I've been inactive since 2007, and have not given the church my address since 2008. I have since moved twice, and in November 2010 I resigned my membership. There is no possibility that the church could have gotten my address from me or guessed where I lived without some real effort. (Or being ratted out by family members.)

I was out for the holidays, and in my mail when I got back was a certified mail card indicating that I had a letter from the church, but that it required my signature.

But I'm finding this situation very stressful and wanted to reach out for help on these boards. What on earth can they have to say to me? Why send some certified letter? Has anyone else ever gotten something like this? What can I expect the letter to contain?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2012 04:33PM by Susan I/S.

If you resigned in 2010, why does it matter? Could just be a local leader trying to confirm your address.

Could be related to another member - were you sealed and divorced? If so, your ex could be attempting to revoke the sealing.

My advice would be to not sign for it. They have no authority over you.

If you don't want LD$ Inc. to find you then don't give your address to family members.

And have that silly letter returned to sender.

If so, and he is remarrying in the temple, than this is a routine letter from his bishop asking if he is up to date with child support payments, alimony, etc.

Another possibility is that this is an underhanded way of confirming your address.

Either way, I personally wouldn't pick it up. What could the church say to you that could possibly matter?

But I do understand that receiving a notice about a certified letter can distressing.

To accept it would only encourage the stalking.

I definitely wouldn't even pick it up. You're not a member anymore, so what could they possibly have to say to you?

The only thing I could think of would be if you had once been sealed and perhaps your ex-spouse needs your permission to be sealed to someone else. They don't need permission, but they ask anyway, which is really stupid.

But, other than that, I can't imagine what they'd want, except to try and verify that they've managed to track you down again. Creepy is right.

To satisfy your curiosity, read what they sent. Maybe it includes something you want to have some say over. Maybe not. Won't know until you read it.

But if you don't want to deal with any of it, ignore all of it. You have that choice.

It could be a special invite to see the seer stones!

more like a tithing bill

possible borrow irs trick and estimate you made a couple million so owe your tithing on that

would not surprise me any

irs favorite is part time at mcdonalds never matters - they estimate you made a million because the budget is short and never surprise me if mormon try to borrow scam tricks like that

not to be political but explaining the scam

+1!!! ;o))

I was sealed before, but I had the sealing canceled about a year and a half before I had the courage to resign completely. My ex was gay and seeing men from the internet at the time that I left him after 2 1/2 years of very frustrating marriage. I didn't know going into it, and because you can't try before you buy in Mormonism, it wasn't until I was rejected on my honeymoon that I knew something was amiss. Once I knew his "struggles" with "same sex attraction" had moved on to actions, I finally decided to ignore my priesthood leaders and file for divorce.

He threw himself into complete denial after that, playing the piety card left and right. I'm out of the church, but it's not impossible that he's trying to fool himself into thinking that another marriage will un-gay him.

If this is the church attempting to ask me about another marriage for him, what are some opinions on how to act? He's known he was gay since he was 12. I have no reason to believe that he has addressed his deep-seated self-loathing and repression and I do not believe bringing a second marriage at this point would turn out any better than the first.

Mostly I want nothing to do with the situation. I can't imagine what kind of LDS girl would become engaged to him, as after we split up he was arrested for possession of child pornography. The details of his arrest are all over the internet and easily discoverable if you know his name. I don't want to be dragged into taking responsibility for him yet again, but I also struggle with the idea that if I have information the church may find relevant, it would be unfair to withhold it.

From the LDS viewpoint, he has never repented properly for deceiving me and cheating on me. He never expressed remorse and never even acknowledged that he did anything wrong. I'm no theologian but I'm pretty sure from a bishop's point of view a statement of apology, however brief and hollow, would be necessary to close the book on the sin of adultery. Any ex-bishops with a doctrinal viewpoint?

Gahh. Will this church never just get out of my life? I put down the baggage a long time ago but it just seems to magically clunk along behind me.

I would say it's up to you.

If indeed they are asking about him, what you say in return may or may not be taken into consideration. From what I've read on this board, the latter is more likely.

>he was arrested for possession of child pornography.

They might be hold a court of love (sic) for him and could consider calling you as a witness.

Unless he has found a woman with children to batten on to?

I'd collect the letter, read it and then decide what to do. If you feel it necessary, set a lawyers on TSCC for harassment. Because as you are not a member they really have no need to be contacting you at all.

"Gahh. Will this church never just get out of my life? I put down the baggage a long time ago but it just seems to magically clunk along behind me."

Then don't engage, don't grab the bag. Accept that you'll not know what the letter is about. Ignore the certified mail card. Burn it, shred it, flush it... just f*ck it and TSCC.

(BTW, I've read your blog before. It's great.)

What could the Mormon church possibly have that you could want? Refusing to sign for certified mail sends a pretty good message to them.

What an annoyance! I'm sorry you're having to deal with this sort of mischief.

I don't have any answers, but I want to add that they're stalking my husband and me too. Our families are nevermos who did not agree with us when we joined (we should have listened!!). No way would they give out any of our personal information and we have pretty common names and have moved a bunch of times over the years, but they STILL manage to track us down by phone whenever we move. Thanks to Caller ID, we don't answer or return calls, and we don't open our door to missionaries either. It seems like the missionaries knock an awful lot, but I don't know if they just come through the area often or are after us specifically. It's amazing how aggressive and desperate the church is to get members to come back, even those of us who were never particularly good Mormons to start with!

Yes, they stalk. Tell them they're stalkers and you're going to the police. You can file a report and send them a copy.

Sorry, I know the feeling. I'm going out in a few minutes and have to change or I'd write more.

Good luck.

Some individuals may be making contact by phone, email, or mail, or by dropping by from time to time usually because you are still a member. Resignation generally stops that contact.
That is legal, and is not stalking - not a legal definition.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2012 09:47PM by SusieQ#1.

No one is claiming any kind of official legal definition. Looking it up in any dictionary will show that this person is being followed and hounded against their will. That is what stalking is.

I am telling the truth. NO ONE who stalked me had ever met me. They did it because the ward leaders directed them to do it. The ward leaders also did not know me. They directed the stalking because the local policy is to continue to stalk anyone if their name has ever been associated with mormonism and to keep them on official lists. Of course these fools don't use the word stalking because they haven't looked it up and don't know or care about the meaning of it.

I decided it was in my best interest to read the letter. Here's what it said:

Bishop X
Ward X
Address, City, State

Dear Sister [My name here]

Brother [Ex Husband] is applying to the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints for a sealing clearance. As a former sealed spouse of Brother [Ex Husband], you are requested to provide a letter. This letter should include your feelings about this application and whether Brother [Ex Husband] is current in any financial obligations related to your divorce.

Please return your letter to the above address. Your consideration of this matter is greatly appreciated.

Bishop X


I believe this letter provides a pretty good example of the lack of respect for personal boundaries that LDS, inc. has for the individuals it interacts with. Let's think this through:

1. I'm not a member of this church any more. But they track me down and send me this letter.
2. They refer to me as "Sister" - an attempt to demonstrate authority over me and ignore the fact that I escaped from them.
3. The letter never expresses concern for my well-being, nor does it apologize for what must necessarily be an intrusion of my privacy and an unsettling request to rehash the past.
4. The letter instructs rather than asks me to provide them with a letter. The tone is authoritarian rather than inviting.
5. Was this letter written by a robot or what?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2012 05:11PM by mollymuses.

If she's around she might have time to share the letter she sent them.

In your place I think I'd ignore it though.

I think they sent you a form letter they use for this purpose.

I don't think they had a right to track you down and treat you as if they're your authority and you're still connected to them and to your ex. I guess that's how they see it but this is a good example of why many of us want no connection with the mormon church. It's presumptive and intrusive and can never let anyone live and let live. Although we'd like nothing more than to leave them alone, they're stalkers who refuse to leave us alone,

I hope this hasn't brought up negative feelings that will be difficult for you. Sending good thoughts and healing in case you need it and it helps.

...to have fun with the response.

"Dear Mr. [blank], If dear ex-husband is marrying a man, he has my wholehearted support and blessing. I am so glad for him that he has come to terms with his sexual orientation, because that is what broke up our marriage. Thank goodness that the LDS church is finally admitting reality and not putting any barriers in his way. I had no idea. The church must have learned something after all from all the negative publicity surrounding its support for Prop 8."

P.S. Oh, and I'm not your sister anymore.

Summer,

YOU ARE BRILLIANT.

Sadly, that's what I would have wanted for him. He was a great guy before repression and self-loathing distorted him into a sad shadow of a man. We probably would have remained dear friends had he been honest with himself instead of plunging into denial and accusation.

Its illegal to stalk.

Sheesh.

Timothy

SusieQ#1...

stalking

present participle of stalk (Verb)
Verb:
Pursue or approach stealthily: "a cat stalking a bird".

Harass or persecute (someone) with unwanted and obsessive attention: "the fan stalked the actor".

LEGAL definition of stalking - all of the above definition with the added element - intent to harm.

Just because most of the situations do not meet that INTENT TO HARM element, doesn't mean the activities are not stalking. THEY ARE STALKING. There is the definition for you. It just means that without the intent to harm, you probably won't have a case for legal action against the perpetrator BUT IT IS STILL IN FACT STALKING.


Get it?

goldenrule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SusieQ#1...
>
> I made myself clear, I thought. I will stick to the legal definition of stalking and will maintain that the LDS Church has NO POLICY to do anything illegal.
That's a fact in my view.

Its illegal yet remains firmly entrenched in cult doctrine (see D&C section 132).

Again, the cult isn't stalking anyone legally. That would be because stalking is illegal.

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2012 06:25PM by Timothy.

Maybe they want to X him, and want you to witness against him.

Guess what?

They refused to sign for the letters. (Until the police ordered them to pick them up and sign.)

The morg isn't going to convince the police to force you to accept unwanted cult material from an organization you once supported.

In your place I'd ignore this letter.

If it bothers you, I'd tell the police and/or a lawyer.

Respond to their inquiry or not. Either way he will get the sealing clearance because you are a woman and your opinion is of no consequence.

Burn it and forget it.

canceled already (as stated in a previous post)?

Something seems fishy.

I thought of saying, "Do you feel you should warn the other woman?"--but being that my "ex" is gay and I know other women in mormonism--even after him being "out" for 16 years, the women from our old singles ward still invite him to after church dinner. We are 54. They also say, "Why doesn't she (me) jsut let him go and get on with her life?" It just so happens I'm the one who has gotten on with my life.

Anyway, I wish you could warn the other woman, but I'd bet she won't listen.

...maybe it would be worthwhile responding only to tell them about his arrest for child porn. Is it possible the church would not be aware of it?

As I have stated before.

Don't be surprised when Mormons act like Mormons. Be surprised when they don't.

How to handle it? Lots of different ways are open to you. You need to consider which way is the best for your situation.

You have gotten a lot of good advice above...you need to decide if any of it works for you--or should you go another route?

Personally, in that situation I would want to wipe my @ss with it and mail it back, but what I want to do and should do are usually not the same thing. I am sure that there is some law against mailing human waste through the mail.

Question: Did it comes with a postage paid return envelope?


It might be satisfying to:

1.Tear it into little pieces and mail it back to them.
or
2.Write "worthless lying cult" in big red letters across it and then mailing it back to them.
or
3.Send them an itemized invoice for "handling charges" of their worthless letter to you. After all it took time, travel expenses ect to collect their letter and time to "handle" their request and return it to them.

All of the above suggestions are wise and hilarious. However, here's what I am going to send back:

Mr. [Redacted],

Receiving your letter was deeply distressing. I have not been a member of the LDS Church since November of 2010. In my notarized letter indicating the termination of my membership I requested no further contact. I am not inclined to share my personal feelings with strangers. It is troubling to me that you had my address. I have not provided the LDS Church with my home address since 2007. It's upsetting to learn that I was tracked down and that my information is still being kept and updated by the LDS Church although I am no longer a member and specifically withdrew my consent to be kept on your rolls or treated as a member. This behaviour does not demonstrate respect for personal privacy.

The cold tone of the letter is astonishing, considering the nature of the demand made, but it is further distressing that matters related to my former spouse were pushed on me with no warning or sensitivity. People can grow, change, and improve, but any progress Mr. Ex makes in resolving the issues that have troubled him so deeply must be done without me.

I recognize the possibility you are just following procedure and may not have been made aware of my resignation and request for no contact. I have included a copy here for your reference.

Despite all this, I will answer your questions. I am not doing this out of a desire to help or hinder Mr. Ex's petition. That is none of my affair. I am responding because this is an opportunity to sever the very last tie between myself and my former spouse.

To answer your specific question, there are no outstanding financial issues related to our divorce.

To answer your more general question, I will only note that Mr. Ex has not met the requirements of the repentance process with regard to offences he has caused to me. He continues to demonstrate a bitterness of spirit toward me that would make it difficult if not impossible to be ready to take another spouse. As part of the repentance process, recompense must be made to the person who was wronged. Mr. Ex has never acknowledged his role in the breakdown of our marriage, let alone demonstrated remorse. To the contrary; when I filed for divorce he put on a mask of piety to avoid engaging with his mistakes while simultaneously engaging in cruel and childish slander that persists to this day.

I chose to end the marriage when I learned that his homosexual tendencies had progressed beyond curiosity and pornography use to making arrangements to meet men for sex. Being caught in this behaviour caused him to react with hysteria. He brought his scriptures to my father's workplace to lecture him on the doctrines prohibiting divorce. He accused me of brainwashing him. He accused me of committing adultery with many people. He and his family called me childish names on public blogs and made claims that I was mentally ill. He wrote inaccurate and inappropriate messages on his mission's alumni website regarding our divorce.

Mr. Ex continued to hurt me even after I had left him, refusing to participate in what should have been a simple, inexpensive divorce. I further suffered from his poor choices when the police confiscated my laptop as part of their investigation into Mr. Ex as part of their investigation which led to a felony conviction and Mr. Ex's registration as a sex offender. The police found tens of thousands of illegal images on my computer depicting very small children being sexually abused. I was rightly not named as a suspect, but the process was frightening and sickening. I had to cope with the stress of the situation for some time. The incident made me fear for my freedom and reminded me that my former spouse did not ever have my best interests at heart. This second injury of betrayal greatly slowed my healing process during the divorce, which compounded the stress associated with the horrifying nature of the crime, the attendant press coverage, and the curiosity of my acquaintances.

For all these troubles, I do not believe that people should be frozen in time along with old mistakes. Any defect of personality can be overcome with good intentions and hard work. I have not spoken with Mr. Ex since the day I left the marriage, so I can not be considered a good judge of his present state of mind. We are no longer sealed, so this is not a situation involving polygamy where my feelings should be weighed. It is up to those with a more current understanding of him to determine if he has honestly engaged with his issues of homosexuality and paedophilia, and if his intended spouse is mature enough to understand what she is getting into.

The only observation I can make that is that Mr. Ex is unrepentant regarding the hurt done to me due to the continued presence of slanderous statements on websites owned by himself and members of his family. I am uncertain that someone with such bitterness toward a former spouse can be in an appropriate state to regain admission to the temple and to forge a healthy new relationship. The links below are just a small sample of many similar statements made online and verbally to my friends and family:

[link redacted]

[link redacted]

[link redacted]

The continued presence of these many postings forces me to remember painful incidents in the past when friends stumble across them, note the cruelty of this behaviour, and ask questions about our former relationship. While my acquaintances are well meaning and always show support against such bizarre obsession after so many years, these are not conversations worth having. I wished for all ties to be severed, but these digital attacks linger because material printed online cannot fade the way memories do.

There is nothing by way of an apology that will really mean much to me at this point. However, were Mr. Ex to remove the statements he and his family have posted on various Internet sites, it would cut the last tie between us and prevent the whole sad matter from popping up as often as it does. This is the only recompense I could ask for at this point. I have refrained from speaking about him in this manner, and a healthy, mature person wishing to make progress in life would be wise to do the same. Clinging to past hurt will only lead to misery and makes a poor foundation for a happy future.

This information should be a satisfactory answer to your request. In return I expect that no more efforts will be made by my former spouse or former religion to reopen a chapter of my life that is long over. I bear no bitterness or ill will toward either party, but I am bewildered at the continued attempts by both to intrude into my life. I do not wish to dwell on the parts of my past that have nothing to offer to my future.

In the strongest terms possible, I remind you that I am not a member of the LDS Church and therefore have a legal expectation to be left alone. Remove my name and address from all of your records. Do not continue to track where I live. Do not continue to keep record of me. Do not refer to me as "Sister" or contact me in any way. If I am contacted again by any official of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I will take whatever legal actions are necessary to ensure my privacy.

MOLLY

Great letter!

But if I was in your position I'd just send them, certified of course, a reply with the standard header, date and whatnot but inside of text in the body of the letter I'd put a photocopy/scan/image of my ass. With maybe 'kiss it' written somewhere. ;-)

They might read your letter but they will not 'get' it. They don't deserve to read your words, imo.

It totally rocks. I would suggest one small change:

In the ninth paragraph, from "if his intended spouse is mature enough to understand what she is getting into," to "if his intended spouse is mature enough and informed enough to understand what she is getting into."

The question is, does she know?

Molly says she resigned from the church in 2010. So why are they asking her about a cancellation of sealing so her ex can be sealed to someone else?

Doesn't a resignation void all LDS ordinances? Is a sealing still in effect even if a person officially resigns?

Very excellent letter.