.

And Cl2, my folks still live in the house I was raised in(54). And never were more than middle class. Our family was sort of treated like they treat poor people.

In N. Va where I live, almost all of the Ward lives in newish townhouse developments or humongous McMansions in gated communities that are kind of Mormon ghettos. I live in a plain vanilla public neighborhood no one cares about. I sense under the surface some envy and social tension between the two larger groups. Most of the townhouse dwellers are the rabid Glen Beck types while most of the McMansion squires are folks that did or do make their fine livings off the government tit as contractors or present/former owners of businesses that serve the govt so they tend to keep their mouth shut. I tend to get on better with the McMansion set as they tend to be smarter and have some background in issues besides right wing politics and survivalism.

This was back in the'50s and '60s. Everyone lived more modestly back then. I think there were only a handful of LDS families who weren't first-generation transplants, there because of government jobs. But I remember feeling a little uncomfortable in homes of members who were slightly lower on the economic scale. I think it's a common feeling -- people "poorer" than ourselves sort of disrupt our personal reality bubbles.

When I was a newly married/new-convert in 2005, my ex-DH and I were both military. We were enlisted and lived pretty well within our means off base in a modest townhome (not low income by any means).

This was a military ward. It made NO sense to us to purchase a home at that point when we never knew when we would be PCSed (change duty stations).

I was already a target because I was 22 and we had NO plans to have any children in the next five years, plus I worked outside the home, plus I was in the military. So a quadruple whammy.

Well, when we first moved into the ward, we were asked to what I assumed was a dinner party. I was raised and knew to always bring something to the party. We went over to these people's house along with about four other couples. We were quizzed about our life. I noticed they lived in a McMansion, but oddly, had little to no furniture! What they did have was extremely old. (nothing wrong with that, just odd for the house size). A few weeks later, we reciprocated in our townhome. Modest size, but modest to nice furnishings. Well within our means and we were living debt free.

They looked SO SO SO far down their noses at us and avoided us at church after that.

Fast forward about three months, we begin to learn that these "snobs" were in debt up to their eyeballs and accumulating more by the minute.

Fast forward a year. The main couple was asked into the bishipric. I told DH that was effing ridiculous considering they couldn't even manage their finances and how they looked down their noses at us because we lived within our means and were comfortable.

All about the LOOKS not the REALITY. In reality, we were a dual income/no kids family that made approximately $75000-$80000 a year. OUr bills total only came to 15% of our income and we had NO debt. SO who was in the better financial situation?

I really think after looking back on the situation, that the women were JEALOUS that we could take off for the weekend on little trips to the mountains, or afford to pretty much eat out whenever we wanted, or to go do and buy pretty much what we wanted with cash. We were not strapped down by massive amounts of debt or hoards of children at a young age. We were both educated and made decent money.

I live in a MC mansion(it's 30 years old)....I think how people view others is taught. Or if someone makes good money and tries to buy a lifestyle, it can change how they view themselves.

WE haven't changed how we act towards people. But I have found others expect us to act wealthy.
DH was raised to begrudge others wealth, I was not. So it's been interesting to watch how we both view society.

I have noticed some of our neighbors tend to think alot of themselves. They are trying to buy a lifestyle. And I am sure it's on credit. I suppose they think they are better than each other cause they can "give" more of there money to the church.

The idiot that pays the most tithing wins.
But they went after a family in our HOA pretty good a few years back cause of his yard. 11 kids and they were on a witch hunt to get them out of the neighborhood. There biggest crime was his work trailer visable in driveway and toys left out in the yard.
If folks would spend more time concentrating on there own problems and trying to better there selves and less on looking down noses the world would be a much better place.

I am lucky I had the parents I have growing up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2011 12:44PM by beansandbrews.

A few years ago, our stake gerrymandered the ward boundaries in such a way that created more socio-economic diversity within the wards. There were women who flat-out refused to accept VT or other assignments beyond certain streets.

Does your stake happen to be in Idaho? I saw that happen a few years back... lots of families going inactive because they didn't want to go to church "with THOSE people." That's christlike charity right there.

I'm not from the area but I've known a family in Idaho Falls who were obsessed with the down-and-out from Rigby. I actually couldn't tell one backwater apart from the other. Both seemed so lacking in style and substance. I still wonder if people in Rigby hated Idaho Falls as much.

I grew up in Idaho, but this particular episode was in Colorado.

The hilarious thing about all of this is that President Hinckley(or some other GA) always counseled to "avoid debt like the plague." I'm pretty sure said counsel still applies to TBMs today.

Funny thing is I've been in quite a few of the better homes in the ward. Vast majority of them have crappy second hand furniture, nothing on the walls, Everything worn and threadbare. Maybe a temple picture on the wall.

Barely making ends meet at the cool address.

I've seen that, but more in the YSA ward where my ex-husband's former roommate went to church. He was one of the few who didn't mind being HT's for those who lived in poorer neighborhoods. The "family" ward my ex and I went to wasn't as socioeconomically diverse, as it was in a middle class neighborhood which does include apartments.

My former MIL even went into foreclosure because she bought more house than she could afford so she would keep up with the Smiths. Before she got the house she did, she was shunned by her old ward because she and my ex lived in the poorer area within the boundaries.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2011 04:11PM by adoylelb.

Not long ago a school district split in two because, in my opinion, some of the parents didn't want their kids going to school with *those* people. I'm sure they prayed about it first.

I think you mean the school district in Jordan/Sandy.

Not to defend the people in the wealthier eastern section, but I recall reading news articles stating that people in the eastern section had been voting yes on bond issues to raise revenues for schools and people in the western section were voting them down.

I don't know how much of this was economics (easterners could afford tax increases more than those in western portion of district) versus politics: perhaps people in the east were relatively progressive and perhaps those in the west were typical Utah "not another dime" conservatives. Normally, people vote more conservatively as income rises, but hey this is Utah and perhaps those with higher incomes are better educated and appreciate the importance of good schools.

The new eastern Jordan/Sandy district (whatever it's called) is also the one whose superintendent introduced new honors diplomas with higher course requirements that make released-time Seminary impossible. Such students will have to go to early morning or zero period Seminary in order to earn all the required credits. TSCC protested that it didn't have the resources to add early morning classes, but the superintendent did not back down and took the attitude that "no one is FORCED to earn the honors diplomas, it's only an option". TSCC caved in and began to offer early morning Seminary to those working toward the honors diploma.

There may be a lot of TBMs in that district, but they still supported the supertintendent versus TSCC when the church initially complained. Ultra TBMs would never have supported a superintendent over church leaders. That story convinced me that the split in that district had at least something to do with people in the east placing a greater value on education.

Seems to me from growing up in the Cottonwood area that the east side west side thing is largely about income. And the folks on the east side decided they wanted the money to stay on the east side.

To hell with the needs of the students out west.
Of course this is also the mentality of the folks who vacated a mall tore it down with building boom dreams.
Now sits a field of weeds.

Mormons reject protestantism but fully embrace the protestant work ethic. I am still trying to figure out which of the beatitudes promotes the acquisition of wealth.

I never saw anything of the kind in Spain. Admittedly, we don't have really dangerous neighbourhoods, but I remember members in a 2000 sq foot apartment in the poshest neighbourhood of Madrid organizing some activity in their spacious living room. Among the visitors were a couple who organized the same thing on other days with other mishies. I went to the activity/lesson/indoctrination/bring an investigator godfest at the other adress too: it was a few rooms in a tiny shack in the middle of a post-industrial suburb with high unemployment. The rich folks were there too once, and complimented the residents with a wall they had decorated with photos of temples. It sounded genuinely nice. Of course, the ward was so big in size that its one million inhabitants included the royal family, leafy suburbs, condos around a swimming pool, working class exurbs and gypsy squatting camps. What do you expect when a few from every area meet each other every sunday? At one point a taxi driver was bish and a university rector his second counselor.

In fact, members were always instructed to be frugal and save. No keeping up with the Joneses, but self-reliance.

My wife at the time said that many of the women in the ward refused to cross a certain street to visit teach. It was hard to find people to visit teach women who lived in that area.

I don't mind saying that this was the Maple Grove Ward, in case anyone is wondering.