Whenever someone posts about mishie harassment, I read versions of this from parents:

"All of my kids went on missions and never lied or harassed anyone. They were kind, helpful, and respectful. Missionaries have a legal right to knock on doors and I appreciate everyone who treats these kids kindly and respectfully since they are just doing what they think is right. Every one of my missionary kids nicely thanked everyone and moved on when anyone didn't want to hear their message."

Here's my problem with this. The parent wasn't there. He/she is imagining what happened every day of their kids' missions. They're assuming their kids weren't under the gun of a senior comp the MP. They're assuming all kinds of things with no proof about the kids they probably financed and pressured to go away and live in poverty so they could push a destructive cult.

These parents are likely in denial about what their kids were forced to do on their missions.

Here's another problem I'd like to point out. People in their homes and apartments have rights. They are under no obligation to open their doors to strangers. They own their private time space and owe nothing to salespeople or religion pushers who show up unexpectedly.

Mormons have rights too. They get to practice their religion but that doesn't include a right to practice it on private property if the owner objects.

I've pointed this out many times and never had much response, but here goes. People in there homes are doing whatever is important to them, sleeping, spending time with kids, meditating, nursing colds and flu, writing job applications, writing the great American novel, baking cookies. It's incredible to me that any stranger at the door and any parent back home in Mesa or Centerville thinks that these non-mormons owe something special to a couple of strange kids who happen by to pound on the door.

If any person in their home happens to want to talk to mishies, that is their right.

However, Without exception, property rights trump missionary activities or other salespitches. Mormons don't allow Anabaptists or JWs to preach in temple square or on their churchsteps. None of us need to let mormons preach one word of gospel on our property unless we choose to do it.

Word. Plus the whole "they were respectful and kindly thanked the person and moved on" mumbo jumbo is the exception to the rule.

Even the shy, timid missionaries are trained to push back when told "no thank you." They'll at least get out a "can I ask why not" or something before the door closes.

Then, for those of us who did serve, we ALL know about those elders that would stick their foot in peoples' doors or bait them into an argument.

I hate the old stand-by that these are just kids doing the best they know how. That's total bovine excrement. They are adults who know for a fact that most people don't want to talk to them about their religion. That's why they're given training on how to get into doors. That's why they have several "approaches" they have to practice as new ambassadors/greenies before they can be eligible to be a senior companion.

That's why they have manuals.

"Even the shy, timid missionaries are trained to push back when told "no thank you.""

Really???...Then I haven't had any well "trained" missionaries at my door, because I cut them off and shut it so fast that they don't get in another sound...let alone another word......

Whenever anyone complains about being interrupted by missionaries, she says "Well, the church teaches them to be polite and respectful and thank people for their time. The church teaches them to respect others. The church teaches..."

As if anything rude is done by individual rude members and that if "the church" knew that a missionary was being disrespectful or pushy, they would stop it and give that missionary a talking to immediately. Having been on the missionary side of this equation, I know that is total b.s. and that our MP pushed us to push others, to hide the tithing requirement until the investigator committed to baptism, told the elders to push a random intercom button on locked apartment buildings and when someone answered, bark "Abrela!" (Open up) in your most grumpy dad voice because Spain was a patriarchal society and people were more likely to open the building door if they mistook the elders for someone's grumpy father and so on. The MP taught the missionaries all sorts of tricks to get around peoples' natural boundaries and if he doesn't represent the church, I don't know who does.

We support our kids because we love them and we do hope they will not lie to us after saying that . When you were teaching did you every have parent come in with thier kids for the parent teacher meetings? I use to do this and I found out most would talk to me with him there but one would not. Told me he had to go out side the door before she would say a word about what he was doing I had him step out we talked then I had him come back in and asked him about everything the teacher said in front of her . She was mad and he saying not true me I backed my son when she asked why I said because you would not talk to me with him in the room.

These missionaries are old enough to go to war and get shot at. SHOT....AT. They're not children by any stretch of the imagination.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2011 10:00AM by kolobian.

If the Church believes so much in "knowing" the truth, that God will show you what is right by praying, the powers of discernment and serving callings inspired by God without training, why is it that the missionaries have to be put through a course to learn how to "sell" the religion?

Oh that's right! It's to prepare them to sell me into their MLM scheme later on.

Furthermore, TBM parents DON'T WANT to hear the truth about the intense and misplaced pressures on their missionary child, or about the misery that child endured as a missionary, any more than they want to hear the truth about anything else related to The One True Church™. All is well! All is well in Zion!

As to our homes, our rights to privacy and to healthy boundaries include:

1. Answering the door ONLY when we have invited someone or are expecting someone (e.g. friends or a repair person.)
2. Answering the telephone ONLY if/when we recognize the name or the telephone number on our caller ID.
3. Answering questions ONLY if those questions are respectful AND APPROPRIATE.

Recovery from Mormonism includes recognizing the above and learning to practice it. What an enormous difference it makes once we begin doing this!

was only interested in the status and blessings of having her kids out on missions. I doubt she ever thought much beyond that. I suppose there are many like her.

If you step on private property that belongs to the Church and try to bring them your exmormon message, are they polite and considerate?

I honestly don't know the answer; however, I know some reading this do.

What happens?

Anagrammy

They wouldn't like it at all!!!

What happens? Initially, they would try to be nice and escort the proselytizer off the premises. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

Cheryl, I see your point. Still, I know our sons were polite and kind - they were raised that way and couldn't be otherwise if they tried. Many other young people aren't, though, and I'm mindful of that. I guess I was wrong about them being able to tract - I supposed I should have phrased it more like, "We know they're going to tract, as we know Girl Scouts are going to come to the door, JW's are going to come to the door, and (as just happened a couple of days ago here) fundraisers for the local food pantry building fund will come to the door." I'm not rude and I treat people kindly, unless they simply will not stop. Our sons truly believe and really wanted to do the right thing - they felt it a divine mission to help people see the truth about the church, but they never meant it in a rude, intrusive way. Again, I'm mindful that this is not always the case.

You call that kind? You call that polite? If so, you are dead wrong. Sorry, you didn't raise them right if they can't obey the law any better than that.

I'm trying to understand where you're coming from - truly I am. But, now I'm annoyed. I most certainly DID raise my sons right, and there is no way on God's green earth they would know you have a restraining order. Our sons did what they really felt was the right thing to do and they really wanted to help people come to what they truly believe is the true church. They meant nothing malicious and if they knew someone didn't want them they didn't go there. Period. They only tracted when they had to and preferred to go on member referrals so they didn't have to knock on doors. Honestly, I don't take kindly to being told I did not raise our sons appropriately. They were joyous in the work they were doing because they feel it is correct - that casts no aspersions on me or my husband whatsoever. If they were in your neighborhood and knew there was a restraining order they wouldn't knock on your door. The world is a big place and there is room for everyone - I don't think overt, instantaneous rudeness is the answer to a problem like this, especially when missionaries don't come around very often anyway.

You seem to think that it is my fault that your/their church is not as smart at the JWs who tell their reps when there's a court order to stay away from certain addresses.

NO, that is wrong.

Mormons are stupid if they think I MUST fall into line and put up with stalking because their feelings are hurt when someone doesn't want them hanging around on their porch with offensive messages and dim wit printouts.

Not buying that.

Something else that offends me is the idea that I OWE mormons some kind of perfect reception when they target me just because I used to be a mormon. Nope, I left the plyg cult and the mainstream church at age 19. By that age I had lived through far worse that a slammed door or two.

Give me a breaK!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2011 04:46PM by Cheryl.

Wow. I wasn't "bragging", but you are certainly insulting. I thought differently of you and have highly respected your posts and comments. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. I do believe I'm going to go do something else now, as this is rapidly going downhill and not achieving anything. Missionaries knock, ask if you want to hear their message, you say no thanks, they move on...end of story. Your reaction seems way over the top and I'm with anonsd on this one...

And that is my legal right. It's also my right to have them arrested if they refuse.

But upon reflection - I was being rude.

I'm not sure where your boys served, but in Europe you are expected to not only do door to door sales, but also do street contacting as well.

This is where you bug the crap out of people who are just trying to get their errands run.

In Germany we were rude to interrupt people who were just trying to get their errands run - and were told that quite frequently by the Germans.

It didn't matter HOW we presented our spiel. To them, culturally, you don't bug people period. And our American arrogance tried to overrun their cultural differences.

That was a big part of the cog dis that I felt. I KNEW I was being rude and violating cultural norms.

But the mission rules don't give a damn about that kind of thing.

Furthermore, the church has massive ad campaigns. If people in developed countries really wanted to know more about Mormonism, they would go to the missionaries. And not the other way around.

But most people don't care and are NOT at all interested in shopping for a new religion.

They served in British Columbia and Brazil - very different environments, to be sure. They never meant to be rude and would have found it incredibly difficult to do so. They knew they were having to push people a bit, but they really felt it was a desirable thing to do. Once they were called out on it by a person or group they immediately moved on. It's hard because they're doing as they were taught and feel as though they have the spirit with them when they do the work - whether or not other people feel that way or are welcoming to them, they still were instructed to try to help as many people as possible. They never saw it as manipulation and ruining peoples' lives or anything. Perhaps they'll see it differently down the road, but these are 19- and 20-year-old kids with, sometimes, not much life experience and a lot of indocrination (though they don't recognize it as such) to do what they're told to do and bring people into the amazing, one-and-only church. Quite often they truly mean well and are somewhat shocked and disappointed in ignorant treatment, and it hurt me to hear about it during our weekly email chats. It's a no-win situation, I guess...

So get over the idea that mishies deserve extra special consideration for their so called good intentions.

Most people throughout history and across the earth consider their own intentions to be every bit as valid.

This is a thread. How often do missionaries stop by your home. Once or twice a year. Get over it Cheryl you are majoring in the minors.

First, it is a rare occassion for missionaries to stop by, and if some are pushy or rude, so what, people in general can be rude and pushy. Move along.

Reel him in, Cheryl!

Only a loony toon thinks they have to read everything they object to on RfM. And *more out there* still is the idea that anyone can control what strangers on the internet choose to write.

that thinks you're a little obsessive about this topic.

My problem with this thread is this. A lot of TBMs visit this board and when they see a thread like this they think we are all just a bunch of sensitive babies. We lose credibility because of threads like this.

also, you didn't answer my quesetion. when was the last time missionaries stopped by your house? ANd how often do they stop by?