Just like if life is going well it's a blessing from God and if things go bad it's a test.

why would he NOT want us, his children, to see him, our father? what real purpose does it serve? the POINT is that we are obedient. if we could see god, we would still have to choose to be obedient (just like our children who can see us, still have to choose to obey us, their parents). i see no point to the faith-without-seeing principle. i've said it before, its more like "foolish are they who believe without seeing" instead of "blessed". why would a father want his children to act like fools? its counter-intuitive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 06:16AM by Nick Humphrey.

If "faith" was such a good thing, why do we not practice such "faith" when buying a car? The truth is, relying on "faith" in our dealings with the world is a sure way to get ripped off, that includes many, if not all, churches.

its the people who claim to be his spokesmen who do. And He's shy.

The reason that absolutely nobody ever sees god or hears from him is that THERE IS NO GOD!

There are 6.7 billion people on the planet Earth. Making a WAG (wild-a$$-guess) those people generate 60 billion prayers a day.

And how many people get a spoken answer (one that could be recorded on a recording machine) from god? Zero! It never happens.

I wonder that too all the time. My current thinking is, the Xian god must be naked and hides himself from us because he saw that he was naked. :-)

This is by a person named Rahul and I fully agree: I was brushing up on my stoicism today and came across this quote by Marcus Aurelius:

‘Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.’

EXACTLY!!!EXACTLY!!!EXACTLY!!!, Who has seen god?, Does God exist?Is this god the god of just the Jews or only of the Hindus? Would this God automatically send to hell the atheist who has always spoken the truth, helped his fellow-man and led a good life but has never read the Bible? If so, would you want to worship such a God????

Even the wisest of the wise who claim to know the mysteries of creation have not seen God. On the other hand, there are certain values that everyone knows about and these are human values. Yet, more and more people today are only talking about Christain/Islamic/Hindu values and ideals etc. Look at the world today, with Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Jews and Christains ready to kill for the greater glory of their religion. Why? Just live a good life and let your character be a testament to the glory of your religion and you.

Marcus Aurelius got this in the 2nd Century. Why can’t we still get it in the 21st?

Gwylym Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> there are certain values that everyone
> knows about and these are human values. Yet, more
> and more people today are only talking about
> Christain/Islamic/Hindu values and ideals etc.
christopher hitchens writes: "Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."

> Marcus Aurelius got this in the 2nd Century. Why
> can’t we still get it in the 21st?

thanks for sharing his cool quote =)

Not an xian by any means, but may I ask why you limit God's provable existence only to the eyes? (Or the ears?)

Perhaps Science doesn't allow for what often gets called our 6th sense, but it seems true enough as a metaphor at least. Perhaps God is known to us via our emotions, our feelings or our 'inner sense'. After all, given the vastness of the Universe, our other 5 senses aren't worth much.

I think God reveals itself via metaphor, an ability seemingly unique to humans and therefore something to value, practice and preserve.

Human Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not an xian by any means, but may I ask why you
> limit God's provable existence only to the eyes?
> (Or the ears?)
>
> Perhaps Science doesn't allow for what often gets
> called our 6th sense, but it seems true enough as
> a metaphor at least. Perhaps God is known to us
> via our emotions, our feelings or our 'inner
> sense'.
for one thing, visual and audible perception is something everyone understands (except the few blind and deaf). you might as well ask why doesnt god talk to us in the shwingshwong language or by our 7th sense? because nobody knows what the fcuk these things are. do you communicate with your non-deaf, english speaking children using chinese sign language?

> After all, given the vastness of the
> Universe, our other 5 senses aren't worth much.

well, i think all the understanding science has given us about the goings on in our solar system, in our galaxy, etc are NOT because scientists have been using their 6th sense. what testable, quantifiable, generally accepted and understood information about the universe can you cite that was perceived by someone's 6th sense?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 03:07PM by Nick Humphrey.

Are you suggesting Scientists don't have/use intuition? I've a gut feeling that a lot of scientific discovery begins with and is guided by a hunch, or several of them.

idunno, maybe I dreamnt it.

Cheers

They do not believe what they arrived at via intuition is necessarily true UNTIL they can find solid empirical evidence to back up that intuitive thought.

Scientist do NOT take their intuitive thoughts as truth or proof of ANYTHING. They use involution to get IDEAS then TEST those ideas to see if they are scientifically valid. No 6th is involved in intuition, imagination or speculation, all of which are used by scientists to come up with ideas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 12:10AM by MJ.

An emotional, spiritual, or faith connection is more bonding that eyes and ears.

It requires humility and effort. You have to seek for Him. If it was easy, it would mean little.

Knowing that you'll make a fortune coming in and putting time into my company selling noni juice can't be determined beforehand by reading about the business or by checking about MLM's. It only comes from the feeling you get when I talk to you about how much money you will make and how good my product is for you.

But really are you are doing is making something up. What evidence do you have of any sort of "6th sense" that is really God talking to you?

IF there was such a sense, then why would there have been over 4000 Gods that people have believed in? How come there are so many different version of Christianity? If God was talking to believers through some "inner sense" wouldn't god be sharing the same message with everyone so everyone would be on the same page?

No, sorry, but your "sense" really makes no sense and can be dismissed without much thought.

It is a human that testifies of god existence.

It is a human the relays what god says.

It is a human that becomes god policeman.

It is a human the relays god’s rule’s.

It is a human that becomes god’s witness.

It is a human that becomes god’s enforcer.

Why can’t this entity testify, speak, police, witness or enforce things all by his all powerful self?

Since when is Obedience the object? (You asked of Christians). It's the Morgbot God that demands obedience, but I don't think most Christians would not say he does if you asked. Yeah, don't quote scripture, because you can find anything in Scripture to support both sides of any argument.

Why doesn't he show himself? Human life is like a one second blink (less than that) compared to eternity. Yes, Christians believe they'll live forever, but they don't know how, and no one can say with certainty. The time on earth is just a blip, like a father sending his kid on a Ferris wheel. The kid can't see the father while on the ride. When he gets off the Ferris wheel (death) the next ride may be the roller coaster on some other planet, followed by merry-go-round after that (figuratively speaking).

As Q in STNG would say, eternity can get awfully boring, so there has to be some diversion. The time spent on earth is a diversion.

Last I heard if you sin against God's commandments and don't repent like a good obedient Christian, you are not getting into heaven.

Maybe because heavenly father might look like Donald Trump, Colonel Gaddafi or Glenn Beck or something...

... and wouldn't that be disappointing!

Now if HF looked like a young delicious Marlon Brando....

If we are going to throw around aphorisms, how about this:
"The level of nonsense in a statement is inversely proportional to the certainty with which it is stated".


I got that from my SQRT(2) sense. Yes, that's an irrational sense. The 6th sense isn't even prime. Pathetic.

On the other hand, 6 is a perfect number, so maybe it makes perfect sense? Oh, my........

He did reveal himself to humans. His name is Jesus of Nazareth. The people demanded that he put him on a cross to be crucified.

The same thing would happen today.

He will return some day in his good timing.

PS: This might seem like preaching but you asked for it.

No they didn't.

No they wouldn't

No he won't.

But I do think he asked for it.

What is the proof? A Book? Why is the Bible any more true than the Baghavad Ghita, the Popul Vuh, Dianetics or any other set of scripture?

Why is a Christian's testimony so much more true than the testimony of someone from another religion?

Gwylym Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the proof? A Book? Why is the Bible any
> more true than the Baghavad Ghita, the Popul Vuh,
> Dianetics or any other set of scripture?
>
> Why is a Christian's testimony so much more true
> than the testimony of someone from another
> religion?


Get a book from a well known Christian apologist and then decide if the claims might be legitimate. And then research the other side. You might be surprised.

I have. I have read both sides. Studied the Bible in Greek and Hebrew. Have studied Canaanite religion, Judaism, Navajo Religion, Mayan religion, and other world religions and with what I have read and studied in depth I have come to the conclusion that the Jesus claims are a myth.

Since the vast majority of the world population does not believe in Jesus or Christianity, it is rather arrogant of you to just make a proclamation as if it were fact.

It is only arrogant if it is not true.

In any event, I am not saying you have to agree with me.

So stop shoving your BELIEFS down my throat as fact.

I wasn't. My original posting was responding to the guy who started the thread. Like I said, you do not have to agree with me.

Question: Am I not supposed to have a belief and express it when it differs from yours? I am the minority view here, relax.