Of those 14M, roughly only about 4-5M are active. Most of those members are born into the church and are not converts. Also, of those numbers they run from the very old to the very young, so there is a lot of generational ties.
It isn't like the church was able to trick a whole 14Million people into joining. The good news is that while the church is growing numerically through third world baptisms and births to existing members, the retention rate of new converts (who become participating members) is very low, and putting other factors like death, resignations and plain old inactivity, the real growth of the church is just about Zero.
cumorah.com has some excellent resources and articles explaining these numbers.
Most tbm's are raised Mo, and brainwashed or coerced by their extended families to stay active. Many more are foreign-born, and lack education and easy access to the evidence.
Two thirds of the claimed members are inactive, and a whole lot of the active don't believe. So the number of believers is not really that great.
The number of recommend-holding, priesthood believers is relatively small. I have no stats, but just look at your local stake-how many recommend holders, compared to total stake membership? And a lot of them don't really believe it.
With enough faith, one dupes one's self. No outside effort at duping is required. Why faith? 'Cause its so much easier than thinking and people tend to be lazy.
Don't they keep records til you are 110 too, even if you are dead? I think I read that somewhere, if they purged those and every non-believer staying for family resigned you would see far lower numbers.
If they deleted everybody who didn't donate any money, or didn't set foot in an LDS chapel for a year or more, they'd be the world's fastest shrinking church.
Brainwashing and emotional/mental/spiritual abuse are very effective. Fear is a reliable and time-honoured method of controlling members of most organized religions. These techniques are extraordinary at keeping people ignorant, narrow-minded, foolish sheeple. It's hard to break out of that mindset, especially if it's all one knows.
I think it's slowly changing thanks to all the information at our fingertips. If I want to cross-check something that sets off my bullshit meter, I can do it within seconds. People all over the world are learning that "just because 'insert authority figure' says so, doesn't make it true."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2011 08:22PM by Itzpapalotl.
Angilina, I am also new here, but already you are becoming one my favorite regulars. What ever ugly episodes you may have coming; divorce, having to explain your discoveries to friends and loved ones, dealing with your children's well being, will be stuff that you will be able to deal with as they come up. Don't give up. Remember to use reason and logic to think things through, and you will always come ahead to those who hide from truth. Keep asking the right questions, and here's hoping that you will have a much brighter future ahead.
I feel that I am at a crossroad in my life right now, and I see it as something positive. At the end of the day, you make it what it is. As I am finding out about the Church, I feel that I am taking my power back. My family in France has always been against the Church actually.....they're not religious in general. I know that my future is bright. I am glad to meet different people and learn about their expeiences on here as it surely increases my hopes!
angelina5 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- My family in France has > always been against the Church > actually.....they're not religious in general.
It was the same with my non-religious, non-Mormon family. After I left they said, "Okay, so now we can tell you what we really thought about that weird church you belonged to."
I appreciate that they were supportive while I was a member. I'd no idea they felt that way. I'm grateful they're now supportive and actually happy that I've left.
Oh my gosh I just came across your comment on the law of tithing and its origins in the ancient theocratic state a few minutes ago. I was going to let you know how much I have enjoyed your posts and that I have learned a lot from you!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2011 10:22PM by angelina5.
I liked that one. If the Mormon church was the sole provider of roads, police, fire fighters, schools, national defense and welfare systems, then they would have a need for ten percent of our money. Thank God though that they don't do those things. Could you imagine how much it would suck? Kind of makes you appreciate what life must be like in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
The LDS Church is excellent at scaring people away from even looking at information which reveals the truth about the Church. When you finally get the courage to look, you find out why they do that - because it's the truth.
The first time I started reading stuff on an ex-Mormon website, it took me days of trying, to get farther than a few pages. I kept feeling all creeped out, like I shouldn't be there. It scared me. Their tactics had worked.
When curiosity got the better of me and I had to read, I couldn't stop reading. The more I read about the truth, the angrier I got.
From what I have read, there are only about 4 to 5 million active members. From what I have read hear, many of those 4 to 5 million don't really believe. Some are to young to believe anything, some go and act as if in order to make family happy.
I think a lot of them don't even think to question. I joined the church when I was 12 with my mom. I was always surrounded by Mormons. In church, I was taught Mormon-think. I attended BYU and had my whole Mormon-centric view of the world validated. I was taught Mormonism was an admirable way to live, one others looked up to. I went on a mission and married in the temple. I was so busy with church stuff, callings, raising children, Mormon friends that it never, ever crossed my mind to question.
When I found out that they might be lying to me about the first vision, I was shocked. And obsessed. I spent hours a day, up til 3:00 a.m. trying to find out if I'd been lied to and if the church wasn't what I'd always believed it to be. I HAD to know. But even at that, I was different because I wasn't particularly happy at this point in my life and because I'd finally worked out something in my personal life that kept me stubbornly clinging to Mormonism. If I'd been even moderately happy or still clinging to my Mormon security blanket, I would have turned my back on the info (it was from Satan, dontcha know?) and run in the other direction. I think a lot of members do the same. They NEED to be Mormon because they've invested too much or they are too afraid of the consequences to let go of the church. Too afraid to even look at the possibility the church is wrong. That fear keeps them enslaved. Fear and validation of their point of view and not having the time to examine the church too closely.
Or 1 billion Catholics, 105 million Pentecostals, 73 million Anglicans, 70 million Baptists, 70 million Methodists, 64 million Lutherans...?
People tend toward the religions they were raised in, the culture they live in.
It's not coincidental that the highest concentration of Mormons is in Utah and surrounding states. (Well, and Tonga.) Mormons breed Mormons. Half the Mormons in the world are in North America.
Most people don't really go seeking after religious capital-T Truth. They're lazy and just go with what they've been told. Or they go with something else when they're told a prettier story. Mormon "investigators" don't actually investigate. They listen to some selected stories and nice promises that fit with what they already hope is true. Oooo, God loves me, has a plan for me, and my family can be together forever? Sounds good. Then 75% of converts disappear within a few months. "I didn't know I was buying THAT."
For DH and I both born in the church, indoctrination begins at birth. It is tragic and shocking to have that mormon filter removed and realize the world isn't what you thought. And while we can never go back to that state of TBM innocence and naivete, there is true sadness in having to turn away from something we know means so much to our extended families. Some people would rather not see than to have to deal with the fallout from the truth.
Angelina, I am going to point out why you were right with the 14 million person mark. While there are not really 14 million members right now, there are probably 14 million people right now who fell for this BS at one time or another in their life. Just remember what Abraham Lincoln said, "You can fool some of the people all the time, and all the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time." Welcome to the ones who can't be fooled all the time.
I can think of worse things. How about if any one of us was subject to public human sacrifice at any time? Well, perhaps all these religious freaks ain't so bad after all. Until......BOOOOMmmmm ok....uh...back to the drawing board.
metaphysical, supernatural, visionary claims that are, in the main, more acceptable as "truth" than any other kind, when one looks at the billions and billions of human beings that have based their whole reason for living on those notions throughout the history of humanity. God Myths are the core of almost every society known to humanity.
It's the same pattern in Mormonism as most other religions that human beings accept and believe and practice. There are really only a few variables, and levels. The core changes slightly, but it's accepted as a "higher truth" than anything else, generally.
Religion is not a math equation that is solved by finding X! :-)
The biggest mistake we can make, in my view, is to use reason and logic to counter faith based beliefs. It does not work that way. People do not reason themselves out of something they didn't reason themselves into....paraphrasing Richard Dawkins.
Billions and billions of human beings that believe in some spiritual "truth" are not duped, or brainwashed. They are responding to what some call: The God Part of the Brain. It's so prevalent to believe in a deity/s that it's come to be given a place in the human brain as a normal, natural part.
To understand The Big Picture, I recommend reading: The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell. The hardback is a fantastic book. I found that educating myself about the religious views of the centuries gave me an understanding of Mormonism that I didn't have otherwise.
Too often, we get caught up in our own little world: culture, home, family, religion with it's traditions. We think that Mormonism, for instance is all there is to the world as that is all we see, feel, experience in many cases. The world is much, much bigger, however. I have never been able to travel to see the edifices of the oldest religions but what I have seen, amazes me at the incredible creativity of the human mind to honor it's deities.