That makes absolutely no sense.

Do mormon missionaries teach minor children without getting parental permission? Yes, this does happen. They also sometimes baptize without prior parental consent. This is not the norm, but I know of a number of such cases related by exmos in person and others reported on RfM.

I once made this assertion and ex-missionaries went crazy denying that this could ever possibly happen. Then out of the blue, a half dozen lurkers and at least one former mishie poster came forward to tell their experiences. It all depends on who happens to be on RfM at any one time.

How often to missionaries hang around public school playgrounds and try to reel in kiddies? I don't know. However, once is one time too often.

What's probably worse is when missionaries knock on a door where parents are absent and make themselves at home without an adult permission. This is worse than rude. It puts kids in a vulnerable situation because they should be learning not to let any one in who is not a member of the family or designated by parents as an acceptable dropin. Unless the mishies are in this category, they need to excuse themselves and leave if children are alone.

I also know of many cases where missionaries have gone into backyards and spent time with kids without telling parents and have put them up to asking to spend more time together. This is inexcuseable if they are total strangers as kids need to learn not to talk to strangers who approach them.

There are also cases where they've done discussions at a neighbor's house to avoid detection and, like a molester, they tell the kids to keep the lessons secret.

Worst, is when they baptize whithout permission and I know of cases when this was done.

Are these common occurances? Not likely. Does that make them acceptable. No way!

Nobody is defending it. We just don't think it is as widespread as you do. It is wrong regardless, but in my experience it is much rarer than you seem to think it is.Please, stop putting words in peoples' mouths just because they don't accept everything you say.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody is defending it. We just don't think it is
> as widespread as you do. It is wrong regardless,
> but in my experience it is much rarer than you
> seem to think it is.Please, stop putting words in
> peoples' mouths just because they don't accept
> everything you say.

I just have to ask who is the "we" you speak of?

Perhaps your sentence would be better if you said:-

"I just don't think it is as widespread as you do."

"Please, stop putting words in my mouth just because I don't accept everything you say."

Just my MOO

Helen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bona dea Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nobody is defending it. We just don't think it
> is
> > as widespread as you do. It is wrong
> regardless,
> > but in my experience it is much rarer than you
> > seem to think it is.Please, stop putting words
> in
> > peoples' mouths just because they don't accept
> > everything you say.
>
> I just have to ask who is the "we" you speak of?
>
> Perhaps your sentence would be better if you
> said:-
>
> "I just don't think it is as widespread as you
> do."
>
> "Please, stop putting words in my mouth just
> because I don't accept everything you say."
>
> Just my MOO

That would be the other posters who disagreed with Cheryl in the other threads on the subject. If you want names, go back and read the threads. I don't remember but there were at least couple of them.One accused Cheryl of grossly exaggerating the number of religious and political handouts she was supposed to distribute to her kids when she was teaching.I happen to agree with them that I think she is exaggerating. At any rate, my objection to this latest thread is that she thinks we condone it. I do not and I don't think the others do

Nor did I indicate even an approximation.

If you disagree, you'll need to point out what you disagree with. I think you claimed that I didn't used to have to clear my mail cubby several times a day, but you're wrong about that. Besides, the materials I mentioned were almost all non-religious in nature.

I think your argument is contentious posturing, indicating that I stated an amount you disagree with. If so, what range of occurance did you read in to the post and to what extent to you contest it?

And how can you assume that **my** report of my experience is less valid than your non-knowledge of what I observed?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 09:59PM by Cheryl.

If you had read the post, you would see my objection was to you assuming that I and others are defending thes types of things. That is the point-not how widespread it is. I can only judge from my expereince and I have never seen a missionary approach a child or hang around a school. It probably does happen, posters here have talked of basevball baptisms, but I have never seen it and neither has anyone I know.I doubt either of us has any statistics on the subject, but again, THAT WAS NOT MY OBJECTION TO YOUR THREAD.

And assuming that I have said they are widespread.

No, my objection to mishie behavior is not based on how many do these things, only on the fact that I know that some of them have done these things and others continue to do them. It's wrong and inappropriate when it happens. Mishies need to be cautioned against it and parents need to be educated to protect their children in case it happens to them.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And assuming that I have said they are
> widespread.
>
> No, my objection to mishie behavior is not based
> on how many do these things, only on the fact that
> I know that some of them have done these things
> and others continue to do them. It's wrong and
> inappropriate when it happens. Mishies need to be
> cautioned against it and parents need to be
> educated to protect their children in case it
> happens to them.

And I am not arguing that it is wrong and should not be allowed. Is there some part of that you don't understand, because I have made it pretty clear? I have even gotten an email wondering why you didn't get the point.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2010 10:00PM by Cheryl.

I've never seen missionaries hang out around schools in the US that I can remember, but we were definitely told to do it when I was a missionary in Japan.

Towards the end of my mission, around the end of 2004, Elder Kikuchi (An egotistical psycho Japanese member of the 70 in Japan who regularly spoke to missionaries) told us that all individuals 15 years and older were to be spoken to about Mormonism. He said he was baptized when he was 13 and that missionaries need to find more "golden kids" like him to baptize.

I didn't follow it that much when he said it, spoke to couple kids that were interested who answered the door when I knocked. However, when I transferred to another area for the last transfer period of my mission the missionaries there stopped high school kids in their high school uniforms on the streets to talk to them all the time.

Some of these kids were really young, and I didn't think it was right even as an uber-TBM missionary. I didn't stop any high school kids after the first day or two after getting there, by my companion continued to. After a while, though, word must have went around because all the high school kids started ignoring us. Good for them.

I don't know how many missions practice this, but they sure do in Japan or at least they did 6 years ago when I left.

scuba Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never seen missionaries hang out around
> schools in the US that I can remember, but we were
> definitely told to do it when I was a missionary
> in Japan.
>
> Towards the end of my mission, around the end of
> 2004, Elder Kikuchi (An egotistical psycho
> Japanese member of the 70 in Japan who regularly
> spoke to missionaries) told us that all
> individuals 15 years and older were to be spoken
> to about Mormonism. He said he was baptized when
> he was 13 and that missionaries need to find more
> "golden kids" like him to baptize.
>
> I didn't follow it that much when he said it,
> spoke to couple kids that were interested who
> answered the door when I knocked. However, when I
> transferred to another area for the last transfer
> period of my mission the missionaries there
> stopped high school kids in their high school
> uniforms on the streets to talk to them all the
> time.
>
> Some of these kids were really young, and I didn't
> think it was right even as an uber-TBM missionary.
> I didn't stop any high school kids after the first
> day or two after getting there, by my companion
> continued to. After a while, though, word must
> have went around because all the high school kids
> started ignoring us. Good for them.
>
> I don't know how many missions practice this, but
> they sure do in Japan or at least they did 6 years
> ago when I left.

I have heard enough of these stories that I believe it does happen in some foreign missions. Maybe it happens in the US too although I have never seen it.

I was doing my affiliation [I was 19] at one of the local hospitals and we were bused from one city to the other. The missionaries would be waiting outside the bus wanting me to ride with them instead of taking the bus so they could take me to a member's home for a discussion. I like an idiot went that time so then they started showing up regularly at the hispital where I was affiliating. I purposely wouldn't come out to the bus if I saw them. Of course that made the bus driver mad because I was late. Of course I lied to the bus driver. I didn't want the rest of the students to know the missionaries were there for me. And they constantly called the dorm for me.

Widespread or not. Who the hell cares eh?

ONCE by two missionaries is ENOUGH!

I know, I know....it must have worked, I finally joined their church but that's another story.

Widespread isn't or ought not to be the issue. The issue is they have no business being that intrusive and even worse when it is minors.

Helen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was doing my affiliation at one of the local
> hospitals and we were bused from one city to the
> other. The missionaries would be waiting outside
> the bus wanting me to ride with them instead of
> taking the bus so they could take me to a member's
> home for a discussion. I like an idiot went that
> time so then they started showing up regularly at
> the hispital where I was affiliating. I purposely
> wouldn't come out to the bus if I saw them. Of
> course that made the bus driver mad because I was
> late. Of course I lied to the bus driver. I didn't
> want the rest of the students to know the
> missionaries were there for me. And they
> constantly called the dorm for me.
>
> Widespread or not. Who the hell cares eh?
>
> ONCE by two missionaries is ENOUGH!
>
> I know, I know....it must have worked, I finally
> joined their church but that's another story.
>
> Widespread isn't or ought not to be the issue. The
> issue is they have no business being that
> intrusive and even worse when it is minors.

I agree and my objection, for the umteenth time is cheryl seems to think I am condoning it.

By taking issue with non-existent numbers.

The only rationale for minimizing "how few mormons do this" is to trivialize it, thus the conclusion that this contentious posturing is morgbot-type apologetics.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By taking issue with non-existent numbers.
>
> The only rationale for minimizing "how few mormons
> do this" is to trivialize it, thus the conclusion
> that this contentious posturing is morgbot-type
> apologetics.
Oh, please, Cheryl, learn how to read. This is getting ridiculous. Good bye.

So ***you*** misread the OP or you lied.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So ***you*** misread the OP or you lied.

Not surprising that you would see it that way since you have deliberately misrepresented everything I said. I'm done. I don't have time for this crap.Believe what you like.