My name is Scott. I am 19 and have been born and raised in the church. My dad has been a bishop and still holds high church positions. My mother is the same. Everyone in my family is active and LDS. I am the youngest in my family, out of 6 kids.

I'm not sure exactly how to explain this on here, but the reason why I am considering leaving the church is because I am gay. I'm single and I am a marine.

I choose not to serve a mission when I was 19, due to my testimony and belifes about myself. I did not feel I could teach something I did not live at the time, because I was in the closet. I choose another alternative at the time, choosing military service. For as long as I can remember I have been gay. I've felt this way before I even knew what "gay" was. I even remember having homosexual experiences as a kid and not even knowing what it was.

My parents have since accepted my lifestyle as a marine, but they consider me to be doing the "wrong" idea in my life. I am happy with where my life is going in the military. I am on good terms with my unit and my platoon has become a family to me.

I don't want to hurt my family, but I want to be happy and honest. I already live a hard lifestyle. I'm expecting deployment in a few months and I am under a lot of mental and physical stress already. Life in the marines is hard. I almost never get personal time for myself.

Also, what would be the churches dicision for disiplinary action against me?

Part of my reason for writing this, and asking for advice is; the bishop from my branch called me two nights ago, asking why I hadn't been to church in several months.

If you're happy in the military, you made the right choice no matter what anyone else says.

Plus, you are being true to yourself.

You don't owe anybody any explanations for your military service or your orientation.

If don't want church discipline, don't engage them. They most likely won't do anything to you without a confession. So dont confess.

Take care of yourself, marine. Our country needs good soldiers who are happy to serve.

Thank you for serving.

Come out as gay when you're ready & not before. If your branch bishop wonders why you're not attending meetings, tell him, um, you're a marine preparing for deployment and, duh, you have to be in such-and-such place during church meeting times.

Your life is your own. Live it on your own terms and don't let anyone demean you. You're already a hero in many eyes, including mine.

P.S. Those "um" and "duh" asides were meant for your bishop, not for you. I have no asides for you, brave young man.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 09:17PM by Sorcha.

and I hope it works well for you.

Chances are really good that your parents called your bishop and asked him to call you. It is quite acceptable to simply tell him that you are choosing to be inactive for now and refuse to discuss it any further. Just change the subject. He will report back any information you give him, so don't feed him anything. He has no authority over you - he just doesn't know it yet.

They aren't going to ex you for being inactive. They'd have to ex half the membership. They aren't even interested in discipline unless you embarrass the church in some way, which is highly unlikely.

You are happy in the military and you are making choices that give you satisfaction...so don't let some bishop drill you on where you have been and why haven't you been to "church". Keep your personal life to yourself. YOU owe them nothing.

I am a nevermo with a daughter who converted. It pains me to think that one day my grandson will feel compelled to share anything sexual with an untrained bishop. It is nonsense. I agree that you could be in no better place now. Serving your country as you are surely gives you pride that many can't ever understand. But we can support you which I do. I know it is hard. YOU need to not worry over stuff like this. Glad you are content where you are, so take one day at a time and don't allow any Mormon to bug you. If your parents are upset with your decision to leave the church and then treat you badly, they are not Christian at all. They are brainwashed and love their church more than their own child. SAD. You can try to keep a relationship going but you have such a long life to live. Find people who respect and love you for you...not what organization you belong to.....and the LDS group is nothing but a business organization. Good luck. Many people here can help on those days you need to vent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 09:20PM by honestone.

Officially the church tolerates gays as long as those gays are living a celibate lifestyle. Despite this, we've had a few reports on this board of some rogue bishops going after celibate gay members. If at some point you were living with a partner in an intimate relationship, you would be opening yourself to the possibility of church discipline including possible/probable excommunication.

Another alternative is to resign from the church. We can assist you with that if you ever want to do it. Many board members have already resigned. Some board members choose to stay in the church (as either active or inactive members) for family or other reasons.

As for coming out to your family, you know them better than we do. How would they likely react? Might they be able to adjust to the news, or would they likely shun you?

You are very young with a mobile lifestyle, and I don't think that this is a decision that you have to make right now if you don't want to. As another board member pointed out, you could simply tell all concerned that you are busy with your military duties and wish to remain inactive with the church for now.

Thank you for your service. I think that you made a very mature decision to follow your own best interest as opposed to someone else's idea for how you should spend your life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 02:35AM by summer.

You are amazing! You are strong! You are perfect. DO Not allow the bishop or any other church member question you or try and guilt you. Coming out should be on your terms period, when you are ready, not because youve been inactive. If you are happy in the military, and you have a family type atmosphere to lean on, lean on them. You are young and gaining that trust and support with your military family will most likely give you the strength and courage needed to tell your other family who you are, and own it when you do. The churches treatment of the gay community is what lead me to what would become my exit from the church. I would stay as far away from their damaging teachings as possible. Like the other posters, make up an excuse and wait for deployment. Being sick and visiting friends in other wards is a great excuse as well.

Good luck. Stay strong. Know you are loved by many. :)

I am 100% str8 and I love women only and I can trace that back to a very young age in my life as a boy. I wonder if its learned or innate within us to be str8 or gay? Why do some ppl like seafood and others don't? Its interesting to think about it... My heck, I can remember exact details of what it is about women that turn me on.

As far as your bishop, you owe him dog sh#t. Its your life man, enjoy it. The world is your oyster, partake of all its wonderful discoveries while you are young. You are free and protected by the US constitution to live your life, liberty and persuit of happiness. Make it a good one!

By the way, the church is a grand hoax...so don't worry about it.

Some advice from an older gay brother...

don't let anyone pressure you into coming out UNTIL YOU ARE READY. It is one of the most profound experiences of your life and can be a true celebration, even for those of us from TBM families!

You don't owe an explanation to ANYONE, not your parents, bishop, no one.

Gay people are sooooo lucky. They get to choose their families. Sometimes they choose their biological families, sometime it's better to create their family of choice. It's good to see that you're already experiencing this with your unit and platoon.

Just between you and me, you're one lucky bastard. Young and gay!! Dude, you've got it made!! If I had a hundred more lives to live, I'd want to be gay in every one of them. Being gay is the greatest gift in my life. Gay guys live AWESOME lives! I can promise you that you will soon feel the same. Love yourself, trust yourself, and allow yourself to accept just how awesome you are!

+everything. This is brilliant advice marine 19. Take it from a really old brother. I would double everything said here and tell it to every young gay mormon out there.

Thanks Sonoma.

You have already taken your life into your own hands. All you have to do now is continue that. There is a big brilliant world out there, and your bishop and the church are not part of that. They do not want what's best for you. They want you to live half a life, and you've already broken the chains.

I am so excited for you and thanks for serving.

Posted in the wrong spot. Whhoops



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 03:56PM by blueorchid.

Tell them only if or when it suits you.

Sadly, they're not likely to ever approve of your life plan because mormonism has its own very narrow plan for life and eternity.

None of us want to hurt mormons. The problems and the hurt are programmed and set in motion by their church, not by us. In a healthy accepting church, we'd have no problem being trasparent with our families. Unfortunately, this isn't possible in the mormon church/family culture.

You're alreadly dealing with extreme stress. In your situation I think I wouldn't try to explain anything to mormons. Just tell them no thanks you're not interested in answering questions or attending church. Harassment won't be tolerated.

There's no need to answer questions just because someone is rude enough to ask them. You're an adult and don't have to answer to anyone but yourself at this point.

It's wonderful that you've found a trustworthy support group. Good luck and take care.

A question and a point.

How have you been treated by your platoon as an openly gay marine?

My response to the Bishop would be 'When I feel I wish to discuss this with you I will contact you.' This can be said kindly the first time you need to respond. If he persists then you should get progressively more assertive.

Tell him the truth that you no longer wish to be a member. After all you are 19 and a so called Marine. Let the consequences follow.

I wouldn't give the church anything on you. As soon as you give them information, you've lost control of it. The whole point of privacy is protecting your rights.
If you "confess" or otherwise let on, they can take church disciplinary action as long as you voluntarily remain a member.
If you resign, they have no jurisdiction.
Voluntary resignation is an action that was imposed on the church by a court. It's a civil right, one that you're defending now in military service. Use it.

I'm downrange myself, proud to serve. I'm also proud that the military is finally beginning to recognize gay rights. You'll see some prejudice in your military experience, but also a whole new community of conscientous gay servicemembers and supporters. Anti-gay bigotry is being increasingly exposed as just dogmatic travesty.

To answer your one question about disciplinary action, that depends on your local leadership. If they are dipwads, you have reason to fear disciplinary actions. If they are a collection of nice guys, maybe not. The church would support whatever their decision would be, and you would have no appeal.

When I served in Africa, one of the Marine Security Guard group for the embassy was gay. He was not allowed to be open back then (2007), but we all new, including Gunny. There was no way the guy could hide it, either, because he was over the top. But he was supported and protected by his other Marines, including Gunny himself. For one thing, he was the best one there, the most responsible and the most able. We all looked up to him. I think even the Marines are getting past this whole gay thing. It largely depends on the education level of the people you fall in with, I suppose.

Most of all, don't heap any more stress on yourself than you already get from the stress of your deployment. A sure way out of this is to finally resign your membership.

First, thank you for your service.

Second, concentrate on your job as a Marine.

Third, when you're settled, if you want care packages and stuff, if you'll let us here know, you'll find that you'll have a more caring, non-judgmental family who'll keep you in their thoughts and make sure you have what incidentals you need that you can't get over there.

If they are hurt by you being gay or no longer being a member, that is the result of their dysfunctional beliefs, not anything about you or anything you did.

The LDS uses family to manipulate the family members. It is an appalling practice that harms more than just gay and exmormons in the family. You are now in a position where the reality of that manipulation is quite evident. They have you felling that you may need to suppress who you are in order not to offend your family.

Welcome to the board and we're so glad to meet you.

We're military also stationed in Germany, so you're not the only military member hanging out on RfM periodically.

Seriously just enjoy your life. We've been military now for almost 2 decades, and the work is long and hard, so you don't need anyone or anything making any more pressure for you than your military service already causes.

I'm so thankful you are open and honest about yourself and how you really feel. Just keep in mind there is always help for you here, or in the military community, if you need an ego boost!!

at least have a place to live or be able to move soon.

You could tell your Bishop or whoever asks you why you do not attend to mind their own business, or tell them it's personal - i.e none of their business.

Don't rush into anything. You should expect the worst - a family who disowns you and offers you no further help or financial aid. Prepare for the worst, and be surprised if it goes better than this.

Don't expect your parents to love you more then the cult. Sorry if it seems harsh saying this but your parents are in a mind-control cult and are not rational.

Take care, love yourself, and be true to yourself.

Thank you for your service.

You don't owe anyone an explanation about anything. You are being true to yourself and that is all that matters.

The most important thing is to focus on where you are going, focus on what you need to do to come home safe, and worry about everything else later.

It sounds like you already have a family who has accepted you for who you are - your platoon.

I know where you're coming from. I come from a very TBM family as well - Dad's a sealer in the Nauvoo Temple and the stake patriarch, brother was bishop, sister was stake relief society president, sister-in-law is now.

I spent too much of my life trying to do what I thought I was supposed to do and trying not to disappoint my family. And it damn near killed me. I ended up massively depressed, hospitalized, suicidal, etc.

From my experience, you have to be true to yourself. It's nice to have the approval of parents and family, but believe me, you can't sacrifice yourself to do it. Sooner or later you're going to break.

The easiest way to get the bishop off your back is to resign your membership. Don't know if that's an option for you or not. And it's up to you if/when you want to come out to your family. But if you do, make sure everyone understands that you've made your choices and that they are not up for discussion. If anyone says they're disappointed, just tell them you hope they find some way to deal with their disappointment.

My story has something of a happily-ever-after ending. I left the church and came out as gay. I've had my rough patches with the family, but now I'm pretty much accepted the way I am. My boyfriend of seven years is considered another member of the family and has gone home to spend Christmas with my family several times. I'm definitely the favorite uncle to my nieces and nephews.

Bottom line - you have to do whatever is best for you. If family or anyone else is disappointed, that's their problem, not yours. You won't be happy unless you're true to yourself.

By the way, are you aware of OUTserve? It's the association of actively-serving gay U.S. military members. I went to their first conference last October in Las Vegas. It's an incredible group of people!

1st off Thank You for serving in the U.S. Marine Corps, my son is a Marine also, being a Marine Mom I have a pride in him, that no mother can explain. I follow many Parents of Marines and like any family whose child is serving in any branch we must be there for our children through the good and the bad. My son will be in his permant duty station soon and that means he could be deployed at any time, and for that I am a nervous wreck. Now as for your lifestyle, no need to be ashamed, you should do what you need to do so your own sanity is not questioned. So come out and be happy.. As I alway's sign off to my son, Semper Fi, always faithful to my son.. Good luck in your military life!!

If I could do it all over, I would much rather have been a marine than a missionary.

Come out when you are ready to own it proudly and as an announcement not as a confession or apology.

Confessing anything to a Bishop or church authority is all about mind control. Don't give in to their emotional blackmail. They have absolutely no right to question you and in no way do they represent the "lord". Confession is a cult control tactic. Do a google search on cult methods and observe the similarities yourself.

Do not let anyone put you down. Many folks- including this here old dog- are proud of you.

... you did ask:

"Also, what would be the churches dicision for disiplinary action against me?"

You're a f**kin' Marine, my friend. The only answer to that question would be "Who gives a s**t?"

You've been trained to kick a** and take names (if, of course, you have time). Don't let some punk religion punk you.

These people you worry about hurting live under a security blanket you provide. You don't have to answer to anyone for that.

You ROCK, marine 19. Accept it!

Timothy

THANKS SINCERELY FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY!!
Being a marine is NOT easy.......I don't know from personal experience but have heard from my brother.
Tell the church the truth. If they can't handle it, that's their problem not yours.
You can't be stressed out worrying about them. Hang in there. Remember that citizens here in the USA are grateful to you.

Hello marine19. Thanks for your service.
Except for the gay part, I was exactly in your situation (but in the Army instead). I was also having a little trouble with the local bish (stationed in Alaska at the time), and quite by accident I discovered something I'll share with you!
Go see your battalion Chaplin. You'll be amazed at the things he/she can do for you. ;)

Finally, don't be afraid to resign from TSCC. Your family will get over it sooner or later. Mine did

Cheers!

That Mormon training of reporting, explaining yourself, and disclosing personal information to them and submitting to their Authority is kicking in.

If you feel the need to explain anything it would be this,
"I don't believe that Joseph Smith was a Prophet!"
"I don't believe that LDS Inc. is the One True Church on the earth today"
"And I don't believe you have any authority Priesthood Authority from God!", therefore I don’t report to you.

and I feel no need to submit to your self proclaimed Authority!

Because at the end of the day it's not about you, you sexual orientation, your honesty or integrity, it's about the fact that they are perpetrating a fraud and you have realized it's all a lie.

I would not disclose anything about yourself to them that will allow them to throw that information into the gossip mill so everyone in Mormonville can say to themselves. ohhh, he's gay, that why he wants out. The Church is True.

“I don’t believe because it’s not true.” would be closer to the truth and advise them to follow their own 11th Article of faith and allow you to do the same.

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

The church is not true. If you still believe in it, do some more research & you'll find out it's not what it claims to be.

That negates any need to talk to any leader within it.

If I were you, I'd focus on your job as a US Marine, for which you have my admiration, respect & support.

At 19, you have LOTS of time to deal with being gay, and as others have said, it's really an exciting time to be gay!

Godspeed!

I have found that the way the church feels about its military members and the way it treats them are two different things. In practice, too many members take a condescending attitude about young men and women who decide to serve their country. Excuse me, how is riding around on a bike, and pestering people by knocking on their doors, and lying to non-members about the church anywhere near as valuable to society as military service? You are doing the right thing.

Stay sharp, and have fun kicking the asses of a bunch of religious bigots who think everyone needs to confirm to the ideals of their child molesting prophet. Rather it be on the battlefield or at home.

Your bishop (and any church/cult leader) has only as much power as you let him have. You can let it go.

Right now, I'd just make excuses and avoid any discussion with your bishop or parents about you leaving the church or being gay.

Focus on your deployment. Get home safely and then live an unrestricted open life.

Objectively, the church is the most homophobic, racist, mysoginistic organization in the U.S. Don't associate yourself with it.

BTW, the military is hands down better than a mission. Don't let the pussies that say otherwise affect you.

You're an extremely thoughtful and insightful person, given the content of your post. I envy you.

Best of luck, brother.