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Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 02:46PM

I was just noticing how much I hate the phrase "the bishop." For me it's one of the two most annoying phrases in all of Mormondom, the other one being "the gospel."

My mom uses "the bishop" a lot in her church babbling. That's her way of telling me what's going on in her life--which usually involves church or people from church, and don't even think about getting a word in edgewise, so I call it the church babbling.

The bishop this, the bishop that. Everyone has a name but this one guy. All I need to know about him, apparently, is he's "the bishop." I have no idea how old he is, what he looks like, or what he does for a living. It's a safe bet that he has a wife and some kids. Other than that, he's like the male "no photo" icon. Insert man face here, any one will do.

The bishop's identity consists of things I happen to know "the bishop" does, and is completely interchangeable with all other Mormon bishops.

I'm trying to think of an example from normal (i.e., non-Mormon) society where a person gets a particular job and becomes this nameless, authoritative blob and it no longer matters who they are. I'm coming up blank.

As for why the phrase annoys me, other than the authoritative blob and the assumption that I need no additional information about the person inside the blob, I don't know.

I've always had a problem with the bishop. He began to annoy me even before I became aware of his imaginary authority, long before was ever summoned to his office at the behest of some snoopy snitch to be guilt-tripped for this, that, or the other thing that I now know is perfectly normal.

One of my earliest church memories is of sitting in opening exercises for Primary--and I know it was what was then called Junior Primary, because it was in the chapel with the little kid pews, so I wouldn't have been older than about the 1st grade--and they introduced a new song with the line "he's our bishop" in the chorus. I only remember that one line, but I thought it was a dumb song, and my friend Cristy and I sang, "Heee's arrrr bii-SHUP!," shifting left and right with every syllable and laughing our little fannies off.

I guess it's just a stupid-sounding name for a stupid job.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2011 04:16PM by munchybotaz.

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Posted by: dthenonreligious ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 02:47PM


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Posted by: Raptor Jesus ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 04:35PM


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Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 10:17PM

Oh I hated the bishop all right. I called him the bell hop.

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Posted by: onlyme ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 02:55PM

The last bishop I worked with as exec secretary used to refer to himself in PEC meetings as "the bishop" or "your bishop". As in "the bishop visited brother x this week" or "the bishop has decided that we will no longer have saturday potlucks once a month". It came across, to me at least, as very smug and annoying.

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Posted by: derrida ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 09:55AM

That's all kinds of dissociated or alienated. Referring to himself in the third person via his church title no less. Does he show any other signs of mental illness or retardation, aside from being Mormon?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 09:56AM by derrida.

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Posted by: lily ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:04PM

"the temple"

There are how many temples out there, yet couples say they got married in "the" temple, not "a" temple.

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Posted by: VultureTamer ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:08PM

your bishop is Elmo. Elmo loves cookies. Elmo is going to check the mail. Elmo has four wives. Elmo loves yoooooou. Elmo thinks speaking in third person is the best way to communicate with people under age three.

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Posted by: nowI'mfound ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 08:40AM

Which is basically the mental maturity needed to WANT to keep going to this church for long, LOL

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:18PM

My last bishop was in his mid 70's. He would sit up on the stand and fall asleep every sunday. It was hilarious. This is who the sp chose to lead the youth. Yeah right. Just as soon as nap time is over.

I was in the room when he was set apart. The sp was going on and on about how wonderful it was to hand pick who you were going to work with. All the sudden the room got reallly quiet. He realized is mistake, and mumbled something about getting a revelation about it too. Cat was out of the bag, he couldn't put it back in.

The bishop before that was the one and only bishop I've ever liked. He wasn't afraid to speak his mind, and he went to bat for people a lot. The sp hated that, and couldn't wait to get rid of this guy he couldn't control.

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Posted by: jerry64 ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 04:51PM

he is only an acronym?

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Posted by: Stunted ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:28PM

It isn't the individual that currently occupies the office of bishop. Although the individual is often a total jerk. Just the idea that "THE BISHOP" is automatically respected/feared/worshiped drives me nuts.

Stuned

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 03:28PM

just talking to my boyfriend while we were walking around the neighborhood and he asked why I still call several people in the neighborhood "the bishop"--and asked, "if they get promoted, do you still call them bishop?"

I know--stupid, isn't it--but it is also easier to explain to him some things because he has been around for almost 3 bishops now--and the last one was the one I found intolerable.

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 04:45PM

as in "flogging the..."

:D

Someone had to say it.

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Posted by: scooter ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 09:24AM

he knows he's been bad.

only one thing to do. It's expected.

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Posted by: bigred ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 04:48PM

I do hate when people acquiesce to the supposed authority of the all knowing 'bishop' however I don't even know who my current bishop is let alone hate him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2011 04:54PM by bigred.

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Posted by: derrida ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 04:54PM

Me. I think I hate him b/c I hate how fine a man he is combined with what he does to himself for the sake of his unquestioned devotion to the utter hypocritical delusion that is the LDS church. The church so unfairly colonizes and parasitizes so many good people. The church is false but the people are good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2011 04:55PM by derrida.

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Posted by: Timothy ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 04:56PM

... as if it owns exclusive rights to the title or something.

That's why I call it "the cult"

Just seems to have a more accurate ring!

Timothy

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Posted by: untarded ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 05:01PM

This popped into my mind as soon as I read the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDnE-5lD7w8

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 05:03PM


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Posted by: The Bishop's Wife ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 05:04PM


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Posted by: sam ( )
Date: December 30, 2011 09:56PM

Personally, I have been bothered by SP's as much as Bishops. The thing that has always bothered me (for many years) is that if the Bishop said it, it must be right (or from God). I have seen and heard some of the most ridiculous things I could ever imagine coming from Bishops, SP, and EQP. Sometimes it was so appalling, I could not believe it.

Having served as a Bishop, you just make decisions using the best judgement you can. Unfortunately, some Bishops have better judgement than others. Some Bishops are on a power-trip, some Bishops are so biased and favor their friends and their friend's family members (callings, disciplinary councils, etc.), and some are good buddies with the SP and serve as Bishop only because of that friendship. But some Bishops are great guys and are sincere and humble. Unfortunately, they are affected by the weird rules and council of the church.

Some Bishops I liked very much--they earned my respect. Others are in over their heads in leading others or let the calling go to their heads. But, as I said before, to just accept the idea that if the bishop says it, it must be right is bullshit.

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 02:33AM

And some are just tired, and want a nap!

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 02:35AM

I NEVER thought of a bishop as being my father, or my kids father. We already have dysfunctional fathers. We didn't have a need to add another one to the list.

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Posted by: The StalkerDog™ ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 08:22AM

"Cheerful as he serves the Lord,
He’s our bishop.
He’s the father of our ward;
He’s our bishop.
He helps us to do the right
In our Heav’nly Father’s sight.
We love him with all our might;
He’s our bishop."
*******************************

Aw, dangit. I just barfed all over mom's new rug.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 10:02AM

Wait, isn't their a BOM verse that specifically says you should not give religious leaders the title father? Maybe it wasn't BOM, maybe it was teachings or something, but I know I have seen it somewhere in Mormondom.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 10:32AM

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

KJV of the Bible

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 10:34AM

That's it. I didn't remember it being in the bible. I do remember it being our go to hate the Catholics scripture while on my mission. How funny that the Church does the same thing.

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Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 11:48AM

Or I'm guessing it is, because I have no memory of the words other than

"Heee's arrrr bii-SHUP!"

I have to say the second verse is extremely ridiculous.

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Posted by: forestpal ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 04:49AM

I refuse to use the upper case for mormon titles! They are meaningless and made up. We should capitalize "janitor" or "librarian" or "organist."

From now on, it is sp and not SP, etc.

I also cringe when people say "The Church", "The Temple" and "The Choir".

It is all arrogance.

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Posted by: Socrates2 ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 05:34AM

I wouldn't call a friend. We just believed differently.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 09:42AM

but I think you meant not hating a person who was "the bishop" so much as hating the honorific "the bishop" minus a name. "The bishop" stops being a person and becomes a title -- one to be venerated just because he's "the bishop."

Of course, hating bishops themselves is totally cool with me.

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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 09:56AM

If he was still just Brother Brown from down the street, you could tell him to butt out of your business or you could question his judgement.

But the second he's the BISHOP, then you aren't allowed to criticize or doubt him.

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Posted by: munchybotaz ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 11:38AM

I was wondering if everyone got it. :)

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Posted by: derrida ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 12:30PM

I think what's great about this thread, this topic, is that it invites posters to consider both, the role and the individual men, as they are intertwined in our experience of the church. Note the contradictoriness of that very problem: He's some dude in your neighborhood; he's Bro. Soandso. Now he's The Bishop, the BitchMaster, the Feared Judge of Israel, the Chosen of God, the Inspired Prophet for Our Ward Family, etc., etc. There are a lot of messed up feelings that need sorting out b/c of that bit of condensation the church pulls on its members. Clearly I have strong feelings about the men who were my bishops. I think all of them were good men, able men, and yet here they were the face of a known evil on earth, men I trusted, worked with for years, and looked to for advice. Betrayal is one word that starts to cover some of the feelings, feelings of anger and hurt that have to be connected to recovery. (I recall a consummate blowhard in our ward, called to the EQP after I was released, and how self-preening he was, how seriously he took the calling, how he conferred in hushed tones with his wife, etc. The church must get lots of buy-in from the able (and not so able) men that it seduces into these oversized, self-important, strait-jacketed authority roles.)

As to the assumed importance of the phrase, yes, it's an interesting point. I remember a second counselor referring to our bishop not just as "the bishop," although he did that too, but often he would just say, "Bishop wants us to go do X," or "Bishop says we can't do that," or "Bishop told me Y." No definite article at all. Just the noun, like the guy was a god or something. Talk about assumed importance.

To these Mormons their Bishops are the Lord's spokesman here on earth. Of course they are going to venerate them and talk about them the same way other devoted religious folks talk about their leaders, e.g., "Our preacher said," "The priest told us X"; though I have to admit that when my Catholic sister talks about her priest, it's "Father Tim," and not "the Father" or "the Priest." And my protestant relatives will talk about "Our pastor," or "Pastor Roberts," but not "the pastor," although their saying that wouldn't throw me. Seems like the move in mainstream Christianity is not to automatically venerate the title so much without filling it with an individual name, a person, an identity beyond the title.

Mormons will speak of "Bishop Thomas," "Bishop Jones," but they will slip all too easily, eerily so, into saying "the Bishop." I think their frequency of doing this is an indicator of their lack of individuation, their reliance on an outside authority to tell them what to do. The more likely they are to refer to "the Bishop" as just that phrase, the title itself being enough to invoke all the powers of the church in their ward, the more likely they are, and to that degree, "church broke," brainwashed in fact into the authoritarianism that rules their lives. Those of us who have shaken off that programming, who are able to view the church critically, see how odd such veneration of just a title is. These people venerate the title so much, invest so much into it, that merely by saying the title, they believe they have spoken the whole truth and authority of the church, and they expect you, us, their audience to respond accordingly. It's a way of assuming what needs to be proved; i.e., that "the Bishop" has extraordinary powers of discernment and insight and is a force to be reckoned with on par with the powers of Heaven and God almighty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2011 12:32PM by derrida.

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Posted by: MSW ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 10:53AM

My brother in law became Bishop of my husband's ward. The second that he did, my husband stopped referring to him by name but as Bishop. It was extremely weird when he said,"the Bishop is dropping by", rather than Carl is coming over.
I thought why are you speaking to me like this? I'm not even Mormon!

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: December 31, 2011 11:41AM

Many--in fact.

The one who asked me about masturbation and necking and petting from age 12 on up.

The one who I had to get a TR from during my fiasco of an engagement and marriage (who happened to be my cousin who thought and still thinks he is pretty d*mn special).

The one who used to be my friend for years and then asked me if I was giving my gay ex enough sex, as if I was, he wouldn't have strayed.

Or the one who called me to repentence and almost turned my daughter against me.

I have known some really good people in my life--who as soon as they were called as a bishop, became an as*hole.

Oh--then there was my uncle who was also a SP--and he tried to have his wife of 62 years declared incompetent so she couldn't spend his money after he died . . .

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