Below, I have included some of your comments on my earlier post in which I was asking for advice from "Combat Vets" on this forum. As you know, you have gone out of your way to insult me on other posts during this past few years.

Every day I wonder if two brave Marines will be visiting me. It's pure hell. I worry about my boy continually. I did not need your vicious attack or your putrid thought regarding my situation. Every week, I receive a chain E-mail from my son's CO. In the e-mail, the CO lists the casualites from the week before, which continues to grow. In the last few months, some Marines have died. Some wounded. Last week, a brave Marine, who celebrated the birth of his first little baby son just a few weeks before he was deployed, lost his life. My son's best friend lost both legs.

Your comments are insulting to me, my son, and to the Marines who are fighting in this war or have every fought in any American war. Shame on you. You really should apologize to me, and every veteran on this forum.

"My intent is not to be harsh. I'm just saying that If you haven't been in those particular shoes, then what comfort can you provide?...... you're best bet is to shut-up and listen. Something you're obviously not very good at. Here's some more harsh reality for you. One of the best ways you could have helped your son is to have provided the means to set his feet along a path that didn't lead to foot soldiering in an unjust war. Now that his mind has been permanently scarred by the atrocities of war you're suddenly willing to help? Little late for that, don't you think? ... Or don't you?"

But do you really think he owes you or anybody else an apology?

If he has to apologize for expressing his opinion, then what exactly is your son fighting for? Oil and Poppies?

Others gave you the same original advice (not included in this current post of yours) that Timothy gave you and you went off on him. I don't care what conversations went on between the two of you before this, he gave you good (original) advice and you swiped at him.

Timothy's original advice:
Sadly, there is none to give.

My intent is not to be harsh. I'm just saying that If you haven't been in those particular shoes, then what comfort can you provide?

Compared to war all other forms of human endeavor shrink to insignificance. The horrors of war are equally over-riding. Regular RFM poster RobertB works with combat vets and can possibly offer greater insight. In my experience, vets don't talk about it amongst themselves and say even less to outsiders. That's because the memories are so disturbing that no one wants to remember much less relive them.

I'm a vet, but not a combat vet. Best advice I can give is to let him talk when he wants to talk and just listen. Again, you likely have no life experience that even remotely compares. Sometimes they just need an ear.

Timothy


Your response:
What can I say...if you and I hadn't have had our battles on this forum in the past...

I would have ignored you, but I know that you know who I am (at least by moniker on this forum).

Listen you...I am his father, and I will try to help my son the best I can. You're not a father, so I guess it's hard for you to understand. I'm not going to robotically listen, without passing on the wisdom of other wiser men and women.

Folks, this man and I have had our rounds. He always try's to make me look stupid and ignorant on this forum. I just think it's a low blow to do so while I have a son who is risking his life for our country, and here I am was simply asking for helpful and friendly advice.

What can I say Timothy, you have balls. Couldn't resist, could ya.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2011 02:05PM by wine country girl.

Despite claims to the contrary, I honestly don't know who this Rod character is or what Finally Free (below) finds so disgusting about my original remarks.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,344938,344975#msg-344975

Rod could be the poster formerly known as experienceheals but the bios don't match. Even so, taking comments out of context to build an imaginary case has a familiar ring to it. In any event, I shall apologize as requested for reasons of good form.

Dear Marines, vets and Rod's son:

I'm very sorry that Rod, whoever he may be, is such a prick.

Love,

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 09:07AM by Timothy.

So many bees buzzing around in bonnets these days.

To clarify, it wasn't your original post in that thread that I have a problem with. It was your response to his comment where he said basically, that he had a history with you and so took your comments negatively.

I thought your initial advice was fine. Good even, but because your prior history with him, I don't think he was going to listen to you and said as much.

You could have just ignored it, you could have just said, "Look, I was just trying to help." You could have pointed out that you were giving the same advice as most other people. You could have done any or all of these things, but you attacked and in my opinion it was over the top. You questioned his fathering and suggested that it was his fault that his son was in danger. He was already down and you kicked him.

That's what I had a problem with.

This has happened to me as well. Call me forgetful but I am not able to remember all of the names and name changes in my history here.

Occasionally, a "stranger" will pop up and say they hate me because a certain number of years ago in a certain situation I was dismissive or course. Not certain, but I think perhaps some posters must keep running written records of slights and slurs and bring them out years later when they're in a bad mood or have provocation.

How does that excuse kicking a man when he's down... He could have said, I don't recall the past conversations your referring too, I was just trying to help...

Instead he chose to say the following... To a man who, as far as I can tell, was hurting and worried about his son:

------------------
From Timothy (http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,344938,346784#msg-346784):
"Here's some more harsh reality for you. One of the best ways you could have helped your son is to have provided the means to set his feet along a path that didn't lead to foot soldiering in an unjust war.

Now that his mind has been permanently scarred by the atrocities of war you're suddenly willing to help?"
------------------

Nothing in Rod's original post suggested that he pushed his son into military service or didn't provide well enough for him so he had no other choice... Nor is there any indication that that he hasn't been helping all along and is now faced with more than he can handle... Nor does Timothy's view of the current war have anything to do with the request for help and advice.

So, What am I wrong about? These are statements that seem to have been meant to hurt where he knew it would hurt the worst, it had nothing to do with "keep[ing] running written records of slights and slurs and bring them out years later"

He is blaming the victim, something that I thought I've seen several posts about recently and have agreed should not happen.

I seem to recall that his son is the one who is suffering.

And there's more to it than simply providing. Has Rod done anything to help terminate these wars?

Likely not. I suspect you haven't either.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 12:47PM by Timothy.

Yes, his son is suffering, his father is trying to help and trying to get advice on how to do that best... Which, I think, is doing more than providing.

But, I see that you are all knowing... You say you "don't know Rod", but you talk about his parenting skills. You now suspect that you know other people's politics and what they've been doing regards to these wars... None of which really helps his son at the moment.

I've said my piece, I only disagreed with your direct attacks against things that I felt weren't justified.

I do thank you for your service, if my life had been different, if I hadn't been in the church, I probably would have served, but I didn't. I am reminded daily that I will never fully understand the horrors that some of our service people are put though. I wish you well...

As I've mentioned many times before, vets don't want medals or parades. We'd just like to see the folks we protect stand-up every once in a while and act like Americans.

Like this gal who was publicly chastised for being a traitor when in fact she was exercising the very rights her son supposedly died for, namely the right of the people peacably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

http://youtu.be/s3PYLJd_Ov0

You're just another taker. The cult doesn't stop anyone from serving. Just another lousy excuse.

Timothy

You know me so well.

It doesn't matter what you think of me, I really don't care...

As for my thanks... Whether you want it or not, anyone who has served has my gratitude.

... its not in my nature to ignore unprovoked attacks on my character.

Maybe that's why I had the courage to serve and you never will.

Let's see, you wrote:

"I have a feeling that if our country was directly attacked in a sustained war on our soil where civilian lives were in danger every day, they wouldn't be saying things like, they only joined because they were poor and uneducated, they joined because they had family issues, they didn't have the means to do anything else... They'll be yelling "Save me first!""

From the previous thread, you somehow managed to miss this little tid-bit of information:

"My son, instead of serving a mission, made his decision to serve in the USMC. The thing above that insulted me and my son, also insulted the USMC in doing so."

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,344938,346901#msg-346901

Those were my options as well. Guess Rod, like my folks, opted out of any plan for me that might include placing a premium on education. Why was that not an option for Rod's son? Had Rod's son gone to college then joined the Marines, he would be an officer which means he wouldn't be foot soldiering cause officers don't do that shit. I wisely joined he Air Force because there ain't no foot soldiering in that particular branch of the service. Got me an edumacation while I was at it too.

Problem with Rod's style of parenting is that he applies his skills after the fact. That's not an insult to him, his son or the Marines. That's just the way it is. Piss-poor parenting ifin' ya axe me!

It doesn't matter if you have family or friends who have served. Unless you have served in any capacity, you haven't a clue.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 12:54PM by Timothy.

i Dont care who ya are..... unless of course you are "free" or Rod!!

edited to say my comment is in reference to this tidbit:
Dear Marines, vets and Rod's son:

I'm very sorry that Rod, whoever he may be, is such a prick.

Love,

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 12:48PM by bignevermo.

My wife is a vet, several of our friends are vets. I didn't know her when she served, but I can see how her and our friends lives were changed due to that services.

Not everyone joins for the same reason. Some do it because they feel they have no choice, some do it out of pride for their country, some do it because of pressure from their parents. Whatever the reason, they are putting their lives at risk to keep us safe. I don't care if people agree with the current wars and action that we are sending our men and women into, those people on the front lines deserve all kinds of respect. If you have a problem with the current military action, take your frustration out on the politicians that put them there, not the men and women that are serving and their families.

I have a feeling that if our country was directly attacked in a sustained war on our soil where civilian lives were in danger every day, they wouldn't be saying things like, they only joined because they were poor and uneducated, they joined because they had family issues, they didn't have the means to do anything else... They'll be yelling "Save me first!"

I read Timothy's statements and was disgusted by them. Was this supposed to be helpful? Was this supposed to be compassionate? No, this was an attack against a father trying to help his son survive with his mind intact, not to mention a father trying to survive himself.

Rod, I don't know you, I'm not familiar enough with your posts to know whether or not we agree on anything else... But, listening to your son has got to be one of the most difficult things that a father can do. There are resources out there that can help you, so that you can be there for your son and know what to expect and how to cope. I don't have the names of them off the top of my head, several people mentioned the VA, I agree, there can be a lot of help found there, I would also suggest contacting your local American Legion as they might be able to point you to local family support groups for people in your situation.

Your son and all the other men and women out there are very much in our thoughts. Good luck to you, and good luck to your son.

Rod,

The advice was pretty similar across the board of us vets and those like RobertB whom work with them on a psychological level. Sit back and listening is the best way to help.

It seems as if you are reading far more into what he wrote. I don't pretend to know the history between you two as I have been off the board for awhile, but I went back and re-read the comments and his were along the same lines as everyone elses.

Keep the focus where it belongs...on your son and his experiences and willingness to share them with you.

War sucks...everything about it sucks. Nothing good comes from it in anyway. Its hard being a parent or spouse going through it, but even more then you can ever understand (unless you have experienced it), it is the hardest being the person going through it.

No amount of outside observance can ever measure up to experiencing it. I have been on both sides of the coin...and there really is no comparison.

I know the pure hell. I had the second worst thing possible happen to me this year. I got that phone call that my spouse was severely injured and to prepare to fly to Germany (6 months pregnant with our first child). I get it...I really do. Its terrible to sit around every second of every day and wonder when that knock or call will come. I watched our best friend's wife become a widow at 29 years old and have a small child that she had to explain why daddy wasn't coming home. It is gut wrenching....

But even with all of that, I knew that no matter how much greiving I was and still am going through, that my spouse needed me to be strong and just listen when and if he wanted to talk...

Just some food for thought...

Your posts from that most difficult time still linger in our hearts.

Take care.

I also replied to you in that thread and I don't believe Timothy was any harsher in tone than I was.

You need to set aside whatever personal feud you have with him on this one.

Besides, even if he were being a jerk, he HAS SERVED and therefore has the right in this particular case to be as much of a jerk as he wishes.

and he was backed up in his advice from the combat vets that posted on the other thread. from what i read ...it seems that you just need to listen and not ask questions of your son. i have a combat vet brother who was a S.E.A.L. and then an EOD MAN AND HE DIDNT REALLY ANSWER WHEN I USED TO ASK HIM ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCES...i dont ask anymore.... i didnt know that it was bad form to ask.... so i think you are a bit out of line on this thread....
just sayin!

... Who gives a s**t?

Is this about you or your son?

Seems to me its your son who's having to deal with more than his fair share of bulls**t. Poor pitiful you? Gimme a break!

You're just using your son's ill-fortune to garner attention for yourself.

As a veteran, I find that most disgusting.

Timothy

BTW I thought your comments were unusually sensitive. :)

Half the lies they spread about me aren't even true!

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 06:57AM by Timothy.

Timothy has been unusually harsh to many people. It is one of the best things about him.

I'm not lying, or even trying to be sarcastic.

As soon as he helped me develop a thick skin I stopped whining about how insensitive he is and started actually listening to what he said. Rod, my suggestion is that you do the same. Develop thick skin and just listen.

However, I do understand that sometimes it feels good to dump some righteous internet message board rage at someone. Rage on Rod, rage on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 12:41AM by snb.

Rod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Every day I wonder if two brave Marines will be
> visiting me. It's pure hell. I worry about my
> boy continually.

It is very hard to live with. My family experienced it when I was a boy and my uncle was serving in Vietnam with the 1st Air Cav. Unfortunately, my grandparents got that visit. Chances are very good you won't but it is possible.

I hope he will come home safe. How much time does he have left in his tour?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 09:43AM by robertb.

My view is there was nothing that bad with the original advice, but considering the circumstances, I think we could stop dogpiling on the OP. He and his son seem to be going through some real problems and he is entitled to be a little touchy.It also sounds as if he and Timothy have some issues which may explain his anger.I've had issues with him too and would prefer that he not post to me especially when I am upset about something.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 04:07PM by bona dea.

... "Who gives a s**t?" moment.

Its my wish that you not respond to any posts, bona dea, as you rarely, if ever, have anything of substance to offer. But that's admin's call so I don't worry too much about it.

Timothy

I read through the entire thread and saw nothing provoking; nothing even insensitive with the original advice.

In my experience, Timothy makes his points in a very pointed, unambiguous way. Blunt, even. If you really think there's a bad history between the two of you, my guess is it's entirely perceived.

What offends me is that you demand an apology from him for giving what I read as good, sound advice on how you can help your son.

But then, this thread isn't really about your son, is it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2011 05:06PM by dressclothes.

what a silly kerfuckle - just sayin'