I am a long time lurker that finally registered. Thanks to information on this board, I submitted my resignation and received my official exit letter several months ago.

When I used to attend church, I couldn't stand to hear 'testimonies' about people praying to God about lost car keys and other trivial items (the worst had to be someone talking about God reviving their dead goldfish). That God answered their prayers because they had such great faith.

I find that statement very hurtful. I prayed to God multiple times a day when I was a child about very serious situations. So because my prayers were not answered, it made me feel that I wasn't faithful enough. That's enough to screw up a kid's head.

So glad I found my way out from this crazy manipulation scheme disguised as a church.

A friend who told me he was praying about which school to go to. He didn't think he'd gotten an answer. That's a pretty big decision that could effect your life. Still, I looked him straight in the eye and said; "Do you really think that god cares where you go to school!!?? Make a decision already!"

The car keys thing was even worse. People pray for world peace, and for their husband to come home safe from Iraq. Why would an all powerful god ignore those prayers and help someone find their damn keys?

Some years back, my daughter & her husband were looking for a place to live.
They had some TBM friends (another couple their own age, mid 20s) who owned a small apartment they wanted to rent out.

Daughter said she & husband were interested. Friends said they'd also gotten a request by "some" male college students to rent the place.

Friends could not, for some reason, make up their minds who to rent to.
So, they prayed for guidance. Guidance was duly received, the apartment was rented to the college kids, who within six months had trashed it & were behind on the rent.

For some unfathomable reason, God apparently thought it would be a better bet on the students than on a responsible young married couple with two jobs.

The friends are still wondering why their guidance was so mis-guided, and bewildered over the inevitable outcome.

I have a relative with a series of major "inspired" decisions going wrong, yet she still believes she was doing what Heavenly Father wanted, that it was a test or a lesson or something. Yeah, the lesson is to use your brain instead of your invisible friend.

Mormons bone this one up quite often.

The bible says to pray for wisdom, which to me says to clear your mind and use your wisdom. Often times our judgment in situations are tainted by feelings of loyalty or misguided morality.

If you pray for knowledge and you don't already have that knowledge then your prayer will be returned null and revert to your other feelings to tell you "truth". But if you pray for wisdom your mind is cleared of the other restrictions and you are allowed to make the clear and proper decision.

I pray for stupid stuff all the time but the outcome has no real bearing on life. If your prayer was not answered it doesn't mean his time was taken up by lost keys prayers. God is not confined by any timeline.

Typical creationist copout:

"the bible says pray for wisdom which TO ME says clear your mind and use your wisdom..."

Oh, that makes perfect sense. You're praying to a god you don't know exists to help you do something you don't need his help to do?

Clear as mud..

I remember when I was investigating and the lesson was about prayer. Some guy the missionaries brought told me how his daughter lost their camera in Disney land, so they sat on a bench and prayed and low and behold someone handed the camera in to lost property. More to do with luck that the power of prayer.

When a testimony like that is presented during testimony meeting I turn to my wife and say "why can he find car keys but not prevent child abuse?". I usually get an eye roll.

big stumbling block for me, and one of the things which led me out of religion altogether

why would god answer a prayer to help someone find their car keys, but ignore the sincere and piteous prayers and cries of 6 million innocent jews (and others) during the holocaust.

that is one f****d up god

So here I am in Utah trying to earn a living to feed my family. However all weekend long my phone is silent and I get no phone calls. Nobody is losing their car keys and needing my help to unlock their car doors. Maybe I should be praying more?

Oddly, my daughter, who is going on a mission soon, lost her car keys. We all prayed to find them.

Nothing.

$180 later we had two new keys (with the chips in them).

Anywho, my belief is that prayer is not required. But if I say more I'll get attacked here.

So, yea, you're right, prayer doesn't "work", at least in any way resembling what religious people think. FYI.

OMG! This drives me BONKERS!!!! I can't tell you the number of trite testimonies we heard while all of our REAL prayers went unanswered. One lady went on and on about how she said a little prayer and was "inspired" to buy a neighbor kid THE VERY TRAIN HE'D ALWAYS WANTED!!! How could she have possibly known that?? Gawd IS real!!! He REALLY DOES answer prayers!!! Another lady went on about how she gets seasonal depression and she was feeling a little down and guess what? GOD MADE THE SUN SHINE REALLY BRIGHT THROUGH HER WINDOW!!!!! Just for a few minutes, but she knew it was him telling her how much she was loved...

Seriously, gag. How arrogant to think that god is doing any of these small things for you when there is such real need in the world. Do you really want to believe in someone who can find your car keys but won't stop mass genocide?

To me it seems like these people get off on telling the world that they have had a testimony about some trivial thing, a sort of manipulation. Personally, I believe that these types of "testimonies" (not the car keys - that's just dumb) should be kept to oneself and the announcement and speaking of it takes away from the beauty and the effectiveness of it. To me, it is similar to seeing a beautiful sunset and being amazed at the wonder of the beauty and miracle of it - this is a personal feeling that I would rather keep to and in myself.

I don't think a planet rotating on its axis qualifies as a miracle...

We can live our lives as if nothing is a miracle. We can live our lives as if everything is a miracle. ~ Albert Einstein

You know, I lost my car keys a lot when I was a TBM, and I still do as an apostate. Funny thing is I always found them after praying when TBM, but I also always still find them without praying as an apostate. It's almost as if they prayer had no actual bearing on me finding my car keys.

Yep, it is that quiet little pause that allows your brain to settle down and sort out the possibilities.

We have a set of keys we haven't been able to find for about a month now. Anyone out there want to put their praying powers to the test? It would really be nice if we could find them.

If your prayers are answered, I'll buy you a drink next time I'm in your area.

Should I put you on the prayer list of the temple. That way you can have all those guys in those silly robes repeating "and Let Mia find her missing keys" after it is spoken by the temple worker.

In the King James Bible, Matthew 12:39 it says: "But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah."

And yet when Christians pray for something and they magically get what they prayed for, then they interpret that outcome as a sign that God has heard and answered their prayer. Here is the problem with that approach: if you seek a sign from God that cannot possibly happen unless God takes action, then that outcome will never happen.

Example: take a penny and place it tails up in some out of the way place. Then ask God to flip the coin to heads up. Check on the coin after an hour. It will still be tails up. Check on the coin after a day, a week, a month, a year. It will continue to be tails-up. Each time you check on the coin, remind God that you want it flipped, just in case s/he has forgotten.

This scenario will continue indefinitely. I have been waiting forty years for God to flip my coin, and it hasn't happened. The reason is either (1) God doesn't exist, or (2) God doesn't hear and answer my prayer. Either way, it is a total waste of my time to pray. So I am an atheist.

I guess that God wants me to be an atheist. That's the answer!

"I guess that God wants me to be an atheist. That's the answer!"

Yes the biblical God is an athiest, he doesn't believe in God himself.

ISAIAH 45:5

"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God besides me: I girded you, though you have not known me:"

Christmas Eve I pulled up to my house expecting that my wife and inlaws had already left to go to another family members house. They were all standing in the driveway gathered around the uncle's truck. I walk up and ask them why they were still there. They told me that the uncle had lost his keys. Apperently they had all been looking for them for quite some time and had all become very distraught. All the women went inside the house.

I asked if he had them when he got here. - Yes

I asked if he had gone anywhere but right around the truck - No

I asked if he had double checked all his pockets - Yes

The uncle told me he opened the tailgate and rearanged some items.

I pulled out my phone, turned on the flashlight app. First I checked around the front passenger seat, then I looked in the gap between the tailgate and the bed of the truck. The two places I was told that the uncle had been.

I found the keys sitting one the frame that the bumper attaches to.

I go inside the house and tell the women that I found the keys. The first comment I here - Oh wow, that prayer was answered quickly.

I just rolled my eyes and kept walking.

Typical - God did it, not you, you get no thanks, but God, who was nowhere in the neighborhood, gets the credit.

I had a similar (amongst many) stupid experiences in EQ lesson about prayer when I asked the Elders Quorom teacher if he personally had an example of a prayer being answered?

His reply was yes, he was playing football and hadn't scored any goals yet that season, so he put it in 'prayer to the lord' and hey presto scored a hat trick on the next game.

My thought immediately was that Mormon God is interested in helping LDS goals being scored but not helping a woman or child about to be slaughtered, raped, abused etc.

It made me angry.

And the car keys BS was yet another BS indicator for me. How on earth I endured that drivvle for two years is beyond me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2011 05:44PM by zeezrom.

I have an idea for a new product. It's like one of those key chain finders, but instead of whistling, you send your key chain a message via your cellphone or computer. It then start's chirping until you find it. I don't like the whistle chains, because they always beep at the wrong time, like while your trying to stealthily move through a dark house.

I have an in law (not Mormon) who says "I don't know what God wants for my life."

I am nonplussed.

From @EmilyJillette:
Why don't religious people agree with this?
http://lockerz.com/s/169018406.

Hahaha