you were speaking of religion when you said:

"that is delusional, insane, silly and stupid."

insane... so you DO think religion is a psychosis!

hmmmm
wow and some people had a problem with the way you were using delusional.

Steve i wish your pain would leave you. i can feel it across the depths of cyberspace.
religion and Mormonism in particular has really done a number on you... maybe we should just take it easy on you for a while... in the interest of you mental well being maybe i should take easy on you.
have a nice night Steve!

If you really think about it, it all is quite silly.

People being swallowed by a whale, a family living on the ark and interbreeding after to populate the world, people living 900 years etc.

Additionally, people are expecting public policy to be detemined by this madness rather than scientific explanation.

Prayer is accepted in society as speaking to god, however when god speaks to people it is called schizophrenia, and some call it prophecy or discernment, unfortunately giving it unearned credibility.

PSYCHOTIC???
hello....really? K sea-ya later!

Face it. The only reason you don't consider it psychotic is because a lot of people in your culture share the same delusions.

you are prolly new here so i will cut you some slack... but... you obviously have no idea what my "culture" is! a suggestion... go search my name and then come back with some evidence that i am a Christian.. i can appreciate that you are here at RFM and i welcome you...just realize...there are many different "cultures" present on this board...and you have missed the mark with your comment...:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2011 08:23AM by bignevermo.

Been here since '97, friend. Don't care about you, so I won't be doing a search, but by "your culture" I wasn't referring to you being an Xian. I was referring to western Xian society. Delusion Xian beliefs don't seem psychotic because it's so pervasive in western culture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2011 09:18AM by alan.

why did you say:
"your culture" do you realize or care how it would be received?
i contend that at that moment...you didnt realize that i am not a Christer!! seems like a backpedal to me.

and while you may have "been here" since '97...you have a total of 8 posts in the new format that is why it seemed to me that you are/were new(i actually try and check things out before i speak)... so if you have only been lurking and reading since the new format...before you make a statement maybe you should be knowledgeable about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2011 09:29AM by bignevermo.

sigh... whatever bro. Keep on being an exmo board superhero. i could have been clearer in my post, but it's ridiculous that you got so worked up over this.

Im going to agree with Alan's original post here, and if you wanna throw a fit because i agree with him, go for it.

I too agree with Alan. Here's the first definition for "psychosis" on dictionary.com:

"a mental disorder characterized by symptoms, such as delusions or hallucinations, that indicate impaired contact with reality."

Thus, "delusional" is a subset of psychosis, meaning anyone who is delusional must alse therefore be psychotic. Hallucinations are another subset, but the word "or" makes them not necessary to be psychotic. Also, I think "impaired contact with reality" is a very good way to describe religious people. We can discuss that further if you'd like.

mental disorder by any reputable clinician...
when you use mental disorder to describe someone that is religious...that is a spiteful term and not accurate.
if you have any evidence that there is no god...i aint saying there is a god... but if you have empirical evidence for that negative i sure would like to hear/see it.
most definitions of delusional also requires that the person refuses to admit or "see" the superior evidence of their delusion...
again that requires evidence...where is it?
if you use psychotic to describe someone that is insulting... is that the effect you are looking for?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2011 11:03AM by bignevermo.

It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

--Krishnamurti--


Okay, now that that cliched wisdom has been offered, and in the meantime bignevermo's mother has been labelled psychotic, in the clinical sense, and all the nice people that go to church with bignevermo's mum psychotic, too, please tell us:

what should society do with all the delusional psychotics living and breathing amongst us?

In other words, if RfMers wish to play internet psychiatrist and diagnose whole segments of society as mentally ill, psychotic even, then I think the responsible thing to do is to also offer ideas for treatment, remedy, etc.

So, how shall we medically treat all the psychotic and delusional people (read religious people, as per the discussions) of the United States? Perhaps our political cartoonist could offer his suggestions first.

Cant we have some discourse on these subjects?
hey Pharrel you will know when i "throw a fit"... i have only done that once with a poster here and it wasn't pretty... trust me you will know.."when the gloves come off"!! :)

"your culture" :)

In broad terms:

--"very foolish; absurd"

--"irresponsible; very foolish; stupid"

--"irrational--not consistent with or using reason"

--"mad, crazy, nuts (slang), cracked (slang), mental (slang), barking (slang), crackers (Brit. slang), mentally ill, crazed, demented, cuckoo (informal), deranged, loopy (informal), round the bend (informal), barking mad (slang), out of your mind, gaga (informal), screwy (informal), doolally (slang), off your trolley (slang), round the twist (informal), of unsound mind, not right in the head, non compos mentis (Latin), off your rocker (slang), not the full shilling (informal), mentally disordered"

--"stupid, foolish, daft (informal), bizarre, irresponsible, irrational, lunatic, senseless, preposterous, impractical, idiotic, inane, fatuous, dumb-a** (slang)"

--"(Psychology) characteristic of a person of unsound mind"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/insane


For some enlightenment in your behalf on the last category, Richard Dawkins, the Charles Siymoni Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University," writes:

"The word 'delusion' in [the] title [of my book, 'The God Delusion,' Houghton Mifflin, 2000] has disquieted some psychiatrists who regard it as a technical term, not to be bandied about. Three of them wrote to me to propose a special term for religious delusion: 'relusion.' Maybe it will catch on.

"But for now I am going to stick with 'delusion,' and I need to justify my use of it. The 'Penguin English Dictionary' defines a delusion as a 'a false belief or impression.' . . . The dictionary supplied with Microsoft Word defines a delusion as 'a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence, especially as a sympton of psychiatric disorder.' . . . [To quote George Carlin]: 'Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man--living in the sky--who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send yo uto live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time . . . But He loves you!'"


In other words, "insane," as in "deluded":

Robert M. Pirsig, author of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values," observes, “When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called a Religion.”

Carl Sagan, renowned Pulitzer-prize winning scientist, notes, "For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 08:30PM by steve benson.

that you knew exactly what you were saying... how it would be received and ingested and you knew it would incite certain emotions in some people and it is mean spirited especially when considering all of the threads lately.
i have more to say but dont have the time right now...
dont touch that dial!
yippee Kay Yea..
ok here it is:

Steve you are the ONLY one on the BB that is a:
Pulitzer prize winning journalist...so you are just hiding behind your "broad term"... and so i am very confident that out of all the other people on this BB you realize that the words you are using are hateful... and further more if you wanted to use other words to describe the same idea you could have... but as a wordsmith you used words that would elicit certain emotions and feelings... you are a hard line anti religious person with the journalistic skills to use words that will convey your meanings without being hateful and the fact that you use words that are mean spirited say a lot to me of your character! and it aint good.

you also require from people that you are conversing with to have emprical data to back up their claims...in fact you are dogged in this regard...and will go point by point with a poster with views diametrically opposed to yours... and yet you wouldnt answer direct question from me and you were very disingenuous when you left out,,,in the delusion thread... the part about cause:Causes
The exact cause is unknown. It is believed that genetic, biochemical and environmental factors play a significant role in the development of delusional disorder (4).
why is that?

you left out:

the exact cause is unknown.... you used part of the "cause" but left out the most important part(to me and a lot of other people)
the cause is unknown.... that is straight from one of your sources you are using confirmation bias especially in light of leaving out:
the exact cause is unknown...

i gotta stop here cause this thread may be in danger of closing!
Hi-yo Silver Away!



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2011 10:54AM by bignevermo.

So that couple who beat their adopted child to death for 8 hours straight while taking intermittent prayer breaks, doing so in the name of their god...You don't think that's psychotic? REALLY?

or the fatal shooting of Dr George Tiller, a Kansas physician who performed abortions,- not only delusional and psychotic- but also arguably an act of christian terrorism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 06:15PM by deco.

religious... obviously...that does not make all religious people psychotic. i hope you can realize this fact.

How else would you define People who believe in a flying Jesus, and all other miracles?

psy·chot·ic
adjective /sīˈkätik/ 

Of, denoting, or suffering from a psychosis
- a psychotic disturbance

noun /sīˈkätik/ 
psychotics, plural

A person suffering from a psychosis

that is a pure clinical term in my opinion...

and here form the "urban dictionary"
Psychotic 68 up, 12 down
Medical term that tries to make a state of mind into a disease. Describes a person experiencing hallucinations, or so-called "delusions" that may seem misguided to someone who doesn't have time or respect for the deeper meanings of those beliefs.

Contrary to popular belief, very few people diagnosed with psychoses are violent.
You can't get a job in that state but we don't give out free money in this society. We'll destroy you with these drugs and then we'll support you after that. To give you this help we have to label you "psychotic".
buy psychotic mugs & shirts
psychiatry psychiatrist psychopharmacology antipsychotic antipsychiatry
by Pseudopsyentist Dec 4, 2007 share this add a video
2. psychotic 65 up, 26 down
an individual suffering from psychosis and showing a delusional state, often having extreme mood swings and delusions and states of grandeur. This can be induced by amphetamine, stimulant use, cocaine use, LSD, drug withdrawls, and is often the state where one zones out and becomes separated from the real world and loses his perception of reality and lives in a delusion
yo dis bitch psychotic i think hes gonno go all out psycho on me one of these days hes scarin the hell outta me
buy psychotic mugs & shirts
psycho psychosis psychotic serial killer clown sicko sadist
by deandrew Nov 8, 2006 share this add a video
3. Psychotic 12 up, 2 down
In general common usage, the term connotates crazy. However, actually psychotic people sometimes hallucinate badly, can have delusional ideas, sometimes say things that wouldn't make sense to them if they were in their senses, and sometimes just aren't there in a catatonic sense. Some can't filter out irrelevant stuff from their surroundings, but not all. An old term for a catatonic Schizophrenia symptom has been passed to its' genetic opposite for quite awhile now, Autism. Ironically, though 'psychotic' implies crazy, I find Antisocial personality disorder to have more to do with 'crazy' then psychotic ever did.
I am so glad I have several good reasons that I'm developmental as opposed to psychotic!
buy psychotic mugs & shirts
crazy loco whackazoid weirdo deranged normal neurotypical ordinary nt non-psychotic pycotic psycotic psicotic psycotyk
by Crazed Book Lover Dec 19, 2009 share this add a video

4. Psychotic 12 up, 11 down
The octomom, or someone who frequently calls 911 like it's her best friend and has 14 kids.
Woman: look! it's a psychotic person!
Man: no way!
Woman: Way!
Man: oh.
Woman: I know!!!!
buy psychotic mugs & shirts
octomom crazy psycho nadya sulleman 911
by livelaughmusic89 Mar 29, 2009 share this add a video
5. Psychotic 34 up, 49 down
Insane without real reson. Controlable craziness, but the person experiencing it decides to let it out, resulting in the term "Psychotic"
"Mike really is a psychotic bastard."
buy psychotic mugs & shirts

even this definition does not include any religious slant.

psychotic in general is used in a clinical sense...although you obviously can say whatever you want. i think it is an incitful and an adversarial term and is not used by people who have empathy for others.

i will have more later so stay tuned!

i hope Steve you had a nice night. :)
3
and quin...i call it silly!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2011 09:08AM by bignevermo.

It has to do with the competence of a person to enter into agreements and other related issues under the law.

In the U.S. at least, someone's religious belief does not disqualify them from competency. Perhaps this should be re-examined.

I'm thinking it only seems like pain and anger because it clashes with your world view. And if it is... have you ever been in an argument that you have mounds of supportive evidence and the other person keeps clinging to something nonsensical? Yeah, it's kind of maddening.

There are a lot of beliefs that have been widely held by many people for hundreds of years that eventually had to be let go when science and or rational thought proved otherwise. For me, it's time to let go of the fable.

If someone believes the earth is flat... might you think they were insane or delusional? How about if an adult believes that there is actually a Santa Claus, and he lives at the north pole with a bunch of elves. What about the sun orbiting the earth? What about aliens that came down and started a religion? A little crazy, perhaps?

If people could look past their own biases to apply the same scrutiny to their own belief systems that they apply to other peoples', religions would either fall OR people would accept that they are acting on a myth for cultural reasons. Many people like the structure and ritual religion provides.

As far as the legal definition of insanity, I don't know enough about it... but talking to an invisible man in the hopes that he may change the outcome of one's life and/or help find the car keys sounds pretty crazy to me.

When I was between belief and dis-belief of a diety, I figured out that prayer was a tool to make me or other people feel better, focus, give thanks, or talk out an issue. Amazingly enough, all of those things can be done without inthenameofcheeseandrice, amen attached to the end of it.

Sometimes, just for kicks, I'll use a chant in another language or some other method that is supposed to be "divine". I know it's horse pucky from a divine intervention standpoint, but it helps my mind be open to new possibilities. Maybe rewires it a bit so I can be open to inspiration that comes from my own mind or other people, books, tv, internet, or your pet ferret.

PS, I've loved all of these threads. Even if people are getting mean, there is some great critical thinking being shared.

If someone believes the earth is flat... might you think they were insane or delusional? How about if an adult believes that there is actually a Santa Claus, and he lives at the north pole with a bunch of elves. What about the sun orbiting the earth? What about aliens that came down and started a religion? A little crazy, perhaps?

i agree that all of those things are close if dont actually meet the criteria for clinical delusion or in some cases worse.
but your examples are in the extreme and dont constitute the bulk of religious peoples.

i agree with the following wholeheartedly:

Many people like the structure and ritual religion provides.
and:
When I was between belief and dis-belief of a diety, I figured out that prayer was a tool to make me or other people feel better, focus, give thanks, or talk out an issue. Amazingly enough, all of those things can be done without inthenameofcheeseandrice, amen attached to the end of it.

and i dont have a problem with and I agree with this:

Even if people are getting mean, there is some great critical thinking being shared. :)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2011 08:33AM by bignevermo.

when a person believes in invisible, all powerful, all knowing, beings that seem to want to stay so hidden that it is impossible to tell the real being from thousands of myths, it is hard for me to call that person sane.

Well you're going to have a hard time coping with anybody in life then.

Good luck.

Steve gets a little careless now and then. Cut him some slack.

i cut him some slack last night!! GOOD MORNING!!

and a slack cutter he surely aint.

OK, will he cut us some slack also? I know everybody has their quirks. Some of us say things and then wish we could have them back. Life is about alot of things. One of them is learning to be tactful. I mean if we all said the things we'd like to say there wouldn't be alot of getting along. I get that religion seems pretty weird. And I've tried to say, OK, true, but we all are in a situation where we want answers and there aren't any forthcoming. So to cope people come up with stuff. And yes, it seems odd. But it doesn't make people "delusional" or insane, they cope with their lives in the world in a fairly normal way, for the most part. Leave them alone. We're not going to convince them of anything. Be nice to them. Love them. Be friends with them. Have some fun together. Life is too short to spend it making negative statements about somebody elses beliefs. We've got better things to do...I hope.

i surely dont agree with you always... but that was very good!! :)

If we applied Steve's definitions of insanity/delusional on the general population there would be only about 7 people walking around the entire country. The rest would be locked up or undergoing intense therapy.