(thank you doubleb for putting together these figures. original post here http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,399129 )

2010 adjusted gross income: $21,646,507
2010 net after-tax income: $18,636,741
2010 tax: $3,009,766
2010 cash donations made to LDS church: $1,525,000 (on pg 140 of return)
Effective tax rate: 13.9% (this is the key figure the press is flipping out about)
Tithing rate on gross pre-tax income = $1.5/21.6 = 7.0%
Tithing rate on net after-tax income = 8.2%

He claims that he WILL be paying more Tithing in the ESTIMATED figures he gave for his PROPOSED tax filing for 2011, BUT HE HASN'T FILED THOSE TAXES YET. 2010 figures are the only hard figures we have, and they show less than 10% no matter how you slice it!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 05:20PM by sonoma.

Thanks for doing that math for those of us who are completely math impaired. Very interesting information. I wonder how the TBM's we love and/or tolerate will react when we hit them with this news.

Because you know there are a few people on this board (me) who can't wait to share. In fact, this may have to be a Facebook status...

Thanks CA Girl, but doubleb did the work. I just copied his figures, and reinterpreted them.

There is no tithing rule that you have to pay the tithing in the same year that you earned the money.

He may have cashed in a large amount of bonds in late Dec 2010 and paid the tithing in Jan 2011.

In fact the figures you give in your other post indicate that is exactly what he did.

Two words for you, Ronas. Tithing Settlement.

I've never ever been given the option to pay tithing by overlapping years. My bish would have looked at me like I was from another planet if I had suggested it. If it wasn't paid up at tithing settlement there is no recommend for you.

I know people that take out loans at the end of the year to pay up so they can get their recommend.

obviously once you make a certain amount of $$$ you are exempt from paying a full tithe. I would be curious to know how rich you have to be before you won't go to hell for hoarding your money.

You typically go to tithing settlement in late November / early December.

In real life, I know a number of people who had their temple recommend yanked because come December, they didn't have a thousand dollars or so that they needed to be considered full-tithe payers. Our home teacher when I was a teenager, was an investment guy and one year, he waited til December to pay tithing, only to find he was several thousand dollars short. He paid what he could but he just couldn't come up with the difference. Our bishop took away his temple recommend for the whole next year and his wife's temple recommend as well, since it was considered joint income. For the next year, neither were allowed to attend the temple until the next December, when they could declare they were full tithe payers.

I'd say that this was just a rogue bishop, and maybe he is extreme, but I've known a lot of people who couldn't pay full-tithe at tithing settlement and had their recommends taken away for several months until they "caught up" both on the previous year and were up to date on the current year. It scared me so bad that two different years we actually put a couple hundred dollars on a credit card check, just so we could declare ourselves full tithe payers. Crazy.

ronas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no tithing rule that you have to pay the
> tithing in the same year that you earned the
> money.

Every Bishop that I ever had would disagree with you.
>
> He may have cashed in a large amount of bonds in
> late Dec 2010 and paid the tithing in Jan 2011.

Got any evidence for that? And why would he cash in and have tax liabilities for it in one year, and not take the deduction the same year?
>
> In fact the figures you give in your other post
> indicate that is exactly what he did.

I didn't give figures in another post. I think hat you're crediting me for doubleb's work. And i don't see how those figures indicate any such thing. I think that they indicate that he's trying to cover up the fact that he doesn't pay a full tithe.

It doesn't happen on Dec 31st. Most bishops start it in early November.

The bishop asks a yes/no question. Are you a full tithe payer? If you answer yes, he says good job. The interview is over. He doesn't ask any more questions.

The only reason a bishop is going to ask more is if the person being interviewed brings it up. If the interviewee says, well I've gotten a little behind but I'm planning to make it up, then yes they may have their temple recommend taken away.

So when I was a TBM and had been a full tithe payer my entire life I often had this scenario: I paid my tithing once or twice a month. When I went into tithing settlement I hadn't necessarily paid tithing on my most recent pay day. It didn't matter. I still said I was a full tithe payer. And I was a full tithe payer. I always kept the schedule and paid tithing on all of my income.

I believe my approach is the way the majority of TBMs handle it.

Even if Romney thinks it's super important that he has paid tithing on all income up until 1 second before he walks into tithing settlement, that happens in late November / early December.

I really don't care if Romney pays a full tithing or not. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. However, you don't have proof either way.

Hey, but congrats on your position with the Romney Campaign!

Actually I'm not a Romney supporter. I do, however, like to point out when faulty logic is used as "proof".

Note: Maybe that's because I spent nearly 40 years as a TBM accepting faulty logic as proof.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 05:55PM by ronas.

recap
2010 adjusted gross income: $21,646,507
2010 net after-tax income: $18,636,741
2010 cash donations made to LDS church: $1,525,000 (on pg 140 of return)
Tithing rate on gross pre-tax income = $1.5/21.6 = 7.0%
Tithing rate on net after-tax income = 8.2%

So he had to wait until 2011 to pay is 2010 tithing because 17 million dollars just wouldn't cover it? talk about faulty logic...

Possible scenario.

Dec 28,2010 Romney sells $6,000,000 of stock.
Jan 3,2011 Romney pays $600,000 tithing

If that were the case the numbers would look like this:
2010 adjusted gross income: $21,646,507
2010 net after-tax income: $18,636,741
2010 cash donations made to LDS church: $1,525,000 (on pg 140 of return)
Tithing rate on gross pre-tax income = $1.5/21.6 = 7.0%
Tithing rate on net after-tax income = 8.2%

2011 adjusted gross income: $20,901,075
2011 net after-tax income: $17,674,452
2011 tax: $3,226,623
2011 cash donations made to LDS church: $2,600,000 (on pg 69 of return)
Effective tax rate: 15.4% (in the press)
Tithing rate on gross pre-tax income = $2.6/20.9 = 12.4%
Tithing rate on net after-tax income = 14.7%

Funny, those are the numbers...

that he DIDN'T pay a full tithe in the ONLY return that he has actually filed. The figures from 2011 are an ESTIMATE of what he MIGHT claim. They're more likely an OBVIOUS and ham handed way of trying to cook the books vis-a-vis his tithing.

By you're accounting, everyone here is a full tithe-payer, we'll just catch up next year!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 06:12PM by sonoma.

Doesn't Romney also tithe with stocks? So maybe that makes up the difference?

I don't know if you want the accounting nerd details, but his 2010 Schedule A lists donations in the form of cash and donations not in cash (in stock). Cash donations per Statement 5 explicitly say cash to the LDS Church of $1,525,000. His 2010 Form 8283 explicity lists donations of stock (mostly publicly traded stock in the Domino's Pizza company) given to the Tyler Foundation. There are no stock donations in 2010 given to the LDS Church. 2011 is the same thing. Obviously in prior years he could have donated stock (and I'd be surprised if he hadn't...really, I'm surprised he didn't do it in 2010 and 2011). But, the numbers are what they are and these two years, old Mitt wrote out some big checks.

Its for the really stupid gullible faith FOOL rank & file regular members


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0mPhgJx0rY

Does the $1,525,000 "Cash" also include stock that he used to pay tithing?

I don't actually think anybody will care that much. Most mormons don't pay full tithing, and all it means is that Mitt Romney can't go to the temple and have big callings, neither of which I imagine he does anymore anyway. The mormons will still love him because he's a mormon right-wing politician. It's the same how they love mormon celebrities even though they didn't go on missions. They'll make exceptions if they're in the spotlight.

Excuse my ignorance, but what does he do that justifies earning $18mil / year?

He sits around and does nothing and collects money on his investments.

It's not like he's a rock star.

There are plenty of topics to show what a fraud Mormonism is. But when you add up the 2010 and 2011 numbers and how accounting is done its a big ado about nothing. It reminds me of the Ed Decker approach that is excellent at keeping people in the church.

I suspect that when you pay as much tithing as Romney, they are happy to give you a pass if you don't pay the whole amount, or if you pay it in a different year.