Given that lawmakers in both Utah and Arizona are mormon leaning (and generally make laws that have the blessing of the top leadership of the church), there are at least two ways in which the church in fact financially aids the FLDS:

1) They allow all wives and children subsiquent to the first wife and her children to collect welfare benefits without naming the father and the state feels no obligation to offset those monies by collecting from the childs father. In Oregon, if the welfare recipient childs father is known, the state sues the father for money paid out.

2) They allow non payment of taxes on homes that are not completely finished on the outside, but are finished on the inside and inhabited. This could be remidied tomorrow by changing the law.

I guarantee you that these problems are known to state officials of both states and are simply winked and nodded about.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2012 01:38PM by Devoted Exmo.

Instead of giving them the help they need, these poor victims are often forceably returned to their abusers.

Yep. I'm sure there are other ways in which the church aids. I wonder if their business are hired for some of the churches construction work in Southern Utah?

in the Western states.

They could do it cheaply because they didn't paid sub=standard wages and slept in sleeping bags wherever they went. My brother wanted them to sponge off me when they were in town but I only offered dinner and a bed to him for one night and nothing to the others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2012 02:12PM by Cheryl.

I am appauled, but somehow not surprised!!

Im pretty sure... here in Washington.... property taxes are DUE on the property at the time an assessment is made, NOT on whether/not it is 'completed'.
(IF WHAT YOU SAY IS ACCURATE) THAT'S INVITING A SHAM!

(Washington state) when you begin new construction here, you are required to give a cost estimate. I think that's 'Fact Checked' as to the sq. footage, quality, features, etc. Most new construction receives an on-site appraisal, and 'completed' or not Doesn't Matter! (best of my info).

First, the LDS Church has nothing to do with those welfare benefits. The policies under which the FLDS qualify for Medicaid and Food Stamps are nearly all handed down to the States from the Federal government, and State legislatures cannot legislate any other way.

Second, if you were to look at a Food Stamp or Medicaid case in Utah, you would find the father, 3 mothers, and 21 children all on the same case. There's no intent to hide or exclude individuals in order to hide their lifestyle. What we DO have, are federal regulations forbidding us in any way to share these cases with agencies other than our own agency...including the police.

Third, there are some Federal $$ that we are more free to use how we wish, and to my knowledge, no out-of-the-closet polygamist receives those dollars. The State Legislature and the agency officials in Utah who decide how those dollars are spent have written policies to exclude households with more than 2 parents from those benefits.

Fourth, they do pay property taxes on those homes in Hildale. They proudly bring their receipts to the welfare office every year so they can get more deductions for their Food Stamps. I can't speak for Arizona. I just know about Utah.

So, although I'm an ex-Mormon, I have to say Utah lawmakers do all they can to keep FLDS people off government benefits...but often, Federal policies, which were written for 1 and 2 parent families, get in the way.

Call your Congressman if you want that to change.

You sound pretty knowledgable and I'm really please to read what you've written here. I understand there are income (or lack of) requirements to qualify for food stamps, etc. I am in no way opposed to those being given to the needy -- even FLDS needy. So a few questions:

1) Are you saying that no additional wives or children are receiving food stamps unless the whole family qualifies as a unit? In other words, no wives subsequent to the first qualify as single parents with no income regardless of the husband?

2) Are you familiar with the "Bleed the Beast" philosophy? Have you heard it associated with the FLDS?

Usually a sister wife submits the application for food stamps. They know they are safe to report the ENTIRE household, so she'll place the names of the sister wives, the husband and all the children. When benefits are issued, all the income for everyone is included. Often there are 3 or 4 jobs because the sister wives work. So they are all included in the same food stamp household.

If a sister wife, who lives with the father, wants to apply for Food Stamps with only her husband and biological children, the application would be denied. This has to do with Federal guidelines regarding who should be included. Because the father is the bio-dad of all the children, the children of the other wives must also be included, as well as their mothers. So for food stamps an FLDS household is one big happy family.

It doesn't work that way with Medicaid, which has different Federal guidelines. Each family unit in the household, father, mother and bio children, has a separate case. So, for one polygamist household there will be one Food Stamp case, but there can be multiple Medical cases, and the income from the sister-wives does not count against the Medicaid of the other wives.

I used to work in these programs, and I actually spent time in Hildale as an auditor, counting children, checking out bank statements, collecting income information, etc...

As far as "bleeding the beast," I have no doubt it's taught out there, but they've never said anything about it to my face. The FLDS, at least to my face, have never been anything but kind and warm...but only when they were expecting my visits. If I showed up unannounced, it was like a scene from "Deliverance."

That goes without saying.

Very interesting. But it begs a few more questions. How do they account for their income? Do their business and jobs intertwine a lot, in other words, do polygamists set up businesses, work for each other and underreport their incomes to qualify?

An article a few years ago in the AZ Republic listed many ways that they 'bleed the beast' there. Sadly, the article is no longer online.

The FLDS is the local school district and the police dept. They collect money for the state to provide those services. Then they pull the kids out of school. They used school funds to buy a private jet for the FDLS leaders.

Same with police funding. They don't provide real services and pocket the money.

The investigation found about 4 million a year in lost AZ state money if I remember correctly.

I think it was "Escape" that detailed some shenanigans for getting free medical care for everyone even though her husband was making quite a bit of money.

The plyg colonies in Mexico, Canada, and Utah/Arizona would never have gotten started or survived in the first place if they had not been subsidized by LDSCorp..

...in October of 2010 I stopped in to Colorado City on my way to Phoenix. I was shopping in the general store there, and was in a long line of wives with covering over their heads and long skirts or dresses. I watched closely.....as far as I could tell, every one of them paid for groceries with some type of state of Arizona welfare check....it was amazing.