Someone on Facebook posted a link to a Causes.com page called "Mormons are Christians" today, and I was sitting here just now laughing at it.

http://www.causes.com/causes/36767

The idea is to raise awareness among the rest of mainstream Christendom (whom the Mormon church has a history of disdainfully attacking) that Mormons are Christian too! I suppose this is an important misconception to clarify, as I remember being taught as a Deacon in the 1970s to say "We're not Christian. We're Mormon!" I'm glad the Mormon church has finally found a home.

The first thing you see on the page after the bearded guy in the bathrobe is a "Cause Bulletin" with the words to the hymn "I Believe In Christ." Now, I realize that Mormons might not need to sing "Rugged Old Cross" to prove that they are Christians, but I wish they could find something better than Bruce R. McConkie's terrible hymn. I remember having to sing that as a closing hymn in Sacrament meeting. It's an obtuse funeral dirge of a hymn that would make Jesus long for the cross. I used to have one eye on the hymn book and the other eye on the door.

Clicking on the About tab, I find... quotes from the Articles of Faith written by Joseph Smith! Fail. They currently have 77,629 members and need 22,371 to reach their next milestone, whatever that gets them.

It's good to have a cause.

You'll probably beat their numbers into the ground.

After all, being a Mormon just means believing Joseph Smith was a prophet and following the Book of Mormon and the other supplementary scriptures -- they seem to be doing that all right.

The only criteria for being a Christian (thank you dictionary) is believing and following Christ's teachings. Then again, I'm an atheist, so I think the whole thing is ridiculous, but whatever.

However, I think Mormonism is the antithesis of Christ's teachings. Jesus was about forgiveness. He hung out with the sinners. He produced miracles to feed the poor and, err, wedding guests.

Mormonism is about remembering your misdeeds and holding them like a sword over your head. It's about elitism and being worthy. And it's a miracle if you can get the Mormon church to feed the poor.

There's a lot of hypocrisy in other Christian religions as well, but the point of whether Mormonism is Christian isn't what makes this page so mindless. There's no thoughtful consideration of the issue at all. It's just the first thing that entered the author's mind plopped down on the page no matter how dull or ironic. It's like he or she was half asleep. Then it was carried off by 77,000 people to bandy about on their Facebook pages to win arguments that they themselves don't really even care about. So why do it?

My Mormon friend is a staff reporter for a major newspaper and author of a thoughtful opinion column. He is able to deconstruct the most subtle points of politicians, but somebody hands him a torch that says "mormon" on it and he's got to run with it. It drives me nuts.

Mark Twain wrote: "In the matter of slavish imitation, man is the monkey's superior all the time. The average man is destitute of independence of opinion. He is not interested in contriving an opinion of his own, by study and reflection, but is only anxious to find out what his neighbor's opinion is and slavishly adopt it." I can hardly argue when it comes to Mormons.

But I just don't get why people can say some people are Christian and some aren't. Just like any piece of text, the Bible requires interpretation. While I totally agree that Mormons are out in left field with their fingers up their nose (just like other churches), I think its silly to say they're not Christian when technically the only requirement is the belief in Christ and his teachings.

It seems completely reasonable that anyone believing in Jesus Christ would qualify for the label of "Christian," but not all "Christians" agree, based on fundamental theological differences.

As I understand it, it mostly has to do with the difference between salvation by grace and salvation by works. Christians believe in the former, Mormons the latter.

In its purest form, getting saved by the grace of God means that you don't have to do anything to get saved--you just are. This concept is not without conflict, since most rank-and-file trailer court Christians would hardly agree that you don't have to repent, or get baptized, or otherwise commit to one thing or another to get saved.

But, salvation by grace is often cited as being necessary to earn the Christian label, and in the minds of some, Mormons aren's Christians because they don't believe in grace.

How many times have we heard (and sometimes it was me, sorry bout that) That "hey, christ is in the name of our church! How can we not be christians." I mean with the blinders off it is easy to see that such a statement is the pinnacle of circular and false reasoning. Am I wrong?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 05:34PM by AmIDarkNow?.

And MOST are willing to accept them as Christians.

(I left the Catholic faith at 16 because their focus on how sinful people supposedly are was ridiculous to me. Honestly, why should I confess anything to some guy with no life?)

Awesome post, Mak.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 12:44AM by munchybotaz.

Wasn't that an awful picture? What's with the bathrobe?

Cause #36,770: Help Jesus get a shave and a haircut and buy some socks for his sandals so that he will conform to the BYU dress code.

And a nice Mr. Mac suit.

The whole thing with God having a physical body knocks them out of the woodpile. So does the celestial kingdom bit. My sister has her PhD in theology from Princeton seminary and when she got her degree in 1987 the morg not included anywhere in her classwork. She teaches part time in Delaware and she didn't include the morg in her comparitive religion class until I suggested it. I would tell her my newest wacky morg fact and eventually she became interested in them too.

Because of doctrinal issues no Protestant religion will say that the morg is Christian.

quoth the raven nevermo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The whole thing with God having a physical body
> knocks them out of the woodpile. So does the
> celestial kingdom bit. My sister has her PhD in
> theology from Princeton seminary and when she got
> her degree in 1987 the morg not included anywhere
> in her classwork. She teaches part time in
> Delaware and she didn't include the morg in her
> comparitive religion class until I suggested it.
> I would tell her my newest wacky morg fact and
> eventually she became interested in them too.
>
> Because of doctrinal issues no Protestant
> religion will say that the morg is Christian.



Doctrinal issues aside, the fact that LDS recognize JS and his new doctrine in the BoM is aberrant to MS Christian theology- he fits what they consider Biblically a "false prophet". The BoM could be 3 sentences long and say only that God has red hair, and MS Christianity would denounce it. Spoon in the major doctrinal differences (the nature of who God is, who Jesus is, the pre-existence differences, our purpose on earth, who we are in relation to God, the afterlife, etc.) and MS Christianity will never recognize Mormons as Christian because they don't fit the bill of Christian orthodoxy. And it's not just Protestants- Catholics and other branches within Christian orthodoxy won't recognize them either.

I empathize with Mormons- I get that they want to be considered Christian by other Christians since they recognize Christ (albeit not the same way MS Christians do). The problem is that MS Christians define the term "Christian" differently than just a follower of Christ. It's really more a term of who has salvation, based on the Biblical criteria and orthodox standards. So... it's just a battle that they'll never win. I feel bad for them, because in a way it's unfair to tell someone what they're labeling themselves as isn't valid... so whether or not I agree with MS Christianity, it is what it is, and what it will always be.

Arguing about whether or not Mormons are Christians based on doctrinal issues is like arguing whether or not the Joker's origin is valid as the "Red Hood" vs. the Joker that killed Bruce Wayne's parents or not.

While it may be fun to do, don't ever make fun of nerds that argue about "non cannical" star wars fan fiction.

It's the same thing.

It makes it really hard online to talk doctrine and history when the discussion is overrun by fundies screaming that Mormons aren't Christian.

Fundies make all non Mormons look bad to TBMs, and they are so obsessed with the one point that they derail a lot of discussions that might get a TBM's attention.

I don't quite get where all the generic hate comes from.

Heresy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It makes it really hard online to talk doctrine
> and history when the discussion is overrun by
> fundies screaming that Mormons aren't Christian.
>
> Fundies make all non Mormons look bad to TBMs, and
> they are so obsessed with the one point that they
> derail a lot of discussions that might get a TBM's
> attention.
>
> I don't quite get where all the generic hate comes
> from.

Stating the orthodox Christian position to those that seem to have an interest in the matter is not hate. That is, unless you define any and all disagreement as hate.

Christian view: Mormons are not Christians. That is not a view limited to "fundies," it is nearly universally held among all Christians.

Proof:
Christians believe Jesus is God, eternally existing as God.
Mormons do not believe that Jesus is God.
Result: Mormons are not Christians.

Heresy, is the above proof an example of hate by your defintion?

Hey, Mak!! It's "Old Rugged Cross" ya heathen!!!

Just sayin'...

Ron

It didn't sound quite right when I typed it, but I didn't bother to look it up. Thanks for the correction! That'll teach me. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 03:25PM by Makurosu.

because they say they are. Or "Warren Jeffs is a Mormon" because he says he is.

They also voted themselves the ones who get to decide who's in and who's out. The single doctrinal tenet which is a must (all others are optional) is the Trinity. If you are Trinitarians, you are in no matter what other gobbledegook you believe. Others are out: Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Scientists, etc., step to the margins, please.

In 2006 in Salt Lake County, the Ministerial Association (I think) created a green placard in the shape of a triangle which churches put on their front door. They were trying to inform the public which churches were the "real" Christians, since you can't rely on the name, like the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. Members began putting them on their door like missionary hexes. I don't think the idea lasted very long.

The idea of separating Christian religions based on the Trinity has some historical roots since Constantine originated the idea to solve some of the very same quarrels that arose in his time. They were struggling with whether or not a Christian had to be a Jew first, so you can see that the details of the debate are completely subjective as to when it is being argued.

All the finger pointing has to do with power and fear of other religions becoming more powerful, especially one with a PR organization and lobbyists. When government is not functioning well, the special interests run the show, so frightened Christian Fundies start screaming and pointing like in the movie "The Body Snatchers."

Makes me so glad to have a Buddha statue and candles in my living room.

Namaste

Cause if it doesn't work both ways then it's a lie.

just sayin...

Why does the mormon church want to be christian now, when just a few decades ago it absolutley denied that it was christian? To me it is obvious that this is a political move. The next president candidate that is a mormon, will need the votes of the christians.