I was asked by a small group of women to talk about the beliefs of Mormons, since I live in a high saturated area in the south, due to their neighbors being Mormon and/or their kids having Mormon friends. They were all very respectful, just wanted to know how their beliefs were different. But what kind of got to me though, was that they seemed to know that JS was a polygamist. Now I realize the Internet has been around a while and that is probably where they found this information.

My question for you guys is where or when did you find out JS was a polygamist? At what age do BIC figure it out or how did you as a convert figure it out? There are a few obscure references in church approved manuals, but no where near a full narrative of JS's life with 33 wives. And for those of you under say the age of 45...what was your perception of what "time and all eternity" meant?

Please respond as I want to know how it took me 13 years to come across this tidbit of JS (and then another 7yr of cog dis) and how at the point of my disaffection at 20 yrs. that time and all eternity had to do with creating spiritual babies to populate another world. Or do I get the dumbest person on earth award? Before you answer that, realize I joined a few years before the Internet.

It's very clear in D&C 132 and other late D&C stuff that JS was a polygamist.

I don't remember ever not thinking that JS was a polygamist and don't remember how I first found out.

However I had no idea that he was marrying other people's wives until this year. I always assumed it was a couple of wives, not dozens.

When I began my mission. Before that I knew of polygamy but thought it started with Brigham Young in Utah. I think I read a book by a non-Mormon when I first found out. It's occasionally mentioned by LDS authors in Mormon historical books but you kind of have to be a history nerd like me to come across it. Most Mormons only read the scriptures or warm fuzzy books by GA's. You'd have to really be into history or doctrine like me to know about it. Its NEVER mentioned in books and manuals published by the church. So you would never hear it in lessons and it makes Mormons uncomfortable so most members won't mention it in church.

Knowing that polygamy was part of the church's past, and knowing that Joseph Smith was the one who "restored" it, there was no reason for me NOT to think Joseph was a polygamist.

Read No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie. It is a scholarly history book about the life of Joseph Smith. Brodie first published the book in the 1940s, then updated it in the '70s when more information came to light. You will learn all about polygamy and more, and it comes with a huge bibliography of sources should you or anyone else have any doubts. If you read it you will know more about the history of the church than almost any Mormon, let alone any non-mormon.

My son is 15, born and raised in the church. He had no idea the church used to practice polygamy, or even what the word meant, until I told him.

I don't think you are dumb - the church has conveniently forgotten to teach that tidbit for years. Growing up in the church in the 80s everyone knew Joseph and Brigham and a bunch of the others were polygamists. No one was ashamed of it. We were taught it was necessary to build up God's kingdom on earth but was taken away because the world was persecuting the Mormons for living it and, in order to build up the church in safety, God took it away for a little season. But it was a true principle that would return to the church someday.

It astonishes me how many people, even young adults, don't know that Joseph was a polygamist. And worse, if you tell them they often think you are an anti-Mormon liar. I really don't know how people in the church my age (40s) and older deal with it. We are now being told that what we were taught when young is classified as an anti-Mormon lie. If they stop to think about it, that would really make them wonder. But they don't.

I first read about it when I was about 30 and I was BIC, RM attended BYU etc. I read it about in the scholarly journal Dialogue. One of the articles I read that mentioned it was by an instructor I had had at BYU. It's what led me down the path to discovering the truth and leaving the church. I think most TBMs don't know and they don't read stuff on the internet about it because they're told not to do that. I always knew about BY having many wives, but up until I read that article I hadn't known that JS did as well. They don't talk about it at church, it's not something taught in sunday school, it's glossed over and purposely left out of the JS story. It's understandable that you wouldn't have known because the church lies about it.

When (as an adult) I first began looking into the Mormon church, all I knew about it was that it had something to do with Brigham Young and his many wives. I had never heard of Joseph Smith.

When I joined, I had heard that JS had “some other wives.” However, I was assured that they were wives “in name only” whom JS married out of pure and selfless compassion (e.g. widows) and that he did not have sex with them(!) --Yes, I bought it. After all, JS was a prophet of God; so of course he would be respectful toward women, right?

I was assured that polygamy in the church was a thing of the distant past and that the LDS church had had nothing to do with polygamy for 100 years. Furthermore, in gospel doctrine & RS meetings, references to JS’ marital state were always “Joseph and Emma,” “Joseph and Emma,” as though any other wives were superfluous to this normal, legal, loving couple.

It was not until AFTER I LEFT the church!!! and began researching that I discovered that

1) JS had had at least 33 *LDS-documented* wives, with estimates of a total of upwards of 50 wives.

2) Most of his wives were *teenagers* when he married them.

3) 11 of his wives were currently legally married to OTHER men, and JS told them to keep secret from their legal husbands their “celestial” marriage to JS.

4) JS used his position as so-called prophet to persuade young girls who believed in him that they and their families would receive wonderful blessings in the afterlife if only they would allow him to f*** them!
(Of course, he could not be that blunt about what he wanted and succeed in getting it; so instead of calling it f***ing, JS called it the sweet-sounding “celestial marriage.”)

5) All of the first 7 LDS “prophets” practiced polygamy even when it was illegal.

6) Most members know nothing about about points #1-5 above!

Boy, was I angry at this deception! Little did I know that there were many, many more deceptions by the church leadership awaiting my discovery...

Good summary. Just for accuracy I would point out in number 3 he told some of them to keep it secret from their husbands. Some of the husbands knew about it and consented to it and were even in attendance for the wedding ceremony.

Wow. Thank you for the correction!

(My brain cannot fathom why a man would be just fine with his wife "marrying" another man! but there it is.)

Early on JS went to a bunch of his closest followers and asked them to share their wives.

Most of them said yes. Then JS said, just kidding it was a test from god and you passed the test.

He was making sure he had a close inner circle that would support him in his polygamy. And probably also testing the waters to see if he could really get away with it.

In at least one case (I think it was Heber C Kimball) - he said just kidding, I don't want your wife, but I do want your daughter.

Joseph Smith actually had a lot higher batting percentage when he asked the husbands to share their wives than when he went right to the women. Often the women would turn him down flat. (I don't have any evidence that the percentage was higher - it is a supposition.)

It just goes to show the power someone has who others believe to be a prophet.

It was very eye opening to read the court documents of the trial of Brian David Mitchell on the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart to see how he convinced his wife Wanda Barzee that it was god telling him to kidnap and marry Elizabeth Smart and 6 others. I imagine things being very similar with JS.

Is your number two accurate? If he had 33 wives, then 17 of them would have had to be teens at marriage for number two to be accurate.

I was sure I remembered reading that over half the wives were teenagers when they got "married" to JS. However, in checking the following source, I count only 10 wives who were 19 or younger when JS “married” them.

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

It was common knowledge when I was a kid in Utah (early 90s). Also polygamists are still all over Utah, and easy enough to spot.

I never knew that JS was marrying other peoples wives though, until recently.

I was BIC 58 years ago. I found out about JS 6 months ago.

Holy Hannah! One would think if a man or a woman had 33 wives/husbands it would play a part in his life history/narrative. I taught from the JS manual the immediate 2 years prior to my disaffection and that finally. Rome the camels back when I started realizing that the church lacks integrity and NEVER takes responsibility for any of its actions...paints a pretty picture.

Is this what led you here? Were you completely shocked?

It wasn't talked about much, but the general attitude in my family and in the wards I attended was that, of course, JS would have practiced plural marriage because he was given the commandment. Besides, There are polygamists all over my family tree, so it was no big deal.

It isn't your fault you didn't know. I was a member for 40 years and didn't know. Brigham I knew about. In the 70's I toured the Behive House and they all but bragged about his polygamy. But Joseph? Never mentioned anywhere. Emma was his one and only judging by what the church puts in its lesson manuals.

Actually yes there are 2 manuals that state JS was a polygamist. One in the D & C religion manual and the green Church History in the Fullness of Times religion manual. If you want specific page numbers, I can give them.

I was BIC 48 years ago and grew up knowing about JSmitty's polygamy, but like everybody else, knew nothing of his wife stealing.

If you think about it though, it's perfectly natural that a narcissistic megalomaniac like Smith would become a wife stealer, after all, he took the practice of Polygamy from the Bible. Why not go ahead and follow God's chosen, King David in wife stealing?

Thanks,

Stunted.

Even if it's in the manuals, I could easily understand somebody not knowing about it. Nobody reads the manuals except the teacher, and the teacher will only teach the parts they feel comfortable with, there being more than enough material in the lesson to get through in 45 minutes.

Church History in the Fulness of Times Religion 341-43 (green manual) mine is copyright 1989.

Pg. 256
"Moreover, Joseph Smith and the Church were to accept the principle of plural marriage as part of the restoration of all things (see v.45). Accustomed to conventional marriage patterns, the Prophet was at first understandably reluctant to engage in this new practice. Due to lack of historical documentation, we do not know what his early attempts were to comply with the commandment in Ohio. His first recorded plural marriage in Nauvoo was to Louisa Beaman; it was performed by Bishop Joseph B. Noble on 5 April 1841. During the next three years Joseph took additional plural wives in accordance with the Lotd's commands."

Then if you go to History of the Church, volume 6, p.411, on Sunday, May 26, 1844, preached from the stand in Nauvoo, "...What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers."

That is a pretty bold lie and it is not the only one. So God need his prophets to lie to bring about his plans? The church will probably say, "Hey it is a few manuals, we did not keep it from you", but I think it is really shitty of them to not provide an accurate characterization of Joseph Smith, and paint a picture of a pious devoted Romeo to his Emma.

I have not located the D & C study manual yet, but will provide publication dates etc when I do.

Check out:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

By my count the minority of the wives were teenagers according to this one site based on the book In Sacred Loneliness.

But there is a lot of question of how many wives Joseph Smith really had. My guess is it was a lot more than just this list.

I went to BYU in the 1980s and took two semesters of church history from Susan Easton Black. And there wasn't anything she held back on, include Joseph Smith's polygamous wives. It was from her I first heard the story of Emma pushing one of Joseph's plural wives down the stairs.

We had to write a paper each semester and I remember some of her suggestions for topics - the changing interpretation of the WoW from suggestion to commandment, the practice of polygamy in Mexico after the manifesto, etc.

It would be interesting to take church history at BYU now and see how much it's been watered down.

In class Ms. Black told us about her assignment from the first presidency to go through the historical record of Joseph and Brigham's plural wives. As I remember, there were hundreds of women who married their husbands for time, but had themselves sealed to Joseph or Brigham for eternity. Her job was to track them all down so that the temple work could be done to seal these women to their original husbands.

I wish I still had my notes from those classes. I bet there'd be also sorts of stuff in there that the church now considers anti-mormon.

Wait, why would church leadership wish to cancel all the sealings of these many women to Brig and Joe, and seal them to their earthly husbands? Those women were given to Joe and Brig by god,and sealed by the priesthood. Why try to reverse that now?

Not disputing your report at all, bezoar, just trying to understand the leaders' motivation for this, as it doesn't seem to make much sense.

I always wondered if JS was a polygamist and was told that even though he got the revelation he was in love with Emma only. As a convert I was taught the polygamist was BY, he started it. On one visit to Kirtland I found a book called "Emma, mormon enigma" which got my attention. I bought it and that's how I first learned about JS's polygamist past. I never finished the book, I ony read bits of it.

When I started to doubt the church two years ago, I looked for the book and read it all. My daughter glanced through it and she said "JS was married to many wives, so what's up with this image of Joseph and Emma being so much in love with each other that we're taught". She grew up in the church and never even suspected Joseph being a polygamist.

D

Joe was a polygamist.

What I did not know was:

he was sleeping with other women 10 years before the so-called revelation

he was marrying other men's wives

he was marrying teenagers

he was promising salvation for families that turned over young women for his pleasure

he was marrying/sleeping with pretty much anyone anytime anywhere

he was enthusiastic about polygamy, we were taught he fought against it and finally, tearfully caved to god's orders...yeah, right.

Fawn Brody was telling us the truth, and the brethren were lying

actually Joe was not a polygamist, he was an adulterer, by biblical convention, ironically that he falsely claimed justififed his indulgent actions/sin, an adulterer even by the conditions of his own decree on the matter, (which Joe obviously did not want applied in his case as he actually condemned himself and thought he was pulling another one over on his sucker followers and the public. ppl let Joe get away with another scam when they call him a polygamist. Con man, blasphemer, LIAR, fraud, adulterer, are all far more adept labels /titles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqG5skfZcrE


MORmONS constantly try to emulate the Jews,
.....when they arent trying to emulate the muslims,
Joe claimed he was trying to emulate abraham & mosaic law
when he started up with plural sex partners / his adultery.
as usual Joe was really off base & really twisting things very badly. Joe said he was aspiring to Mosaic/Jewish law, he was really FULL of LDS BS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqG5skfZcrE

here is the crash course

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6brMrFw0E