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Posted by: nomoworms ( )
Date: January 11, 2012 05:51PM

I found this link in my Formon bookmarks. Not sure where I picked it up but the explanation of the Hoax says "Unfortunately, after Smith finished his translation, he had to return the tablets to the Angel, so there is no physical evidence that they ever existed."

This brings to mind "The Dog ate my homework" excuse for no proof that there were ever any golden plates. Does anyone have experience with this LISTVERSE website?

Here's the link - http://listverse.com/2007/08/30/top-10-famous-hoaxes/

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Posted by: RPackham ( )
Date: January 11, 2012 07:00PM

I'm glad to see the Book of Mormon at the top of the list!

I would think that the "Poems of Ossian" would rate a ranking up toward the top.

Orson Scott Card tries to use that hoax (a genuine hoax) to distinguish something NOT a hoax (the Book of Mormon) in his article at http://www.nauvoo.com/library/card-bookofmormon.html

In the 18th century, James McPherson produced what he claimed was the poetry of an ancient Celtic poet, Ossian. Much of literary Europe was fascinated and impressed with the discovery and translation. McPherson became famous, as did Ossian's poems, and the poems had some influence on other poets of the day.

Card is trying to show how McPherson's hoax is different from the Book of Mormon. He gives as differences:

- the poems were what McPherson's contemporaries assumed ancient poetry would be, not what ancient poetry was really like;
- it was an age in which people were excited about finding ancient manuscripts, especially having to do with the British Isles;
- the hoax was soon discovered because it was "deeply wrong" [inaccurate];
- McPherson never provided the originals of the poems;
- even after the discovery of the hoax, McPherson was respected, not hounded to death;
- only those in a very ignorant time (unlike our intelligent society today) were deceived by it.

I see those same items as ways in which the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith are actually very similar to Ossian and McPherson:

- the Book of Mormon portrays what Americans of the 1820s thought about the origins of the Indians (as Israelites), and what Ancient America was like (see Ethan Smith's 1820s book View of the Hebrews and its sources as typical of American thinking of the time). The actual study of ancient American civilizations was in its infancy, and most Americans simply assumed that ancient America also had cattle, horses, wheat, metal swords, coins, chariots, etc.
- the 1820s in America also was a time of intense interest in finding evidence of earlier Americans;
- the hoax was soon discovered: Howe's Mormonism Unvailed appeared four years after the Book of Mormon; Alexander Campbell pointed out in 1831 how amazing it was that the Book of Mormon dealt with precisely those religious problems which had been so much discussed in the 1820s; within eight years many early converts came to realize that Smith and his book were a hoax, and apostatized (the mass apostasies of 1837-38 in Kirtland were based in part on Martin Harris' admissions about his "testimony" of the Book of Mormon); the flood of written material exposing the Book of Mormon has hardly slowed in 170 years, and still continues, based partly on the inescapable evidence that the Book of Mormon is "deeply wrong" about the history of ancient America and the origin of the American Indians;
- Smith never provided the "originals" (the plates) for examination by experts, or even anyone besides his intimate friends and family;
- even after being exposed, Smith continued to be prominent and respected by many;
- only those who are ignorant of the facts are still deceived by the Book of Mormon. It is quite obvious that the overwhelming majority of people who have examined the Book of Mormon have recognized it as false. Only a very small number of those to whom the missionaries present its story end up as members of the Mormon church.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: January 12, 2012 06:57AM

I agree entirely, Mr. Packham.

As I was reading OSC's "differences" between Ossian and the BOM, it seemed uncanny how each difference actually applies fully to the Book of Mormon.

Orson Scott Card is not stupid and has even written at least one decent book. Ender's Game is quite good (that's British praise for you!), although it left me feeling that he had created a rather 'sick' and feverish universe when I finished, discouraging me from reading any others.

He may be mentally ill, however. Such cognitive dissonance and self-blindness broadcast to the world in this way are not signs of a healthy mind.

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Posted by: matt ( )
Date: January 12, 2012 04:34PM

I THINK that might have something to do with the different ways that Smith and McPherson were treated.

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Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: January 11, 2012 07:33PM

The Book of Mormon is truly a giant among hoaxes. Imagine how many families have been torn apart because of belief in the fiction. Millions have fallen under its spell. Of course the Bible and the Koran are even bigger hoaxes, though they have a small amount of history and geography woven into them. The BoM has zero connection to real places or events.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: January 11, 2012 07:48PM

I don't know, my family is pretty strongly divided over the whole Twilight saga. Some are Team Edward, some are Team Jacob, and some have a Y chromosome and would rather take a beating then hear any more about it.

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Posted by: Don Bagley ( )
Date: January 11, 2012 08:38PM

Ha, ha ha. That's good, forbidden. I think a waterboarding would beat a Twilight viewing for entertainment value. But that's just me. I like horror better than hormones.

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Posted by: Rebeckah ( )
Date: January 12, 2012 02:14AM

I read the first three books JUST because I really wanted Bella to just fucking DIE already. I finally gave up in disgust after the third book though.

I'm with Don -- waterboarding WOULD be more entertaining.

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Posted by: Chicken'N'Backpacks ( )
Date: January 11, 2012 08:58PM

In addition to your first point, the BoM sounds like what people assumed a "bible-ish" book should sound like, not what an actual elizabethan would write (except for the parts copied from the KJB along with mistakes from it).

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Posted by: larry john ( )
Date: January 11, 2012 11:54PM

come come now my sickly saints, the parallel world/earth sucked up the bones of those mormon battles and armour so no evidence. Of course the bible battles left some history because that mob wasnt so special as Moroni and his army,

good on ya captain Moroni what a hero?

Keep blowing that trumpet out of your ass....

The everlasting angel preaching the true sabbath messege not a pagen sunday one is closer to the true angel of god.

sorry moroni, you are always my favourite fiction charactor..
But Moses gets the prize this time, he stuttered and admitted his faults and didnt blow his trumpet and was more down to earth and common like the rest of us...

Larry..

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: January 12, 2012 02:02AM

You are making up B.S. once again.

How about some evidence.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: January 12, 2012 04:59AM

Well, they did kill off all the Greek (Philistine) people who used to be the majority race in that area. Other then the genocide, you are right, the only evidence of any biblical battle I have ever heard of was Jericho, and that one did not seem to go down the way the story in the Bible was told.

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Posted by: jaredsotherbrother ( )
Date: January 12, 2012 04:17PM

After buying and devouring OSC's "Saintspeak", I had such high hopes for his apostacy. Too bad his years of apologetics have twisted that big brain.

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