Back in my day we used to pantomime slashing our throats and cutting our guts out if we were to turn our back on Mormonism.

Now they have taken the word "secrecy" out of the Endowment.

Back in my day we constantly rolled our eyes at all the branches of the "church of the Devil."

Now they join with other churches in political movements.

Back in my day archaeology was on the verge of "proving the Book of Mormon."

Now they say that scholarship can't prove it or disprove it.

Back in my day we emphasized that we were going to become Gods in the next world.

Now they hem and haw about it.

Could it be that all the rules and intrusiveness need to be attached to some strong, exceptional doctrine? Is that why people are leaving the Church? Is it because they have become too doctrinally mamby pamby?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2012 06:43PM by baura.

It like the navy seals saying that to become part of that elite unit --all you have to do is complete ""BASIC TRAINING""

Anybody can do it, but what would be its worth ..Its like grading on the curve ..

Just imagine if the top 15 in April Conference announced

1 All brethren can now take up to 3 wives

2 Every Family from all over the world is expected to move to Utah under the Law of the Gathering

3 That all you surplus money and property is to be donated to the Presiding Bishopric under the Law of Consecration..

The only ones that stayed would be the faithful and strong ones and the rest would run from the Chapels in a mass exodus

JB

The watering down certainly helped me to be ready to leave.

I recall watching general conference after general conference waiting, hoping, for some new doctrine, some huge prophesy or revelation. Of course they never came. Then I wondered why I didn't enjoy any of my church meetings, but particularly Sunday School. I realised it was because we weren't actually *learning* anything. Everything was being dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. If you'd been in the church for 10+ years, you will have learned everything the Brethren want to to learn, many times over. But there was no place in the lesson manuals for the "deep doctrine" I had learned through word of mouth. I even started to wonder whether "deep doctrine" was supposed to be learned in the temple, but that was blatantly not true either. It was just the creation story followed by some funny handshakes and passwords.

I experienced these thoughts many times over the last 10 years, add in some science and some atheist thoughts, and I was more than ready to stop believing even before I even learned about church history.

Has watering down and mainstreaming helped the apostasy?

That is a good question. I think you can argue yes in some ways and no in some other ways. Watering down (to me) was the attempt to make it more popular (with both members and in society). To the hardcore TBM's, it might have been less favorable. The change leads to suspicion by some.

To me, what the church has done is to "simplify" doctrine and history, to make it more black and white for members. That is what upset so many (of course) because it involved lies, fabrications, changing history, ignoring early doctrines and statements by BY, JS, JT, etc. What was also necessary was to glorify JS and make him this supreme prophet and person that did more for mankind than anyone other than JC (Mormon focus)--this led to making JS something it totally wasn't. This has led to the Church of JS.

And public preferences swing back and forth. Sometimes people want super conservative, fundamentalist religions, sometimes they want liberal religions. The past few decades has seen a growth in conservative religions while liberal religions have been waning.

Individual religions often pass through reform phases, either to become more liberal or to retrench and get back to the old fundamentals.

I think we can see competing forces within the Big15. The compromise has been to try to look normal and inclusive to the potential new customer base while tightening the screws inside the church. Sure, the church has stopped stressing a few things here and there, but being a Mormon has become more and more about total obedience. No joy, no enlightenment, just nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel, fulfill multiple callings, do your duties, pay your tithing, obedient drudgery.

abetted in large part by the internets and social media.

remember in the 70's when Harvey Milk implored closeted gays to come out as sons, daughters, fathers, co-workers, neighbors and teachers?

40 years later, you have the newest generation that could care less about another person's sexuality.

Today, closeted doubters and even TBM's are experiencing the same phenomena. More and more friends, neighbors and relatives are publicly leaving and prospering.

Throw in the social networking now available to exmo's and leaving is not only easier, it starts to make sense.

Being called a liar and an apostate for simply repeating what I was taught in my younger days can certainly be problematic.

Mormonism is a lifestyle, and when dubious doctrine disappears, active members are frequently happy to see it go; there is less opportunity for embarrassment that way. It doesn't matter if previous prophets declared it eternal. I've seen it go both ways... some people who lived it declare it never existed, and others fight going upstream trying to keep it alive.

Now correlation (with dumbing-down being a subset of that).... that's what turned mormons into obedient automatons, constant mindless drudgery while enduring to the end. People get worn out with little positive return. Then when you get called a liar.......

Being called an enemy of the faith for photocopying a prophets words to prove I wasn't a liar, well that is about enough.

not better. It is so BORING. Maybe I was just unaware when I was younger, but correlation, etc., such control from the top is ridiculous. There is so much micro mgmt.

The members who were well educated in the doctrines of the church, but who had doubts will throw in the towel. Those who know the doctrines, old and new, but who have no self-identity outside of the church will roll with the punches and hold on. These two groups are probably only 20% of the church. Most members will be oblivious to the whole shift, or it will make it easier for them to be publically Mormon, and to attract new members.

It is a good trade-off, give up 10-15% of the members who would not have left otherwise in exchange for long-term survivability.

I left back when there was nothing watered down about it. You could still become a god, there was no Lamanite DNA yet, and you could still slit your own throat in the Temple.

That did make it nearly impossible to leave oddly enough.

I think the holes in mormonism exposed by Google help, but making the church mainstream the way they are now, is going to ultimately make it "just another church" and that will make it easier to leave.

God's one and only true church really needs to be supremely unique in order to survive. Once the special ceremonies are commonly known as masonic rip-offs, once the asian DNA of the indians is more widely known, when the fraud of the BoA is spotlighted....what's left that's unique? They already gave up the polygamy and coffee turns out to be healthy! They will to be shown to be as wrong about the gays as they were about the blacks.

Since none of the TSCC's eccentricities can withstand scrutiny, there will soon be nothing left but a boringly hollow shell who's only capability is its ability to destroy families and self esteem and relieve you of your cash.

The God of Thunder died a pretty quick death once man understood it was just two clouds colliding.

Any prophet worth his salt needs to channel some major Razzle Dazzle revelations fast.

It all began with noticing inconsistencies. Which were explained away, of course, as my doubts were put back on the shelf. But if a TBM can at least admit the inconsistencies then we have an environment where critical thinking can begin.

"I recall watching general conference after general conference waiting, hoping, for some new doctrine, some huge prophesy or revelation. Of course they never came."

Yep, me too. Why did all the juicy stuff end with JS/BY?

"Then I wondered why I didn't enjoy any of my church meetings, but particularly Sunday School. I realised it was because we weren't actually *learning* anything. Everything was being dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. If you'd been in the church for 10+ years, you will have learned everything the Brethren want to to learn, many times over. But there was no place in the lesson manuals for the "deep doctrine"

Yep. Started getting bored to tears in Sacrament, Sunday School, and Schmelder's Quorum. After having our baby I realized attending was a completely futile and pointless use of my time.

I was a convert but quickly learned more than most lifetime members. The manuals were not enough (though the institute manuals are still a bit meaty). So I read church talks and quotes from the brethren on every conceivable subject like birth control, marriage, etc, to know the "right" decision for anything going on in my life.

Now, even the straight dope you would hear from Benson, et al, in the 60s-70s is swept under the rug. Considering the glory of god is intelligence, they have really GOT to come up with some content that is interesting to the more intelligent members. I guess "Repetition is the mother of learning" is the new mantra.