I'm guessing there are plenty. But, understandably, who is going to be the first to speak up? Why do I think plenty? Back in the day some of us non-mormons in SLC often shared the joke:

Why do you always take two mormons with you when you go fishing?

Because if you just take one he'll drink all your beer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 12:20AM by thingsithink.

We exist, that's for sure. :) Several of my close friends at BYU are also non-believers, including my RM brother.

There are plenty of people at BYU who think they'd be doing you a big favor by destroying your life/future in order to get you to feel vulnerable/dependent on the church. Of course they will feel good about doing it because they believe you just have 80 years more years of enduring to the end that will be followed up with millions of years of exaltation and as a result you will eventually thank them for saving your wretched soul. I think its sad that exmos ever have to feel trapped. But alas there are many different scenarios involved (all where the blame rests on the church) in how people end up at BYU and unbelievers. When you signed on the dotted line did the church give you full disclosure on what you were getting yourself into? Nope they didn't so you don't owe them full disclosure either. Thus the best thing for any "exmo at heart" at BYU to do is to (a) stay below the radar (i.e. never use BYU network or equipment to access this website or others like it, never speak ill of church/univ leaders, etc.), (b) see if you can get out ASAP and if you can't then wrap up your degree and then move forward, (c) don't get yourself ex'ed or resign your membership until you have your transcript all safe/sound after exit. It's sad to see from time to time how someone will resign or publicly apostasize around the time of graduation and then lose their degree because somebody tattletales on them and the standards or honor code czars decide to punish them. I always tell my kids that they can go to BYU if they want as long as they agree to two things: (a) never criticize the church or any of its leaders EVER; (b) if they ever get a testimony of Joe Smith then they aren't allowed to become an unbeliever until 6 months AFTER graduation.

My best guess is that speaking out at BYU about non-belief would be a real quick way to get kicked out of school. It is not a good idea to bite the hand that feeds you.

If BYU is really bugging you then perhaps you should consider transferring to a different school.

Do students give up normal freedoms of religion, speech, assembly, association, and thought and also work for their credits and pay fees and tuition?

All universities have rules but BYU is the worst. And forever graduates must live with smirks and rolled eyes when interviewers see BYU on their resumes.

Most religions of any size have at least one college or university, but those churches don't carp about how students are taking and not giving back. The churches benefit as much as students because of the publicity of having a college and having educated congregants.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 10:26AM by Cheryl.

the quotes are my emphasis... a few years ago the conduct and dress codes were available to all on their site....now they are not available without signing on to their site.... point being.... there aint much "liberty" there.... if you are black person you can have a bald head.... if you were white you could not!! they also had many other strict rules....sorry i cant remeber other items.... but BYU didnt hold a candle to them as i recall.... just sayin...

I graduated from BYU, quite a while ago. I have worked in six states, and two countries. I never had anyone smirck or roll their eyes about where I went to school. Kinduv like going to Notre Dame, they suspect you are Catholic, may not like Catholics, but they realize it is a good school. And it is, and so is BYU. Yes, I didn't like many of the things about it. But the quality of education was excellant.

Also, I know of many who are ashamed of where they went to school even though no one calls them on it.

excellant??? really? i dont usually say anything about spelling... but in the context of this conversation...your gaff seems a little..Incongruous!!
just sayin!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2011 03:13PM by bignevermo.

elcid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I graduated from BYU, quite a while ago. I have
> worked in six states, and two countries. I never
> had anyone smirck or roll their eyes about where I
> went to school. Kinduv like going to Notre Dame,
> they suspect you are Catholic, may not like
> Catholics, but they realize it is a good school.
> And it is, and so is BYU. Yes, I didn't like many
> of the things about it. But the quality of
> education was excellant.

I guess that is because you didn't study egyptology or DNA (or any humanities courses about feminism, people of color, or homosexuality). BYU is a fucking joke to me because they lack integrity. A school that only has intellectual integrity when it agrees with their pre-existing beliefs is a shitty school. Colleges are supposed to be places that investigate the world in order to gain knowledge. The sociological research conducted there is often performed to make a nice PR piece for the church.

The other possibility is that most people around the world simply do not know about the problems associated with certain fields at BYU and find the graduates to be reasonably smart. I didn't until I moved to utah after all.

I am a pretty much non-believer at byu (still trying to make a final decision but right now don't believe it)
I'm wondering if there is a "underground" community, so to speak haha. What I mean is I think there are a lot more nonbelievers at byu than one would think but I'd love to know more of them.

ab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a pretty much non-believer at byu (still
> trying to make a final decision but right now
> don't believe it)
> I'm wondering if there is a "underground"
> community, so to speak haha. What I mean is I
> think there are a lot more nonbelievers at byu
> than one would think but I'd love to know more of
> them.


Maybe you could make a "post secret" type of website where non-believers at BYU could send secrets to get them published on a webpage.

there is an underground group of non-believers at BYU. My son is part of that group. It has helped him maintain his sanity while he has worked towards his degree.

A large segment of the student body consists of people who are culturally very, very Mormon but who are overall fairly ambivalent about religion. I wouldn't say those people were non-believers but they really aren't true believers, either. Most of them just aren't very vocal about it until they've left school, if ever.

Ironically, most of the biggest BYU "fans" who are TBM's that I know never went to school there.

Reminds me of the joke: Did you hear about the BYU coed that found out her boyfriend drank coffee? She got out of bed, put her clothes on and went back to her own apartment.

My Sociology professor at a small midwestern college (where I did my basics) did his PHD at BYU as a non-mormon just so he could study the group behavior and see what it was like to be experience what it was like to be the odd-duck out in a cult-ish environment. Very interesting guy.

Oh, there definitely are.

For what it's worth, my dad was a fresh-off-the-boat muslim when he got into BYU, and he never converted. Exactly WHY that was his school of choice, I'll probably never know.

fiend Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, there definitely are.
>
> For what it's worth, my dad was a
> fresh-off-the-boat muslim when he got into BYU,
> and he never converted. Exactly WHY that was his
> school of choice, I'll probably never know.


I read an article a few years ago which said that a fair number of foreign-born Muslim students are drawn to study at BYU since it bans alcohol, doesn't allow coed housing for singles, etc. I wish I could find the link to the article, but I can't recall where I read it.

Hmm, I'm surprised I haven't thought of that! I think you're right, that was probably the reason.

...and she loves mormons. She said they aren't pigs*, like the rest of Americans. She feels there are lots of similarities between Muslim and Mormon. Hmmmm.

(*Apparently, pigs are filthy and sleep with anyone and male pigs don't care if another pig screws his female. Yes, this conversation took place in my living room. Actually, I just listened for most of it, so it might not qualify as a conversation. I love the sound of this chick's voice. Mesmerizing.)

Also, I read an article too about why Muslims like BYU, citing all the reasons you listed. I'll go try and find it asap. : )



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2011 12:13PM by Queen of Denial.

When i was there one of these idiots backed into my car. He was palestinian and after everything that ensued I've been biased ever since.

I had a good many professors who were non-believers but of course if your job is at stake you'd probably pretend to believe in magic flying ponies too.

I have a close relative who taught Family Relations at BYU for several years until the day he died. I sat in on one of his classes once the year before he died, and was shocked/pleased to see him show the historical painting of the women being carried off and raped by Romans or some such. He told the class "the girls don't look too upset about it, do they?" Sure enough, the women seemed to be enjoying the raping, and putting on a half-hearted effort to formally resist. The class was mostly girls, and they appeared very amused by this.

At the time I thought he was being edgy. After I left the church, years later, I learned that my relative was in fact a hardcore atheist in the last several years before his death, but played his cards in a manner to allow him to retain a temple recommend and thus work at BYU. I sure missed out on what would have been a great relationship today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2011 03:47PM by kimball.

Does BYU require their professors to have a temple recommend? I knew a close family friend who taught there, and he tells people he is Jewish, but he's really an atheist. I don't know what he disclosed to BYU, though.

http://yfacts.byu.edu/viewarticle.aspx?id=97

This site has stats for religion, ethnicity, gender, etc. I find it very interesting.

They have a category "no religious reference". How does that work? I don't believe in god and therefore, do not have to pay him 10%. Do non-lds pay a higher rate of tuition, kind of like out-of-state?

I am a vocal dissident at BYU and I'm out. I know quite a few people that are foyer Mormons or on their way out. My gf is pretty much gone. I'm just waiting to graduate, but for now I am taking the free tuition as payment for my wasted mission and tithing money.

I am a recent non-believer BYU student. Was a TBM when I got accepted, went on a mission, got home about 6 months ago, & now I realize it was all a hoax!
I only have a year left & I get free tuition. Just holding out till I graduate & can leave this corrupt state!
Glad to know I'm not an alone daughter of God here at the "Lord's" University ;)

Whats this free tuition deal?

Scholarship

I thought I was alone at the time, but found out after graduating, that a number of people I went to school with had also left LDS Inc.

BTW, back in the 1960s, the student body was about 5% nevermo, while today it is about 1%, and there was no "ecclesiastical endorsement" needed back then. It has gotten more Mo-ish over the years.

Political liberals were not an endangered species back then either. Boy, that's changed. But I can't help but believe that there are a lot of current BYU students, especially the Californians, who were less than thrilled with the LDS stand on Prop 8 in particular. I left just before the change in policy on black males in the priesthood, and I know there was huge relief among a lot of BYU students when that happened. It was hard feeling obligated to defend the indefensible. The policy on women in leadership is still indefensible, but that's another story.

Several of my professors were nonbelievers. One of my favorites, who as far as I know was a TBM, I later found out was a board member of ACLU of Utah (which was founded by SWK's eldest son, BTW), and a board member of Planned Parenthood of Utah. BYU contains many surprises. :)

I am a nonbeliever at BYU

My nephew was at BYU and was a closet gay. Huge comunity at BYU and they don't stand out as much as at other schools becasue all the males look clean cut and shaven and preppy and that style is very popular in the gay community right now.

Anyway he was always hanging out with other dudes that were all "friends" and just put up with BYU rules. 3 months after he graduated and got accepted to UCLA grad school he formally came out of the closet on FB.

Yeah I would say there are a lot of unbelievers at BYU. Makes it more exciting for the undercover Nazi-BYU detectives to try to find them.

There is a wide receiver on the football team, Luke Ashworth, who is an RM and left to church to join an evangelical church.

Did they excommunicate Luke Ashworth? Seems like his eccleastical endorsment would be taken away by the mormon church and they would kick him out of BYU.

Interesting paradox

Technically I think he could get an endorsement from his current church and the rules would allow it. Obviously it looks bad though so you won't read his story in the Church Paper (Deseret News) or at one of Coach Bronco's firesides. They they may encourage the avg Joe student to leave in such a case, but make an exception for a talented athlete, while sweeping it under the rug like Rafael Araujo's tattoos (airbrushed away in their media guide, for example).