A few days ago, I got into a heated discussion with my parents about the mormon church and how it's all about conformity, obedience, never saying anything bad about the church and paying lots of money. They promptly denied any of that being true. I then asked them how long before I'd be asked to leave if I showed up in tee-shirt and jeans to a ward other than my assigned ward. (I was going for the double conformity issue with that statement.) They said they had had people show up like that to their ward and they were welcomed. Maybe once or twice they would welcome them, but I told them they wouldn't on a continual basis.

My own experience with this happened a couple of weeks after returning from my mission. I knew that it was customary that newly returned missionaries would travel around the stake and speak in each of the wards with a high councilman. I absolutely did not want to do that, so when I was called upon by the stake to speak at a stake youth conference I showed up wearing a nice maroon colored shirt and tie-less. Man, did the member the stake presidency that was running the youth conference get his garments in a wad. He would not let me present my message like that and he wouldn't start the conference until after he dragged me to his nearby home to retrieve a tie for me to wear. He also wanted me to change into one of his white shirts, but fortunately he had the wrong size shirt. The great thing was after that one talk, I accomplished my goal, I was never called again by the stake to give another talk. I also learned that mormons really, really, really care about what you wear to church.

I recently attended a local Christian church to learn about their worship services and many people came in tee-shirts and jeans, including a someone with the following quote on the back of his tee-shirt, "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy - Ben Franklin." I didn't see anyone there that had a problem with his shirt, including the Pastors, but I doubt you'd even get through door of a mormon church while wearing that shirt.

What has been your experience with wearing sub-mormon standard clothes to an LDS church? I'd love to hear what has happened.

My goodness. I guess you missed the revelation that all Mormons should aspire to looking like middle-management in a 50s vision of a staid midWestern insurance firm!

He was always sharply dressed, but the late 50s early 60s style was VERY LARGE shoulder pads under the suit jacket. It reminds me of how the skinny little 12 and 13 year old Jr. boys look like in their football uniforms! LOL!

Well ... my story is a bit different. When I joined TSCC, I was a professional in an office environment. Since I had business suits with skirts (and since I'm an older lady, the skirts went below my knee), I wore them to church. I mean, why would I even *think* to buy a shapeless denim jumper to wear with a white tee when I had perfectly good skirt-suits?

Ha. Little did I know my apparel was as "Sub-Mormon Standard" as a tee promoting the benefits of beer! After the block one Sunday, one of the sisters took me aside and looked at me with pity in her eyes as she said, "You *work*, don't you."

Naive me, I said, "Yeah. ???"

She looked me up and down--at my clothes, I later realized--and said, "I could tell."

WTF?????

Ha. I've had that same thing happen to me at church. I was pulled aside by my RS Pres. Only at the time, I wasn't working. I just don't like to dress like I've given up on life. I guess that's cause for a reprimand?

I've had a similar experience. I wore suits because thats what i look best in. People were always asking me where i worked. They looked confused when i told them.
When i worked i wore scrubs.

I wore a suit one sunday with a pair of heels that were about 2" but no backs on them. You would have thought I walked in wearing a swim suit. LOTS if disapproving looks. One of the teen agers did tell me she thought my shoes were "hot" though. lol

Wow, that really blows my mind.

A suit would be considered completely acceptable attire in any other church.

It's awesome. ;-) I wear my $10 walmart "dress" shoes. That's my dressing up. Other than that, I wear what I always wear. I might choose a nicer pair of my everyday pants than some of my others, but that's about it.

Being a naive convert, I figured nobody cared what anybody wore. [slaps forehead] Was a shock, for sure, to discover how wrong I was. ;-)

I think the right pantsuit can make a woman very sexy. -Can- being the operative word. Cameron Diaz = sexy. Hillary Clinton != sexy. Just my not-so-humble opinion. ;-)

Maybe that was the problem.. you weren't wearing your denim celibacy dress like all the others. Dealing with arousal can sometimes be uncomfortable for guys wearing slacks and stuck sitting in a chapel pew for an hour. You weren't thinking about the most important thing in your universe - your priesthood holder's well-being. ;-)

I should also add to my previous comment by noting that although a suit would be overdressed, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen at my congregation. The beauty of it is you don't *have* to.

I am so glad I'm not mormon anymore.

as I worked in an office up until I got married at age 27. I loved dressing nice. What kills me is to drive down the streets in Utah on a Sunday and see what people wear to church. It just blows my mind. I'm older (54) and somewhat overweight now and still dress nicer than those women do. I just can't understand why they don't dress nicer. If I had the body many of them have, I'd be dressing a lot nicer than they do.

But have you tried buying dresses in Utah? (Well, I don't go to SLC much)--but I try to find my TBM daughter nice dresses for church and it is almost impossible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2011 09:53AM by cl2.

Love the Church I attend....wear what you want. Some people do dress up.....I usually wear jeans, and occasionally a pair of dress pants.

I double dog dare you to wear a shirt to a Unitarian church that says "God, Guts and Guns Made America Great"

I wore PANTS to a funeral before I told anyone I resigned. I expected to get called out on it, but nobody made a peep.

Oh and I am female, or this wouldn't be remarkable.

And it was in the chapel, not the RS room.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2011 09:50PM by WinksWinks.

I once wore a 14kt gold Italian ring on my right hand that someone deemed too large.

During sacrament meeting this old guy reached over, touched it, and disapprovingly went tsk tsk.

The nerve of these people is just unbelievable.

I knew we were inches away from quitting the morg altogether anyway.

But such incidents don't help them retain members, that's for damn sure.

I would have left the imprint of the ring on his forehead!

this is a great experiment you did. i'm laughing so hard. you accomplished something alot of us would love to do!!!!!great job. they got definately got their garments bunched up

...I have some early-1990s goth garb that I used to wear to clubs. This thread makes me want to find a Mormon church and drop in for a Sunday service.

"But...the skirt is as long as Sister Clonechild's, and it has all this pretty lace...and I'm not wearing anything red..."

Wait, red clothes were off-limits? Refresh my memory on the reasoning behind that one please...

I attended a Mormon church as a child in a conservative Eastern state. This may have been more East Coast Republican than Mormon per se, but I was taught that one only wears bright colors if one wants to call attention to oneself, and that to do so in church was not "humble" or "reverent."

This may not have been official Mormon doctrine, but I do remember a lesson in Sunday school about some prophet or elder who had to wear red socks to school because they were the only ones he had, even though he was ridiculed for them, and the bullying made him a stronger person. And I read in a book about the FLDS that Warren Jeffs banned red clothing in the compound, claiming it was only for Jesus. I wondered if this was Mormon dogma or just his twisted idea.

Having said that, most conservative Eastern churchgoers in the late 1970s would not have worn bright colors to church in any denomination. It just wasn't the culture.

My family is from Philadelphia. To this day, my grandmother will wear a hat and gloves to church. Every Sunday. She's Baptist.

This reminds me of the last time my sis and I were roped into attending SM for Mother's Day (we had both resigned years before this.)

I wore a sundress with a cardigan and she comes strolling into the chaple wearing knee high fringed suede boots, black pants, a vest, button down shirt, and a bolo. Did I mention she fits fairly well into flannel-wearing, Toyota driving lesbian stereotype? You could feel the air sucked out of the room when she traipsed in. Good times. :)

August, all the men, including the pastors, wear Hawaiian shirts every Sunday. It's a tradition that goes back at least 15 years. The pastor wore a suit every Sunday all summer, and the other men wanted a break.

http://lds.org/ensign/1995/11/this-do-in-remembrance-of-me?lang=eng

"May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions."

Juxtapose that with D&C 42:40
http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/42.40?lang=eng#39

"And again, thou shalt not be proud in thy heart; let all thy garments be plain, and their beauty the beauty of the work of thine own hands;"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2011 11:36PM by nlocnil.

Okay, I'll be the one who stands up and goes against the grain on this thread. I'm not opposed per se to wearing jeans in church. I do not do that myself, but, wearing ripped jeans or just any old clothes tends to tell me you 'don't care' about personal appearance, which in turn tells me a little about you personally. I watched an episode of the Sopranos last night. Tony was dining in a nice restaurant and noticed a kid wearing a hat. He decided to educate the young lad about being respectful of the environment that he was in.
For those that are still Christian and use the "God just wants me to be in Church, He doesn't care about what I am wearing", I disagree. You do not , do not, do not....... have to wear just a white shirt and tie. You also do not have to dress like a slob or a slut either. I have heard preachers use the come as you are slogan many times. In conjunction, I have also never heard those same preachers teach anything but 'feel-good' sermons. Those are the ones who feed off of your donated dollars - they preach to the donation plate.
I have mentioned before on the board that the worst I ever treated someone in church before was when I didn't let a kid serve the sacrament because he was wearing jeans. I am still friends with the family and have apologized to them for this many times. (they were nice jeans and he was dressed nicely for church)

To quote Mia from above, "I wore suits because thats what i look best in" People show respect for themselves when they try to look their best for themselves.

You aim your comment at "those that are still Christians" and then you demonstrate that you miss the point and the essence of Christianity in its absolute entirety.

By your comment about ripped jeans you are judging and seeking to impart your cultural and religious values. I'm sure there was a comment about judging in Jesus' teaching somewhere. Maybe you should do a little reading.

I think the Jesus judging comment is one of the most misused from the Bible. The world is full of judgements. I don't judge whether one is worthy of God's forgiveness, that is His job. I am not judging on the accountability of sin or lack thereof.
There are indeed many references (several hundred) to judging in the Bible: "The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment." (Psa. 37:30)
I think if you read several of them 'in context' you would see that judging is expected when done not in a malicious way.

You are using a sociopath like Tony Soprano as an example?.....LOL

Hairless Hominids care to much on what the other hominids in the tribe are doing and get restless when one of the members of the tribe starts thinking for themselves and makes their appearance different then other tribe members.

Caring what other people wear to church is silly.

I wore a pair of knee-length board shorts to a young women activity that involved water balloons. In july. In las vegas.

Was told to go home and change into pants. Immediately.

Best part: it was a combined activity with the young men. It was okay for *them* to wear shorts!

This thread reminds me of something that happened to my sister-in-law.

She was visiting her mother, a devout Baptist, and it happened to be Easter Sunday. Her mother asked her to attend Easter service and SIL tried to demur saying she hadn't really brought anything to wear that was church appropriate. Her mother said never mind, come anyway - so she did.

An older lady at the church sniffed and commented "you'd think that people would get dressed up for church on Easter Sunday of all days!"

SIL's mom replied "and you'd think that people would be welcoming to a stranger on Easter Sunday of all days, too!"

Without expectations there is no disappointment.

Tony from the Sopranos has expectations....and the uptight dude that wouldn't let the kid pass the sacrament has expectations....and the old bag at the church making comments on easter sunday has expectations.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could stop expecting to control other people? You want to control what someone else wears?....then, You are living a miserable life. Mormon's are miserable and that is why they desire the illusion of control. Even if it is about someone else's clothes or other petty behaviors.

I'll wear what I want. I'll wear what I am comfortable in. If its hot I wear less and if it's cold I wear more. If I feel colorful I wear colors. If I feel clean I wear white. Whatever.

Live and let live.

"Wouldn't it be nice if we could stop expecting to control other people? You want to control what someone else wears?....then, You are living a miserable life. Mormon's are miserable and that is why they desire the illusion of control. Even if it is about someone else's clothes or other petty behaviors.
Live and let live." upsidedown

Maybe this is why America is turning out the way it is. A lot of parents seem to have this attitude towards raising their own children. I guess it's okay that the guys working at Burger King were joking with eachother and using obscene words loud enough for my children to hear while we were ordering? I judged, spoke with the manager and walked out. I don't know the conversation that followed, but it may have gone your way: 'That guy has no right to tell us how to act'. I guess it's okay for the boys to walk around in public with their pants halfway off their asses so everyone can see their underwear.

"Without expectations, there is no dissapointment" I do have expectations. I have them of my children, I have them of my many employees and I have them of my customers. (Yes, can you believe I have told customers how to act in my place of business) I have corrected children that were not mine when their parents set back with your attitude. I have never been yelled at by any of those parents; they just have a look of embarrasment on their faces that they couldn't control their own kids.

Now, as far as the LDS church goes: They are a cult. They want to control colors and pants vs skirts/dresses. That is beyond reason, but it is not beyond reason that if you want to regularly attend, then you should try and dress appropriately. If a hoodie and jeans are the best you have, then that is more than acceptable. If you are on vacation and decided at the last minute to go with a relative, go ,and you should be accepted without anything being said. But to say, I'll wear what I want when I want is ignorant at best. Although a thong would be accepted as appropriate at the beach (some beaches), I don't think society in general would be accepting (yes, they would judge you and be in the right) in a church/restaurant/grocery store....

if only you'd change one word..."You" should be "I".

"if (I) want to regularly attend, then (I) should try and dress appropriately. If a hoodie and jeans are the best (I) have, then that is more than acceptable. If (I) am on vacation and decided at the last minute to go with a relative, go ,and (I) should be accepted without anything being said."

My approach to attending church is that I dress according to what I think is appropriate. If others do the same, ie: dress according to what THEY think is appropriate, then what is the problem? Others are under no obligation to dress according to what I think is appropriate. No one put me in charge of the dress code.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2011 11:18AM by wine country girl.

I grew my beard back; starting the day I got off the plane from my mission. By the time it came for me to do the post-mission lecture circuit through the stake I had a pretty serious beard. After the first one they asked me to shave. I told them that if I wasn't worthy to address the stake with a beard I wasn't worthy without. They called the next day to tell me they'd taken me off the schedule.

Are you serious???? You were not "worthy" to speak to your fellow church members because of a beard??

JESUS had a beard....so did Brigham Young

nonmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JESUS had a beard....so did Brigham Young

Yeah they hated hearing that line from me. But the beard kept me out of a lot of callings I didn't want anyway.

Grew the beard, got chewed out, someone asked if "there was anything wrong with my testimony?"

All because of a beard.

Our clothing has always been accepted at church--I always wear stylish Anne Taylor shirts and blouses, high sling-back pumps etc., but we started getting the major disapproval from TBM parents and ward members when DH grew a beard. And it's not even a long, crazy beard. It like a number 1 blade overgrow. I cannot tell you the number of comments my mother or his father have made about it. They are also the same ones who complained when our son went through the shaggy hair phase all the kids went through in 2006. One day after hearing another of my visiting mother's snarky comments about both, I snapped, "I think we have bigger problems here than DH's beard or DS's hair." That shut her up.

Last week I attended our ward for the first time in months. My equally apostate son came with me. My wife is on the fence and ready to leave but trying to do it quietly but also not push our other kids either way, let them make up their own minds. We went last week just because it was the primary program and the youngest 2 were in it.
I wore a blue oxford with a sweater over it, no tie. My son wore a plaid flannel and jeans. People came out of the woodwork to shake our hands and say, "It's so nice to see you". In retrospect we probably could have avoided having to talk to so many people if we had just worn white shirts and ties rather than our apostate "uniforms".

A new guy started attending our ward, he was very, very poor, living in a hostel, but one of the nicest guys I'd met. He used to come to church is a green hoodie and jeans, every sunday.
Then, a member of the bishopric asked one of the YSA to take him for a new suit and he would give her the money back.
She of course, told every YSA in the ward that she was taking this guy for a new suit courtesy of the ward.
I thought this was SO out of order. I can't imagine how embarrassing that must have been for him, and I don't believe that the church should take it upon themselves to decide what a person should and shouldn't wear.

Elaine Dalton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then, a member of the bishopric asked one of the
> YSA to take him for a new suit and he would give
> her the money back.

He's living in a hostel and the “bisho-prick” thinks he needs a $200 suit? How many meals would that buy for green hoodie dude? Yeah, dress him up nice so he can sit there and look like the rest of us but still be hungry and homeless!! Unbelievable!!
If that had happened in my ward I’d wear a Goodwill hoodie and jeans to church every week from then on.

On my mission in Bolivia it was customary for us missionaries to buy a white shirt for our male, adult converts. We always felt such puffed up pride to see our latest prize looking just like all the rest of us. So, so stupid.

My point is this was in BOLIVIA...a third world country where these converts were living in mud brick huts. Yet somehow we thought the best, most appropriate gift we could give them was a white shirt!?!?

just so you know....

Benjamin Franklin was absolutely correct and is a prophet in my eyes...:)

awwwwwww come on, doncha know that in the first century church everyone wore their best togas and finest gladiator sandals to church? yeah, they wanted to stick out so that they could be found, arrested and thrown to the lions, but heck, they sure were dressed to the nines to be a coliseum spectacle.

***************************************************

I don't care what you wear as long as your private body parts don't fall out of your clothing.

After what we have been through, I am more concerned about how dressed up your heart/mind is than your body. I am more concerned about how people are going to treat my family and myself than if they could get into the local country club.

Which at this point, that is how I see most churches. Country Clubs. You have to meet this criteria and that criteria to be accepted into their club.

We were down south, Augusta Ga, years ago and went to a Southern Baptist church and the very first day, a man at the pulpit looked at my husband who wasn't wearing a tie and denounced him for it. Yeah, it is okay to embarrass a new person the very first time they go to your church, that is okay but it is not okay not to wear a tie. Something wacky there my friend.

On the little discussion pamphlets that they do with investigators, they actually TELL you (via suggestion, of course) what the expected attire is for men and women. That should have been a red flag to me and I so missed it.--edited here, the LDS missionary pamphlet...for the 'discussions'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2011 08:48AM by familyfirst.

I look at all the rules, ALL of them, in a very black and white way. if you're in, be in - wear the white shirts and ties, or boring ladies dresses (thankfully, the ward I grew up in apparently didn't mind a little diversity when it came to dresses), don't drink coffee or go to church smelling like an ashtray - but if you're out, then stay home!

Maybe it's because I'm fully out and have zero desire to be a part of TSCC even for social reasons that it's easy for me to take this position but I have never quite understood the people who try and buck the system when the system is A. voluntary, and B. never going to be bucked into change.

A friend of mine (who was mosly inactive but conflicted, I guess) let her daughter go to church in a cheerleader's costume skirt over a pair of jeans and a t-shirt. Why?! You *know* you're just setting her and you up for the whispers and judgments, so what's the point? Personally, I just stay home and wear whatever the hell I want.

Again, maybe I take this position because of my total lack of testimony, and I would feel differently if I believed, but really wanted to wear slacks to church.

You wouldn't be asked to leave; that's too direct. You would be kindly directed by the RS President or EQ that your dress could be more "appropriate". Mormons prefer the passive-aggressive approach. They can't be accused of telling people what to do, just
of gently pointing them in the right direction.

Mormon meetings are religious-themed board meetings, and you wouldn't go to a board meeting in jeans, would you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2011 09:27AM by axeldc.

Disapproving looks will happen if a person shows up in jeans. I know for a fact many people were driven away from church b/c they were made to feel inferior. Some of these people were very poor and simply did not own or could not afford nice clothes.

...when my father was a bishop. A somewhat plus-sized and very bosomy teen girl in the ward was in the habit of wearing floor-length hippie chick dresses with scooped necklines. A bit too much cleavage. Dad, embarrassed, suggested that since the dresses were longer than necessary, maybe she should use some of the excess fabric on the top part.

But at least I was out of the church before the white shirt mania spread. I got grief from guys my age for wearing "weird" clothes (like a yellow shirt) but none from leaders. It just wasn't an issue.

One thing I do love about my TBM DH is his refusal to wear white shirts to church every Sunday. He's got all sorts of shirts--yellow, orange, dark blue, brown, black, purple, tan and red--and he's never received any flack that I know of. In fact, one Sunday he wore a bright yellow shirt and matching tie, and the bishop was at the posdium welcoming everyone, and he even complimented my DH and said he looked like a ray of sunshine. Now that was cool.

Where I live way up north, the climate is usually winter ten months of the year, hee hee. Therefore, I love wearing pants to church and I've never gotten any grief either. In fact, my DH got me some clothes form Afghanistan for women that has a long blouse and matching pants and I goet lots of compliments on those too.

I guess it depends on the ward. Mine is outside the MorCor.

ARG! TSCC is such a CULT! I wonder what would happen if people decided to occupy a ward with jeans and t-shirts on? That would be awesome.

In the ward I attended, most of the women and teenaged girls wore the same church "uniform."

Shapeless, frumpy denim jumper --a Frumper.
Chunky black casual sandals without socks.

As long as it was a dress and not pants, most of the women thought that they were dressed up. Instead it looked like the skirted equivalent of sweatpants.

All the uptight people should attend a Catholic church in Santa Cruz, CA. Lots of flip flops, shorts, tank tops, sun dresses and jeans.

We moved to a new ward while going inactive, and I tried an experiment: On and off for a couple of months I attended church with my kids in tow. I wore pants. Nice slacks, with white blouses, sweaters, etc. Did my hair and makeup very conservatively and nicely. Minimal jewelry.

No one would look at me, much less talk to me. No one would help if my kids were a handful (a sunbeam and a nursery-age child), and if I dropped things in the hall people would walk right around me, looking embarrassed. No one in the bishopric ever talked to me. I was never extended visiting teachers or a calling.

Then, one Sunday after I'd been absent a couple of weeks, I went again. This time, I wanted to see what would happen if I did my best 50's housewife impersonation. "Big" Mormon hair, much more eye makeup then I'd normally wear, pink lipstick. A standard issue blouse (very For The Strength of Youth), but a couple of buttons undone so you could see a lace camisole underneath, and a below the knee skirt in a very flirty cut. For crying out loud, I even wore pearls. Everything I could do to look feminine, naive, and above all, appropriately submissive.

Did all the same things...brought my kids who are hard to juggle alone, sat in the back of RS, dropped things in the hall on the way out. Totally different experience, and very creepy in it's own way.

I had conversations with members of the bishopric(Bishop said, "I don't remember seeing you here before...you must be new!!!"), and random men from the ward coming up to me and chatting with me, asking if I needed help, where my husband was, etc. People were tripping all over to help with my kids, pick things up if I dropped them, sit by me in sacrament. The middle aged ladies *still* didn't talk with me, but the younger ones suddenly did, and the RS Pres. came over, got all my information, etc.

Never went back to church again.

I'd wanted proof with my own eyes that everyone was as superficial as I hoped they weren't, and I got it in spades that day. It was all the proof I needed that I would only ever be accepted by being a total phoney.