I've been married to my husband for 3 years. His family are all mormon. We didn't get married in the temple just had a simple outside wedding. He doesn't agree with the church anymore because of the research we have done together. The only problem is were going to have a baby soon and I'm afraid his family will want me to join the church to raise our children mormon. Neither of us want this but I'm afraid his family will try to lure him back into the church by saying he wont be with them in heaven or with his children... Can I have some advice to help strengthen his new belief that mormonism is not the right way?

This is YOUR family now. YOUR husband...YOUR child...YOUR life....Don't worry about the in-laws because they don't raise you nor care for your your kid(s)..

Family being together in heaven does NOT depend on certain mormon temple rituals. Find quotes from other religions that support that.

Point out all the MUNDANE, BORING, and just plain WRONG things you used to do at church and find a healthy/fun substitute to do for them on Sundays..

Also as you get older and your kid(s) get older, you'll find that YOUR life gets busy and has different priorities compared to extended family members who want you to basically play a part in the big mormon play.

You're married and you're about to have a child..Remember...it's YOUR life to live...not someone else's or a church's life to live.

The arrogant, money-grubbing old men of the LDS Corporation (who leach off of others) have NO authority to decide or to tell ANYONE who will or will not be together in the afterlife. One time, a bishoprick tried to tell me that if I did such-and-such a thing, then I would never see my family after death. I told him that he had no authority to say any such thing about me or my family. They try to use it as one of their control mechanisms, when in reality they do not know what they're talking about.

There is a distinct difference between "their wants and your needs" - Of course their wants may be like a Ferrari and a Million Bucks.. However they might have to settle for $50.00 and a ride in a Ford Ranger..

There is nothing against compromise and giving a little, but make sure your boundaries are set firmly in place and the other side of the family are absolutely aware of your limits..With the possibility of you disfellowshipping them if they step over the mark. Or give them the untimate threat of "excommunicating them from your babies life" if they mess with you..

Just some thoughts ..

JB

Thanks for the input. I hope we can make it through this. If not we will "excommunicate" them from our babies life.

WifeofTBM Wrote:
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his family will try to lure
> him back into the church by saying he wont be with
> them in heaven or with his children.

This is one the very first points that started making me question the church. My family is all TBM too, my wife and her family are not, we did a small wedding outside too. IF there is a god, what kind of god would just dissolve my marriage simply because I didn't take part in a ritual of some church? What kind of a god wouldn't honor the bonds and family that was formed here on Earth, because I refused to take part in a silly ceremony?

If they try to pull that manipulative luring move, he should think hard about those questions. It doesn't take long to figure out that temple marriage is a sham, and that a god that doesn't support families WITHOUT doing a silly ritual is a god that's not worth believing in.

Exactly. Thanks for this also. I'm so glad I found this website with people in the same situation.

“Neither of us want this but I'm afraid his family will try to lure him back into the church by saying he wont be with them in heaven or with his children... Can I have some advice to help strengthen his new belief that mormonism is not the right way?”

The answer is yes. If you have not researched “Emanuel Swedenborg” then do so. Joseph plagiarized heaven just like he did everything else in his career. Swedenborg invented the theories for preexistence, degrees of heaven and heavenly marriage and ran a church based on his beliefs decades before Joseph came along, stole Swedenborg’s ideas and called them “revelation”. And yes Joseph and every other Tom, Dick and Harry had plentiful access to Swedenborg’s theories and even members of Swedenborg’s church.

The reason for this particular research is this. You can’t be re-activated by guilt if you know the heaven you were taught was real doesn’t exist and was not revelation. No real heaven according to Smith, no guilt, no power over DH.

http://www.theisticscience.org/books/dlw/dlw.html

http://www.theisticscience.org/books/hh/hh00toc.html Very interesting.

http://craigwmiller.tripod.com/interest.htm

Some items on his list of Swedenborg's ideas:

1 Three levels of heaven
2 Three heavens in the CK
3 Priesthood robes are worn in heavenly marriage ceremonies
4 You must be married in heaven to inherit the highest heaven
5.The world of spirits is a place of preparation for either heaven or perdition
6 There are angles who communicate between heavens
7 The 3 kingdoms are like sun, moon, stars
8.The church that Christ established has passed from the Earth

You don't HAVE TO JUSTIFY your decisions.

Practice with him what he's going to say and what you're going to say. Actually, if possible, I'd just put off confronting as long as you can - but coming up with a non-judgmental statement and then repeat as necessary might be a good idea.

"We have decided that the church is not for us, but we are still moral and good people and will raise our children that way, and we love you and want to be part of your lives - but we just won't discuss religion." Rinse and repeat.

I personally would not get into faith discussions as that ends up just going in circles and everyone gets mad.

It's a great read, and most of us come out of it knowing with real certainty that the whole thing is a scam.

I'd just look at more and more facts until you both feel so certain that it is a scam that you will start rolling your eyes at family. There are a lot of great sites with various topics, like
http://20truths.info/mormon.html


I raised my family without church. It wasn't really that difficult to raise moral, happy successful adults. Most humans manage it.

WifeofTBM Wrote:
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> I'm afraid his family will try to lure him back into the church by saying he wont be with them in heaven or with his children...

Mormons are not the only ones who believe that they will be reunited with their loved ones in heaven. This is a fundamental Christian belief. Many non-Christians believe this as well, including the ancient Romans, the ancient Norse, etc.

Just hold fast to what you and your husband want for your family. You are the parents and you get to decide. You may get a certain amount of pressure after the birth of your child (when Mormons do a baby blessing) and when your child turns eight years old (when Mormons do their baptism.)

I could be wrong, but I think most people missed her question, which seemed pretty specific, and I would imagine some people here could really give her some good advice. She asked:


"Can I have some advice to help strengthen his new belief that mormonism is not the right way?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2011 01:26AM by thingsithink.

Luke, Follow your feelings, use the force, you know the truth, do what you know is right.

Ways to strengthen his unbelief:


You said he didn't believe, but you worry that he might be swayed by family pressure and fear tactics.

Of course any study he does into church history, Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon archeaology, would strengthen his position.



But perhaps he should also study logic, and common reasoning errors so he can see the flawed logical errors in apologetic writings.

Perhaps he should also study control and abuse, so he could learn to recognize and respond when his family is manipulating him or tearing him down in order to control him and you. And he could learn how to stand his ground.

Good luck. I think from what you said that your husband KNOWS what he does and doesn't believe. Now it's just a matter of learning that you can't please everyone, and it's important to live according to your OWN beliefs, instead of someone else's. A bit of conflict, if it arises, is WORTH it if you get to claim the right to live your own life.

Don't let YOUR fear of what MIGHT happen dictate how you are with them. Just live your life and know you are an adult. Good grief, if he is a man, he can surely say something as simple as 'thanks, but that is none of your business'. Love you mom and dad but the subject of religion is off the table. How was your week at work?

It's not his belief, or lack of it, that is the problem.
You are worried he isn't man enough to stand up for you and your child when faced by extended family pressure.

It's his family and he needs to man up.

... or is he married to you?

End of discussion.

Timothy

If your husband wants to let go of the fear the cult has instilled and his family will exploit, he needs to convince himself once and for all that TSCC is not what it claims to be.

He can do that in many ways. Some people see a no-mormon therapist to help verbalize and work though the issues. Some people intellectualize it by studying TSCC's history.

It helps to narrow the issues down to just a few. Ask: What claims MUST be true for TSCC to be "true". The first vision, prophecy, BoM historical claims....? Concentrate on those for the time being.

OR just walk away. Find a nice Christmas eve service at a no-mormon church to attend. Find fun things to do with you kids on Sundays instead of the "three hour bore".

Good luck. When you're frustrated, come here to vent. Remember that you are a pioneer in your family and you are freeing countless generations from servitude to a corporation.

"All christians believe families will be together forever" card. It is always said "Now Grandma will be with Grandpa" and "People claim to see relatives come for them when having near death experiences.

Mormons will claim you have to be "Sealed" be a family forever. You can counter with the logic that we are families here on Earth and not "sealed" and that will not change in heaven.

When I ask the missionaries on Mormon chat .com about that they have no answer. Basically it is your belief VS. their belief as to what happens in heaven :)

Just tell the family you choose to follow your belief and not theirs.

Talk to him about your fears. Your married be honest. I did it with my husband in a similar situation. Together we set ground rules and boundaries. It works for both sides of our family.

I was just thinking about when I stopped believing, and I didn't know what to do next. I didn't know if we should stop going or what. I was still reeling.

My husband started planning "adventures" for the family on Sunday. We'd go somewhere interesting INSTEAD of church, to fill the void and to keep us away from more brainwashing. At first we didn't have adventures every week, but we worked our way up to every week. Sometimes it was just a hike or a picnic, but we got out of the house.

I felt guilty at first doing other things on Sunday, and spending money, but after a while it felt right.

It helped us transition out.

What to do? Hold your ground as it's your family. Refuse to be "lured" or to "take" on guilt or anything else because of different ideas or opinions than yours. Nobody can force him to do anything he doesn't want to do.

He can be polite and thank them for their concern, and remind them that it's his choice, his family and leave it at that.

I think the less said the better.

If they want to know when they are having the baby blessed, he can tell them that won't be happening.

It's a good idea to get in the habit of learning how to change the subject. :-)

"Can I have some advice to help strengthen his new belief that mormonism is not the right way?"


I wouldn't characterize it as a new "belief", but rather a new orientation. Mormonism cultivates a condition of co-dependence among the membership, producing a state of individual enmeshment that can be surprisingly powerful. Those members who come to intellectually reject mormonism are frequently (unpleasantly) surprised by the strength of their enmeshment, sometimes wrongfully interpreting a "mere" psychological state as one of guilt and personal failing. Add in manipulation by "clergy", "friends" and family, and the member attempting to depart can experience genuine trauma and fear.

A couple of precepts for your husband:

1. The primary bonding agent of mormonism is not spirituality or fraternity, but psychological enmeshment: a symptom of an organized pathology, but not of a religion by any reasonable definition.

2. He is the only legitimate steward of his own life - but his time in an LDS environment may have eroded a sense of that doctrine, or even obliterated it. Above all else, this sense of full, exclusive, genuine entitlement to self-determination must be recovered. No separation of church and self can occur without a strong conviction of such.

==============================================

Your husband has to overcome an insidious psychological state - that will be challenging - but the first order of business is to understand exactly what condition prevails. It is not a moral crises, it is not a failing of character, it is not an act of unspeakable disloyalty to family, church, and god. It is a cleverly _induced_ psychological syndrome.

He should not entertain feelings of guilt, sorrow, regret, confusion, uncertainty, etc: those feelings should be contested as they arise. He _should_ recognize conditions for what they are: he was victimized, and it's high-time he kicked a pseudo-religion, its phony 'prophet' and 'priests', and its ridiculous doctrinal fabrications down the back-stairs of his life.




Mormonism: insulting to the intelligence of Mankind and injurious to His spirit.

Ok, I'm going to say it again. What Christian religion DOESN'T believe we'll be with our loved ones in heaven when we die?

What is it that makes people think they have to be Mormon in order to be with their families in heaven? This has got to be a classic example of fear mongering brainwashing. "Oh, no! I won't be with my wife and children if I'm not an active Mormon!"

Good grief.

Show him how much money he will save on tithing if he doesn't join. Then show him what that will buy - how many diapers? Car payments? Hours of child care?

If you're not wealthy, a new baby plus a limited income minus tithing can be a pretty convincing argument.

read the families forever thread together very enlightening

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,364129

The more research he does, the more evidence he will have, and this will absolutely strengthen his beliefs that Mormonism is completely false.

That's what I did and the more I read, the more and more convinced I am that Joseph made up the mormon religion.

One of the best books I've read is "Standing For Something More," by Lyndon Lambert. He really addresses all the psychological tactics that are used to keep you controlled. Your husband needs to be able to recognize when his parents start the psycho babble talk. And they will! He also takes you in a logical order the other ways things don't add up. He doesn't elaborate but gives excellent articles for you to explore (most from Church documents) to back up his claims. I wish I would have been able to read it when my in-laws tried to control our lives when we were in the same situation you are now.

Once I started reading I couldn't put it down and read it clear through.

I also agree with an above poster who said don't have specific religious discussions. It will make you crazy when you discover how unyielding TBM's are to different viewpoints and feelings.

Take a stand now, or you will find yourself compromising your values all the way towards your children's temple marriage, that you will probably not be allowed to attend.

You can't have any give or take on this. It is your life alone, and everything for you to give with nothing on the table to take back but what should already be yours.

If you still feel you have to give them something, tell them you will join the church, when independent science, not BYU professors, prove conclusively through DNA that the ancient Americans were all Jewish.

or ANY of their specific claims are verifiably accurate.

book of abraham, etc.

Hey burden of proof is on them, and having warm and tingly feelings is not evidence. Well, unless you are thirteen and trying to decide if you like girls or something.