..yes-that is what I've posted as evidence of what makes a great atheist. It is fact simply stated. I've seen many a post where people are casually mentioning a facet of their (usually) Christian practice of faith..having a cordial discussion with some other poster and one of the boards atheists comes in with a snarky comment of one sort or another. This is just a fact plain and simple.

Benson's posts and his witty subject lines are also a fact.

My post was intended to show the fervid nature of the board atheists; not as a cry of persecution.

So what's your problem?

regarding my comments about adhering to a religion one doesn't believe in; it was made in the context of discussing the opinion that some apparently have that people should not believe their set of beliefs is more valid than another's.

Ok, if you assert that your beliefs are more valid than another's, what are you reasons?

If you assert that your beliefs are no more valid than another's, what makes you a christian?

And I'm still waiting on you to answer my questions about the Nicene Creed which in no way, shape, or form is "not complicated" as you asserted.

Don't worry. I'll wait...

and my answer to that was that is not complicated....see the Nicene Creed.

You are twisting what I said...

I read your response the same way Kolobian did that you were saying the Nicene Creed was not complicated not that the definition of Christian Orthodoxy is not complicated - that it is the Nicene creed.

Well you read it wrong. The implication was that the essence of Christianity can be found in the Nicene Creed. Period.

If what you wrote was misread by 2 out of 2 people that have commented on it perhaps you should consider if it wasn't written as clearly as you think it was.

Am I twisting your words? Or are you trying to get out of the hole you've dug via China?

When asked how one can identify orthodox christianity you said "see the nicene creed. It's not complicated." or something to that effect.

That implies that the nicene creed is not complicated, otherwise how could you reference it as a means of identifying orthodox christianity?

But I see why you don't want to answer my questions. It's because as soon as you do someone else who ALSO prescribes to the nicence creed will disagree with your answers.

And then it will be apparent (as it already is) that it impossible to claim any version of christianity is orthodox.

The nicene creed is gobble-dy-gook. If you claim to understand it so well then by all means: don't be afraid to answer my simple questions.

The question was asked "which" to which I replied that the answer to the question was easy; see the Nicene Creed.

Yes, you are twisting.

I reject your assertion that the nicene creed can be used to identify what is orthodox christianity and what is not because those who purport to believe in the nicene creed all have different god concepts.

To illustrate this point I asked you some VEEEERY simple questions which you STILL haven't answered. If you don't want to answer them, that's fine. Just say so.

But at least admit you're ashamed of the gospel of christ.

You sound like yet another smug arrogant elitist theist.

makes one arrogant then I guess I am.

And you hold to atheism, why? Because you don't believe it's valid?

Says the Christian who just started two threads to bait the atheists...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2012 01:43PM by ronas.

Do the atheists **need** baiting? :)

{{jk}}

I don't see most of the atheist posters as being too heckley jekylly. Often it's more in the way we perceive it.

That is not to say that there aren't some ideas, approaches and comments that niggle me but generally I can avoid feeling overwhelmed by "the atheists" or feeling like my sensitivities are being beat up.

I have said before that "the atheists" often make good points and their questions prove quite difficult to answer satisfactorily. Some of the frustration that some feel may be a result of the difficulties we seem to have in generating rational responses to some of the comments and questions. Perhaps.

I don't excuse absolute rudeness or unnecessary ridicule and other poor posting behaviour, especially in a place like this where people have experienced trauma and are in search mode and may be in need of support. But. I don't think it serves anybody well to be mollycoddled and "protected" to the extent that they can't cope in the real world and may never read or hear exactly the thought that could help them the most.

Some of my best friends are atheists!

Go figure, eh?

notmo is indeed a master baiter.

OK I'll give you a serious answer from an atheist point of view.

This board is called "Recovery from Mormonism"

To those of us who are atheists going from Mormonism to another Christian religion is somewhat of an "out of the frying pan into the fire" thing.

To realize the falsehood of Mormonism requires some level of rational thought to come to a logical conclusion that it is not true. So to us taking that rational thought halfway from Mormonism to Christianity is odd versus taking the rational thought all the way form Mormonism to there is no supernatural force at work in the world today.

If you are involved in any Christian religion you still are involved in many of the same problems. A couple of examples:

- You still have someone scamming you for money. Granted it may not be as much money but organized religion by definition is someone else asking you to give them your money.

- You still have someone telling you what God is and what he wants you to do. Usually including giving them money (back to the first point) and or power.

- You still believe in, essentially, superstition.

Note I am aware there are some liberal churches where this is mostly not true, and most Christian religions are less controlling than Mormonism so it's generally an improvement - "into the fire" is probably the wrong expression maybe it's more like "out of the frying pan into another slightly less hot frying pan."

So from my viewpoint we are attempting to help others complete their recovery by aiding them in examining the real, rational truth that they have begun but not completed the path of.

I will completely agree that some of the approaches of some atheists some of the time on this board are counter-productive. But I also believe that the discussion of theism vs atheism is a very valid discussion point for those recovering from Mormonism.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2012 03:02PM by ronas.

you were duped in Mormonism and you assume that Christians are as well. If I decide to donate my money, I know where it is going and no one knows how much is given except me. Period.

No one 'tells' me what to believe.

Believing in a creator is not superstition.

Ex Mormons make good atheists. This was the beginning of the discussion. Their missionary zeal carries over to their new beliefs and it is exhibited on this board.

"Their missionary zeal carries over to their new beliefs and it is exhibited on this board."

You do realize that you never effectively made this point in your previous thread?

Posting anything on the subject of Christianity immediately draws all sorts of atheists into the discussion; and frequently this is to launch an attack on the Christian faith.

I also referenced Benson's posts.

"believing in a creator is not superstition"

It is if you don't have evidence of a so-called creator. Do you have any evidence?

"You were duped in Mormonism and you assume that Christians are as well. If I decide to donate my money, I know where it is going and no one knows how much is given except me. Period."

Hey it's your money. If you want to leave one scam just to get involved in another that's your choice. If the scammer you are choosing to give your money to has you has convinced that it's not a scam good for them. However, they somehow make a living off your money.

"No one 'tells' me what to believe."

So you don't belong to an organized religion that interprets the Bible for you? The Nicene creed you are touting doesn't tell you what to believe about God?

"Believing in a creator is not superstition."

I'll give you that believing in a creator is not necessarily superstitious. However believing in miracles is.

So are we as fervid as is your anti-Atheist stance ?
I think not.

Just a quick note:

"...and atheism IS a faith..." notmo (http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,388997,394221#msg-394221)

No, by it's definition, it's not...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2012 02:38PM by Finally Free!.

Atheism is not a claim. It is the opposite of a claim.

It is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods.

It is not the claim that no gods exist.

So please, pretty please, with sugar on top, explain what faith is required to lack a belief in any gods?

And logical fallacies such as shifting the burden of proof will not be entertained.

I am an atheist and I make no claims.

And what "evidence" are you speaking of? Now we're getting somewhere...

Please share as that would be a first!

Timothy

How is atheism a system of belief?

How does "faith" enter the equation?

Faith is for fairy tales.

I don't subscribe to fairy tales.

No belief, no faith. Get it?

Timothy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2012 03:21PM by Timothy.

I absolutely agree that atheism is not a faith, but it can definitely be a religion.

Love,
Gleefull Athiest