Dear Brother,

You got caught cheating on your wife. You are a dumbass.

You are not a dumbass because you got caught.

You are a dumbass for failing to circumscribe your desires and failing to keep your passions within due bounds.

You have allowed your self-will to run riot.

Ziller loves you and your wife and your two beautiful baby girls and gives you the following advice:

1) Work things out and stay with your wife. You will be on double probation for a long time and it will be hell - but it is the hell you made so live in it.

Don’t think that there is something better out there because there isn’t. All women are difficult to live with and expensive to support – the better ones especially.

You took your time getting married. You had fun “playing the field” and truly waited for the right woman to come along before deciding to get married. When she did come along she was young, blonde, beautiful and intelligent and you knew she was the right one.

Get back to that thing that made you want to marry her in the first place. If she seems to have changed from that, if she seems angry or bitter, it is only because she has had to put up with living with your crazy self-indulgent ass.

2) Speaking of self-indulgence - Your indulgence in pornography and masturbation is a major factor in what caused your relationship with your wife to deteriorate. You then used your deteriorated relationship as an excuse to justify an affair. It is also what has so clouded your thinking that you were unable to anticipate the consequences of your actions.

Man up and quit playing with your wiener like some kind of pathetic poo-throwing primate. Don’t look at any pictures or videos that you would not want to see your daughters in. The only “porn” you will see or need from now on is your beautiful wife’s live naked willing body. You will only be allowed to masturbate under her personal supervision.

3) Do not use the counselors recommended by LDS Family Services. You and your wife need good professional help that is not screened through the filter of Mormon doctrine.

Also you and your wife should not talk to your Bishop about this. He is only an insurance salesman. He has no more skills at counseling couples or powers of discernment than the next insurance salesman. His wife will make sure that your entire ward knows about it too.

4) Speaking of Mormons - The Mormon Church is going to excommunicate you. Use this as an opportunity for you and your family to resign your membership. Ziller knows that you know that the Mormon Church is all bullsh*t. Your wife knows it too and your girls are too intelligent not to see it when they get older.

Your wife only converted because you made it a condition for getting married. Her solid Christian family was justifiably horrified at her conversion to Mormonism but has continued to support your marriage anyway.

Resigning your membership and attending a Christian church with your family will not only demonstrate your sincerity to change but will also increase the amount of time, money and energy you are able to spend on your family.

5) Speaking of time – your wife and daughters should be your top priority. Another contributing factor to the deterioration of your relationship with your wife is due to the inordinate amount of time you spend on your hobbies, interests, church callings, and job. Unless you are at work, from now on you will be wherever your wife and daughters are and doing whatever you can all do together.

6) Live honestly – take the passwords off your phone and computer, destroy your hidden porn files, close your secret bank account, lose those sluts’ phone numbers, don’t go anywhere or do anything that you will have to lie to your wife about.

7) Oh yeah - Shave that stupid goatee – why do you cultivate something on your face that grows wild on your ass? It looks like you have an untrimmed p*ssy growing on your face. Ziller doesn’t know if you grew it as an outward expression of your internal perversion or if the act of growing it caused you to become perverted – either way, you need to shave it off.

Peace and love,

Ziller

First I have to say that your letter was full of references and analogies that smacked of "mormon-think" and it made me feel like I was reading a letter from a morgbot.

Let me address a few of those comments.

Self indulgence is not a poo throwing primate thing, it is a natural thing that religion has turned into a dirty disgusting forbidden act.

All women are difficult to live with and expensive to support, especially the better ones? That is a chauvinistic statement if I ever read one. I simply disagree with this one completely all religion aside.

Shave that stupid goatee? I am sorry but you sound like a bishop on this one. I happen to think facial hair is not stupid nor unattractive and I know many people who share that sentiment. You are entitled to your opinion but I would suggest trying not to express it in such a derogatory way.

I used to have a goatee until I caught crabs in it.

things ever invented, they are attractive on nobody, and they look exactly as you describe. Spot on!

Totally disagree on the goatee. It completely depends on the face of the man wearing it, and how it's groomed.

My husband has a well-trimmed goatee & mustache, and I think it looks fantastic on him.

In fact, I far prefer it over a clean-shaven face on him.

few that actually can pull off a goatee. Hector Elizondo was one.
Mostly they look horrid, and I don't know why they just don't wear a real beard instead of shaping it around the mouth like that.

"...lose the sluts' phone numbers.."? Define "slut". I'm not sure I agree with that one.

What's with referring to yourself in the third person?

Lastly, don't you have the cojones to speak to him in person? If not, grow a pair.

Oh, and just to enlighten you, we don't call them goatees (in the locker room) anymore. They're "oral vaginal stimulation gaskets". (Sorry, ladies).

"All women are difficult to live with and expensive to support – the better ones especially"? Somebody needs their figs kicked up around their earlobes.

Dude! Of all the better methods to communicate this, couldn't you have found a better one?

You should kick your own ass.

Ron

I agree completely with Not-to-insult-but...I thought this letter was written by a Morgbot until it said not to use an LDS counselor.

I'm guessing this poster is a Christian because of the aversion to pornography and masturbation. The writer identifies porn and masturbation as major contributing factor in the troubles the marriage is experiencing.

This is rubbish. Porn and masturbation only become compulsive, ritualized, and secretive when they are stigmatized and "forbidden." Healthy adults without religion seldom, if ever, experience relationship problems as a result of porn and masturbation. Those things are complete, utter non-issues for people who don't think they're "dirty."

Calling on this guy to discontinue those practices only reinforces his shame, which will act to cause further compulsive, ritualistic and secretive behavior. The real cure here, as psychiatrists and psychologists discovered decades ago, is not to try to cure porn and masturbation addictions, but to rid the person of the shame and guilt surrounding their personal expressions of their own sexuality.

In other words, Brother of Ziller should realize there's nothing wrong with porn and masturbation, and should forget that as an issue altogether.

I do agree with Ziller, of course, that BoZ should be seeking competent, professional help. The real solution here lies, inter alia, in BoZ and his DW becoming more open and accepting of each other, experimenting sexually, and understanding of each other's sexual fantasies and desires. BoZ should certainly keep his sexual behavior within the marriage, but it's entirely self defeating to tell him to do this but also feel horrible about having sexual fantasies, about viewing porn, and about masturbating.

Telling someone else how to live their lives is futile and annoying.

Just MYOB When he wants advise he'll ask for it.

Until then refrain from "shoulding" all over yourself and others.

Don't talk to the Bishop because his wife will tell the ward.

Instead I will post all your business on a public Internet forum for the world to see.

Glad you ain't my brother.

P.s on a serious note, this isn't my brother is it? Call me!

Ziller’s head and heart were fixin’ to explode with all the thoughts and feelings about what to say to Brother – you know?

Thanks for being here RfM!

Ziller

"This is rubbish. Porn and masturbation only become compulsive, ritualized, and secretive when they are stigmatized and "forbidden." Healthy adults without religion seldom, if ever, experience relationship problems as a result of porn and masturbation. Those things are complete, utter non-issues for people who don't think they're "dirty."

I have to chime in here. If a single adult male wants to masturbate while watching porn, so be it. His choice, no big deal. However, as a woman who has been cheated on by an ex husband, I have to say this. When you are cheated on, the first thing you wonder is "what is wrong with me? Why am I not satisfying him?" When a man is trying to make ammends to a woman he has cheated on, continuing to watch porn and masturbate drives home the point to her that she is not fulfilling him and he has to turn to other methods for satisfaction. In this particular case, I think advising him against those actions was good advice.

I actually really like your advice and think that if your brother acts upon it his marriage will absolutely improve. When porn becomes a replacement for the real thing, there is definately a problem.

I still want a definition of "..sluts..". But that's just me.

I can't pretend to know how to define "slut",because I think it is subjective, but if a woman knows the man she is with is married, has children, and she is willing to sleep around with him anyway and not care, in my personal opinion, that is slutty!

Going to a concert is great, but sometimes you just want to listen to the album. Sometimes you want to listen to different albums. Sometimes you want to listen to it by yourself.

It sucks when your favorite concert of all time gets jealous of the different kinds of music you wish to listen to.