OK, so this will be kind of a long story.

I got baptized four years ago, after only three weeks of being taught by the missionaries. I was eighteen, and it was an extremely hard time in my life, so I felt that joining the LDS Church would be a great blessing in my life. I always had doubts about the church, and it was almost impossible for me to believe in many of Joseph Smith's "prophecies", but I really liked the Church and the changes it brought to my life. I stayed strong for a whole year and a half thinking that I would receive a testimony in the mission field.

So I went on my mission. Against my parents's will, but I did. I thought those would be the best two years of my life. But they were, by far, the worst. I had to serve in an extremely poor area of Brazil, having to walk under the hell of 120 degrees every day. If I would stop for ten minutes to take a brake, I would feel guilty, and I would have to report this to my mission president. I thought I would change people's lives, but I soon realized that I was only manipulating them, and that all it mattered in my mission were numbers. "To zero" was even a verb in my mission's vocabulary, meaning that you didn't baptize anyone in a certain weekend. I saw missionaries, those who I thought were "saints", sell their souls to the devil only so their names would appear in a weekly newsletter distributed by my mission president which contained the names of all the "baptizing missionaries". The first thing I did when I got in the mission field was to cry. When I called my family for Christmas - watching the clock, because I couldn't talk to them for more than 40 minutes -, I was crying like a baby.

After one year in the mission field, my intellectual abilities lead me to be called as the assistant for my mission president. He was simply adored in the mission, and would spend some time telling us about all the conversations he had with the apostles, the prophet etc. By working in the mission officce, I could see how the church controls missions, and how everything is analyzed in terms of numbers. My mission president was clearly trying to impress the General Authorities so he would be called as a General Authority himself, so our numbers always needed to be higher and higher, especially higher than other missions.

Anyways, after my mission, which ended in August 2009, I came to BYU. By the way, I am from Brazil, so coming to BYU was probably the best thing that ever happened in my life. BYU is, indeed, a great educational institution, and I will make so much money in Brazil for having a BYU degree.

Well, when I came to Utah, my testimony only decreased. I had this wonderful vision that Utah families were the represetation of heaven on earth. Wrong, again. I realized that these "perfect mormon families" have as much troubles as any other family. Also, I realized that there is no real friendship in mormonism. The missionary that baptized me: he lives three blocs from where I live, and I saw him once in one year. My "mission friends", even knowing that I was contemplating suicide, never had time to come to my apartament to give me a handshake. I saw how wards, especially student wards, are miserable places where everything is fake. And so on.

So, I am seriously thinking about leaving the church. The problem is that: (1) I cannot leave BYU; (2) I have no friends other than LDS; (3) I have no idea where to go for help. If any of you live in the Provo area, I beg you to contact me. I really need your help.

Your conclusions about Mormons are correct. You are learning to follow your heart, rather than blindly believe what other people tell you to believe. This can be painful, but once you get through it, you will be much happier--we ex-Mormons can promise you that!

This is off-topic, but let me compliment you on your English! You do seem very intelligent, and you are wise to value your college education.

I went to BYU, too, and there are many nice students there who are not blind followers. You can find them. Some are on RFM, and will contact you, I'm sure. They meet at a Starbuck's in Provo, I think. When I was at BYU, I had less-Mormon friends in the dorm. They couldn't be non-Mormon, because of the BYU tuition rules, but they were students who didn't believe, but were staying in the church while their parents were putting them through BYU.

I survived by concentrating on my studies, and would recommend that you do the same. Take Honors classes, if you can. There are some good teachers at BYU.

To meet the dreaded religion class requirements, I took as many Bible/Christianity classes as were allowed, but they had a rule that Book Of Mormon was MANDATORY, and that most classes had to be about Mormonism. I really hated the religion classes, especially Pearl of Great Price, which studied the Book of Abraham. What a hoax that is! It made me angry that I had to study and memorize a bunch of lies, and I got my worst grades in religion. In most other universities, religion classes aren't accepted as transfer credits (except Bible can be literature credit) and most graduate schools don't even look at religion grades.

Try to transfer to another university if you can! Are you planning on going to graduate school? You can look forward to that at another university, too. Try to get a scholarship of some kind. Get a counselor to help you with this.

Please, don't get married until you resolve your feelings about Mormonism. A temple marriage might trap you and your children in the cult for life.

You are lucky to find out about Joseph Smith's lies early in life.

You are lucky that your family isn't Mormon.

Many of us have been shunned by our own families, some have had their spouse leave them, and most of us would like to have our money and time back--just as you would like to have your two years back!

Don't despair! The worst is over! The worst was your mission, and finding out you belong to a hoax cult. Now, you can move ahead, and learn all of the truth, and map out your life according to what your heart tells you what to do.

Help is on the way!

I hope some people here are from your area, so you can hook up and hang out with them. You'll be much happier, and only they will understand what you are going through.

If BYU was the only chance you had at college, especially in the USA, then you may have to stick it out there.. But see if a transfer is possible. If not, I would say just focus on the "education" part, and sort of treat it like any other college. Ignore the religious side of it, a smuch as you can. If you really need the degree, and there is nowhere else to go, then get the degree. But stay in this forum at the very least-- because you WILL need an outlet when you're feel frustrated at the Moemon mentality.

Also, again, its good to find local ex mormons to hang with in person, but your friends don't all have to be local. You can have plenty of online friends too, chatting, etc. We all understand each other pretty well here. Some of us have cut all the ties, some of us are still pretending to be TBM's and haven't told the family yet, some are married to a TBM. People from all walks of life here.

I don't know if its allowed here, but you might even get a quicker response if you start a specific thread with just a one-line question- "Any Ex-mo's here in the Provo area, who wanna hang out?" Maybe wait a day or so to do that. Make that the subject line of the thread, in fact, so it can be seen from the lobby.

Some of us have facebook and all that. Get to know us all here, and you might even eventually feel comfortable buddying up with a few of us there too.

I will also agree- DO NOT get married to anyone who is active in the church, or devoted to it. Keep comming here for strength. Whenever someone tries to feed you a convincing LDS line that you're not sure how to get around, talk to us here and someone here can certainly counter it.

Hugs, and stick around with us!

Melissa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 06:43AM by melissa3839.

If you can't leave BYU then you'll have to tough it out.

There are good, thoughtful people at BYU but it is a job to find them.

I agree on the suggestion for Honors Program classes and activities. I would have gone insane at BYU without the Honors Program and I was very TBM at the time.

Other specific activities and clubs that do not focus on the church could be good for you.

Do focus on your studies and succeed. The LDS Church can really screw people up by diverting their focus from studies to church.

FWIW, there are a lot of lonely people at BYU that would welcome YOUR friendship. You are not alone in your loneliness!

Best of luck.

First of all, congratulations on all that you've achieved. How far along are you at BYU? If you have less than 2 years, then stick it out.

I completely agree with your assessment of the mission. I expected to help people and instead I was turned into a door-to-door salesman for a religiously themed corporation. I hated most of it and especially hated the numbers.

Can you transfer to Utah or some other school? Lots of US schools take international students. What about in Canada? I went to McGill and it's 25% foreign students. If you can survive Utah winters, you can survive Montreal winters.

If you have to tough it out, try to find like-minded people at BYU. There are lots of people who are active Mormons but don't take it too seriously. Just keep your nose clean and don't get kicked out. Join social or professional groups of your interests. Don't limit your social life to church activities. Take the bus to SLC and enjoy some more cultural activities there. Get a job on campus teaching Portuguese if you can.

College goes by fast and you can head back to Brazil with your degree in no time. If you have lots of time, then see what you can do about transferring next fall. This semester is nearly over and you can tough out one more no problem. It's still a lot better than the mission.

I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult experience. It's not much fun, and it isn't easy. But you aren't alone, as we have all been through similar experiences.

I have two degrees from BYU, served a mission, BIC, and all that. I never thought I'd be out of the church, but that's where I find myself.

I can't tell you what to do, but if you need someone to talk to, send me an email, and we can talk.

John

runnertx@hotmail.com

I was in the same spot once. At age 18 I was going through some rough times and the missionaries offered me "friendship" and I was hooked.

You are right. After they have you in they no longer have any use for you. As I have said before, friendships in Mormonism are a mile wide and an inch deep.

With so many exmormons in the Provo/Salt Lake area I'm sure you will find support.

Don't ever log into this website using a BYU computer or even their wireless or wired connections. Only log in at home and when there are no other students/roommates around. Don't log in on a common computer, either.

You'll have to lay low. And you'll have to complete your degree and have it in hand before quitting church. Don't forget that one. Sometime somewhere you signed something that says you won't get your degree if you quit the church, and some people say (and I don't know if it's true) that BYU will not transfer your credits if you leave the church while you're a student. You have a lot of pretending ahead of you.

So you bought the lie of Mormonism and now are suffering. I do feel for you. I hope you can tough it out and get your degree and then take action to reclaim your life. My daughter converted too and it is such a painful thing for us, her family. I hope one day she will see the light as you have. If you can talk to your family and at least give them hints you are having doubts it will ease their anxiety a lot. I am sure some people on this site will meet up with you and you can feel "normal" for part of each week anyhow. Good luck and I am glad you discovered the lie. The LDS church wants numbers- that is all.

You have less than 24 months, stick it out and get your degree!
Concentrate on your studies and date only non-Mormon girls, the time will go by fast.

After that, you can leave the morg and live a normal life again.

Everybody has ups and downs in life, be grateful yu found out about the Mormon fraud so quickly. Chalk up your bad experiences as part of your education and move on.

I never attended BYU, but I've heard horror stories. A questioning girl I was once in contact with at BYU Idaho was discovered by her roommate and was kicked out of BYU and her transcripts withheld. Yes, if you leave or question the church while at BYU, they WILL punish you. I fully agree with what everyone else has said... lay low, hang in there, and get your degree. I know it will suck, but it's only temporary. Just fake it 'till you make it! If you'd like to exchange emails, you can write to mormon411@yahoo.com.

I bailed on the Mormon church when I attended BYU in the late '90's. I never fit in with the Molly Mormon types. It sometimes sucked, because I felt scrutinized for every little thing I did that was "odd" or "not keeping within the spirit." I finally stopped hanging around the BYU approved housing I lived in unless I needed to sleep or shower.
I have a lot of ex-mo and never-mo friends in that area- I suggest checking out some of the coffee/tea houses and musical venues around Utah Valley. There are plenty of nice, kind, and understanding people around the town; you just have to look for them in the counter-culture places.
Good luck to you...It will get better!

I was a convert at 15 and served a mission in Bolivia. Same deal as your mission - it is all about numbers and any type of manipulation is considered acceptable if it gets numbers in. I was horribly depressed after my mission, and BYU only made it worse.

My best advice to you is this: Stick out your time at BYU until you have your degree. As you said, this will be a huge benefit to your life and there is no sense in losing that opportunity now. Once your degree is in hand, then you can leave and get on with your life on your own terms. I know it will not be pleasant, but it will be over soon enough.

Hello,

Your post was so eerie to me because I could have written practically the same thing myself five years ago. I converted to the church at 17, went on a mission at 19, went to BYU when I came back, and then began to doubt the church while I was there.

(Actually, I doubted the church several times before going to BYU. But for some reason, being at BYU brought all of my doubts to the forefront of my mind).

I had spent a lot of time and money getting into BYU and finding housing there, so I knew I couldn't just drop out and go to a different school. So my solution was simple. I just played the game while I was there, went to church once a month or so, then returned to my hometown after graduating and haven't been to church since.

I think that we as converts have an easier time with getting our ecclesiastical endorsement. Like I said, I was going to church once a month if that, and my bishop always signed my endorsement when I needed it. Also, converts are sometimes looked up to by average members of the Church. I heard many comments like, "If I wouldn't have been born into the church, I don't know if I would have had the courage to join like you did." So we get a pass on a lot of things at BYU, like if we hold more liberal views or if we have opinions that go in contrast with commonly held opinions by church members (at least that was my experience).

So just play the game while you can and get out when it's over. I found that the professors in my area of study were very good, and I suspected that many of them were closet non-believers like I was. I got a great education at BYU and I have no regrets going there.

If you need to talk, feel free to e-mail me at rkodavey@yahoo.com.

Hey guys -

Thanks a lot for your help. Yes, I am focusing on my studies since I got here, and I have been able to get a 4.0 GPA so far (I am a freshman in my second semester). I am studying political science, taking all senior-level classes, working as a research assistant and a teaching assistant. I am being pretty successfull, and I was actually thinking about the Honors Program to keep me even busier. Thanks for the suggestion; I will follow it. I can't transfer to any other school because of all the bureaucracy for international students. And, as everyone knows, BYU really offers an Ivy League education for the price of community college. Even a non-mormon (the guy seriously didn't know the first thing about mormonism) visiting professor at BYU said my plans of transferring from BYU to Harvard were just stupid, because both offer the same quality of undergraduate education.

Yes, I feel pretty blessed now for not having my family in the church. If I call them telling that I left the church, they will probably throw a party or something. haha. I just worry about a couple of people that will be "soooooooooooooo disappointed" with my decision. But luckly enough, I know how to manage this kind of stuff. About my "LDS" status to keep tuition low, I am not officially doing anything about it until I graduate, and maybe even after. It is a hard decision, you know that.

About marriage, don't worry about it! I have tried to make out with some chicks here, but they are all too worried about our "cultural differences". I am all against this liberal bla bla bla, but mormon chicks really discriminate against foreign people. Even if I am white and have blue eyes, being from Brazil is too much for their plans. Also, I think that the marriage thing here is faker than Obama's Christianity. Guys just want to have sex, and girls just want nice facebook pictures and the whole wedding experience. Once it is over, these people are more unhappy and worried about how to make money than all my non-mormon friends in Brazil. Also, as a sidenote, their sex life sucks so bad. My friends who got married tell me horror stories about how, after only a few months or marriage, they don't want to have sex because it is so boring: their wifes are so repressed that everything is the same. No wonder why so many married guys get hooked up with pornography. Again, blessed be my non-mormon teenagerhood - and the girlfriends I had!

Again, thank you.

You've received great advice and also it sounds like you are doing very well at university. Your plan going forward seems like it will work very well.

I just wanted to say I agree with the comment to be careful about not visiting this site from BYU - computer usage there is monitored. I'd also be careful who I talked to as students are known to tattle on each other there, believing it's their duty to out the non-believers, or something like that.

As for email, be very cautious who you contact and confide in. Just because someone posts on RfM does not mean you can automatically trust them. It is a good idea to have a secondary email address that you use only for RfM that doesn't give away your real name and email address.

Another alternative to safeguard you in that way is to go through Sus I/S, who is the main RfM Admin you see on this board. She can help you to sort out genuine offers for help from all those who may email you or offer to do so.

I would say the same goes for offers to meet up with you. How will you know it's not someone from BYU hoping to catch you doing something wrong or expressing your doubts or disbelief? I know that may sound paranoid but we've heard stories about how this happens and about how you can be denied your transcripts and graduation from BYU. A poster here recently wrote about how he did his entire four yrs at BYU and ended up not getting a transcript or his degree for engaging in an activity not approved of (producing calendars BYU didn't like).

This is not to say that offers on this thread are suspect; in fact, some are wonderful and I hope you talk to and even meet some of the fine exmos who participate on this board.

Good luck as you proceed. I'm smiling about your family having a party when you tell them you're not in the Mormon Church any more! Enjoy your time as much as you can and I hope you visit us here sometimes and let us know how it's going.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 05:10PM by Nightingale.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 05:40PM by Rebecca.

Right. Can you go to the public library?

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/page+3

lmayk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey guys -
>
> ...Even a non-mormon (the guy seriously
> didn't know the first thing about mormonism)
> visiting professor at BYU said my plans of
> transferring from BYU to Harvard were just stupid,
> because both offer the same quality of
> undergraduate education.
>
>

I don't mean to be a jerk, but that's just not accurate; BYU barely makes it into the top 100.

Well, I used to agree with you. But the guy graduated from Harvard as an undergraduate and graduate student, and he thaught there for some time. And he said that both have the same undergraduate quality. I guess his opinion is worth more for me than a poorly methodologically developed and biased list. But thanks for the comment, anyways.

Havard is a highly selective place, BYU isn't.

When you go to a highly selective university, more is expected of you, they work you harder and they grade you harder.

When you apply for grad school, do you honestly believe they're going to look at your CV and say, "OH BOY, BYU!!! That's just like Harvard". Or is that just because every admissions office in the world in the world has poor methodology and inappropriate bias?

Good God, man! You have 3 years left of college. Don't waste your time at BYU. You clearly are not fitting in if you are having regrets with 3 years to go.

1) It's not that hard to transfer. Okay, it's not easy, but it's a lot easier than white-knuckling the next 3 years. If you can't get in another US school, try Canada. I loved McGill and there are a dozen other good schools there. They are also a lot cheaper than US schools.

2) I am a BYU alum. I got a good education, but don't kid yourself. BYU is not an Ivy League school. Utah is a better school. BYU is a decent university, but it's not even close to the top US schools. You are not getting a Harvard education for community college prices. Shop around and you'll get a better deal.

3) College is a great time and it's such a shame to waste your time at such a terrible school. You'll leave with a decent degree, but you will have wasted all your social life. BYU is fine academically, but socially it's a disaster.

Do yourself a favor and get out. You can find just as good an education at just as good a deal with a much better social and dating life. Please don't waste your college years at BYU, since you've already wasted 2 years on your mission. You are only young once, so don't regret it.

Thanks for your help!

Seriously, there is no way that I can get out of BYU. This McHill University, tuition costs 30.000 dollars a year. I am having a hard time paying 5 thousand, imagine 6 times that!

It is also too late to apply to Harvard. Due to my academic performance, I could even be accepted there, and they have a great financial aid policy for international students. But it is too late, deadlines are a month away.

Also, even to transfer to a community college, I would need to have at least 30 thousand dollars in a bank account in order to fulfill immigration requirements. No way.

So I have to stay. I hate social life here, and that is why I need friends - to make my own social life.

Thanks guys.

lmayk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am all against this liberal bla bla bla, but
> mormon chicks really discriminate against foreign
> people. Even if I am white and have blue eyes,
> being from Brazil is too much for their plans.
>

I have great sympathy for you being stuck in a bad situation. Having said that, the above quote just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm the product of a mixed marriage- religious, ethnically and culturally- and I sure as hell am not the only one in that situation. What you call "liberal bla bla bla" happens to be my life, so I find that offensive. Good for you if you get to make the choice, I'm going to find it very, very, very difficult to find someone exactly like me.

Even if you don't believe in marrying "outside your culture", you might want to consider that what you're saying here is devaluing people like me. We don't get to make that choice. I don't care what liberals or others have to say about it, no matter what, my marriage will always be "mixed" one way or another. If you're so against discrimination against foreigners, try to be kinder.

As I said, I understand that you're in a bad situation and I do hope it works out for you. You sound as if you're on the right way. That just rubbed me the wrong way.

I am sorry if it offended you or anyone. Of course marriages between too different people will be faded to fail. My personal point is that:

1) Girls at BYU don't even get to know me. They don't even give me a chance. How do they know we are that different?

2) You would be kind of surprised to know how simmilar my culture is to the American culture.

3) Isn't the gospel supposed to be universal? Wasn't I supposed to have the same morals, values, goals and preferences than any mormon in any other part of the world?

4) When I say "liberal bla bla bla", I mean the generally liberal affirmation that Americans tend to discriminate against foreigns. I say I am against it because I am all in favor of justified discrimination, such as the one you mentioned yourself (when you know two cultures are too different). However, as I said, girls at BYU don't even get to know me. And I am not even that ugly. Haha

Again, sorry if my comment offended you. I hope my clarifications can solve any misunderstandings.

If you are only a freshman, I don't see why you can't leave BYU. How many credits would you lose?It would be worth it to me to lose a few and go to a real school. Would your parents help you with another university?Could you get a scholarship? I would look into these things. If you do have to stay, be very careful. As others have said, there are a lot of horror stories about students being kicked out and having their transcripts withheld. Do not use BYU computers to log in here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2010 05:57PM by bona dea.

No, I cannot get out of BYU. As I am from Brazil, our financial conditions are bad, and I struggle to pay tuition even at BYU. There are also no scholarships for international students out there.

Thanks for the advices related to being careful. I will be. I always use my computer at home, and I live off-campus.

Thanks again.

Have you looked at Canadian schools?

How about a community college?

I am the third one, look at Canadian schools. There is a very good ranking just out from MacLeans magazine that will provide you with a lot of information.

McGill #1 again!

lmayk wrote: "Also, I think that the marriage thing here is faker than Obama's Christianity."

Since you have such great knowledge and insight into others' religous belief systems, maybe you should enroll in Rush's "Institute of Advanced Conservative Studies," or in the (Glenn) "Beck University". Or, stay where you are - it's almost the same thing.

As a BYU grad, I would try to find out if you can transfer out of BYU, to a different school - that will give you a scholarship or some type.

If not, then stay and finish at BYU but try to do a second degree elsewhere after that at a non-Mormon university. Even a one year program at another university or college so you aren't stuck with only BYU on your records

There's nothng I hate worse than having BYU on my academic transcript!!!!

anon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lmayk wrote: "Also, I think that the marriage
> thing here is faker than Obama's Christianity."
>
> Since you have such great knowledge and insight
> into others' religous belief systems, maybe you
> should enroll in Rush's "Institute of Advanced
> Conservative Studies," or in the (Glenn) "Beck
> University". Or, stay where you are - it's almost
> the same thing.
Not another Obama is a Muslim believer.

He is surrounded by people who believe this nonsense. I'm shocked at how out of touch people in Utah are with the real world.

I don't give a damn what Obama's religion is. Bush's Christianity cost this country billions since he though God told him to attack Iraq.

axeldc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is surrounded by people who believe this
> nonsense. I'm shocked at how out of touch people
> in Utah are with the real world.
>
> I don't give a damn what Obama's religion is.
> Bush's Christianity cost this country billions
> since he though God told him to attack Iraq.


I don't care if he is a Muslim although I see absolutely no evidence of it. If I am wrong a d he is, I have no problem

Hahaha. Sorry man. By the way, I am more conservative than most BYU students. And at least the BYU political science department is not as conservative as you think it is; 80% of professors are declared democrats.

Nothing wrong with being conservative Imayk. And I agree about a certain person's Christianity. You have every right to believe that without being criticized here like your thoughts are not true for you. Just ignore them.

Since Imayk doesn't accept or believe that Obama is Christian, even though Obama has declared it himself and has attended (and been a member of) Christian churches for MANY years - and there is no credible evidence to the contrary - then I choose not to believe or accept anything Imayk has to say in his posts here. I've decided that he must be a troll, working for BYU, trying to uncover antiMormon sympathizers in the Utah County area. That makes as much sense as his posts have.

anon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since Imayk doesn't accept or believe that Obama
> is Christian, even though Obama has declared it
> himself and has attended (and been a member of)
> Christian churches for MANY years - and there is
> no credible evidence to the contrary - then I
> choose not to believe or accept anything Imayk has
> to say in his posts here. I've decided that he
> must be a troll, working for BYU, trying to
> uncover antiMormon sympathizers in the Utah County
> area. That makes as much sense as his posts have.

I'll believe his post except for Obama being Muslim. That is up there with the moon being made of green cheese.

I ain't nobody special around here, but I would guess that this is why there's a request to keep politics off of the board. Obama's authenticity has nothing to do with anything here. There's nothing wrong with being a conservative (whatever that means), but there are a billion other places to cast baseless aspersions at political figures.

Hey dude, I'm an ex-Mo living in the Provo area. I went to BYU, got two degrees from there. Everything you've said resonates with me.

Anyway, if you ever want to get a beer and hang out, hit me up. knacker104@gmail.com.

for example, if what you wrote is accurate, people already know a lot about you. I do not think you would be hard to locate at BYU.

Keep personal info at a minimum or you may be packing your bags sooner than you think. All somebody has to do is look for a Brazilian freshman who went on a mission to Brazil studying poly sci, taking all senior-level classes, working as a research assistant and a teaching assistant. Not too many of those, right?

I had major issues when I told one TBM to much information about me and how I thought it was all bull. He did not know my name, but he did know my major, age, and a couple of classes I was taking. I almost got kicked out for apostasy.