No joke, this is what my SO's born-again branhamite father tried to tell me the other night.

He said there is only one sin and that's unbelief. Nothing you "do" is a sin. Murder, rape, theft, slavery, these are all just things one does. They are not sins. If you don't believe in Jay-Zeus you are a sinner no matter how good you are.

If you do believe in Jay-Zeus then you're not a sinner no matter how badly you behave.

Is this really what flies for theology in the born-again churches these days?

Sounds more like the theology of Islam.

Looks like yet more religious elitism.

Oh yes, because according to dude's theology, EVERYONE either believes in Jesus or the Devil. I tried to explain to him what a false dichotomy is but his eyes glazed over...

(sigh)

This is rampant in even mainstream denominations of Christianity. Being "saved" is a one-time event -- a declaration of belief -- after which you are free to act as you please... as long at the end of the day, you acknowledge Jesus as Lord. They are not all equally liberal about it, but the one-time "saved" thing undoubtedly draws the masses to organized religion. It might barely meet the qualifications for religion, but organized it is not.

That's certainly not Christian theology.

Christians, even the most Fundy, do believe that when you accept Jesus and receive his grace you will do right as a result. if you don't, then you didn't really accept Jesus or receive grace.We need to be fair. They don't believe you can do whatever you want and it doesn't matter because your salvation is insured.There are also many Christians who don't believe that all non Christians will go to hell.

kentish, I'm not saying ALL Christians believe that way. I just posited it as a parallel to the original post and how an awful lot of "casual Christians" (which make up much of the American demographic), when questioned, claim they're "saved" but retain little accountability for their own behavior -- proper Christian theology or not.

Yeah, I think a lot of fundies have deluded themselves i nto thinking they are saved and righteous regardless of their behavior.If there is a traditional heaven, I think a lot of people are going to be surprised about who did and didn't make it.

Thanks for the clarification.

this is true:
Being "saved" is a one-time event

this i aint so sure about:
after which you are free to act as you please.

i have not exposed to that way of thinking and i dont think that would be a "mainstream" religion...at least in my view.

bignevermo, I never stated that that line of thinking defined any particular denomination(s) of Christianity. I merely stated that it was often present in them.

I really don't see how someone could read the four gospels in the NT and come away believing that Jesus taught that what you do doesn't matter. Not everyone who says Lord, Lord ...

Yeah, apparently Paul trumps Jesus. But as Paul himself said, "was Paul crucified for you or were you baptized in the name of Paul?"

If I were a christian I would definitely pay more attention to Paul than Jesus.

Paul - Men should control women. Women should stay quiet in church. Just confess jesus and it will all be ok. We all fall short. Don't sweat it.

Jesus - Sell everything you own and give it to the poor. Don't worry about what you'll eat or what you'll wear. God will provide. Be perfect, just like god.


It's a no-brainer.

so you can beg in the streets? you dont want to trade places?

but dont you know that god will provide...cause the believers pay god to!

I got in a n argument with the daughter of a born again niece on FB. A bunch of her BAC friends joined in to save me. One of them who is a pastor said that the only thing Jesus cares about is what you think of him. You go to hell, regardles of how good you are if you don't believe.I told them that I can't accept a God like that so I guess they think I am going to hell.Many more liberal Christians have a believe that good people will make it and some see hell as only separation from God and only for the worst.

This is the flip side of Mormonism and makes me just as mad.

On the one hand: I believe, therefore I can do anything I want and still be saved.

On the other: You must be perfect and do all this stupid stuff all of the time or you will not be saved.

Where's following the only two commandments that were actually taught?

Hitchens was right "religion poisons everything" and it starts in the brain. This father is proof positive. I wonder how those morals are good for society if they're not sins?

I know a lot of the New Age people. It seems that a lot of them believe that they are God in part because they came out of him and when this life is over they will go back into him. I think one of the eastern religions teach something like that. Any way a lot of these people do not think they are sinners and never commit a sin. They are part of God that has taken on this life to learn what it is to be human. No matter what they do it is just a choice of several choices. I asked several about murder, rape, incest and other moral choices. I was told that it was just God learning about human nature, there is no sin. To me, some of this thinking is more sick than Mormonism.

Totally. The mormons blame the victim. The new agers tell the victim they aren't really the victim at all.

THOUGHTCRIME!

WAR IS PEACE!

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY!

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH!

We have ALWAYS been at war with Eastasia!

Big Brethren are watching you!

If so, I'd say it's a pretty meaningless gesture. If not, how can it be any more a sin than skin color?

Yeah, that's what the friend who dumped me has said in the past. She, who cheated on her husband more than once, is often dishonest in her dealings with her fellow man. Yet I find the Gospel "inconvenient" because I want to do other things.

"I", who is a frickin' goody-two-shoes. But she's a Mormon, so she gets a pass. Uh, huh. If you say so. *eye roll*