What would it take for you to go back the LDS church?
Honesty about Joseph Smith and polygamy, multiple accounts of his visions, glass looking, The Book of Abraham, blood atonement, Brigham Young's racism?
If they disclosed their financial status?
If they admitted that Native Americans ancestors could not have been Hebrew as shown by DNA evidence?
They could admit everything or they could absolutely prove everything they've ever said is 110% true, and I still wouldn't go back. Elohim, Jesus and Joseph Smith could appear to me, accompanied by an army of angels with flaming swords, and I would tell them to go f#ck themselves, because they're total @ssholes.
They would have to admit it was a total fraud, give me a complete refund on all my tithing I paid over the years, then told me the law of chastity is done away with, and that the temple square sisters want to do weird freaky things to me.
Considering the overwhelming evidence which I carefully studied for two years before having the willpower to leave, and considering the books I have which were published by the church, and considering that I fasted and prayed many times that I would find the true answers and those true answers pointed away (despite my desperate hope otherwise), I guess the only thing that could make me believe the way I did 6 years ago would require a complete erasing of my mind.
Seriously. You cannot unlearn a thing you have proven true, and you cannot be expected to regain a testimony of a thing that is proven untrue. Especially when you do it by using ONLY church materials.
What would it take to force me to go to church and pretend to believe? Nothing short of a court order. After all, my wife and kids are out, and my parents and brothers and sisters have dismissed us and we've been formally shunned by the church, so what other possible influence could make me go back?
However, if the leadership showed some sort of forward thinking leadership and actually said something that was of value to people, and started teaching Christ before Temple and acted as if they worshipped God more than Priesthood, and openly admitted that they were wrong in many of their actions and teachings that have consistently caused the ire of outsiders ands the loss of members, and if they adopted a sound and non-contradictory belief system only then might they be worth a second look.
Still though, given their track record it would take years to see if such action were merely a PR move or if it was real.
A real membership, meaning one of the top 15 spots. Every other place in the church is just a specific level in one of those 15 real members' downlines.
What would I do with that position? The possibilities are endless..
On top of being pattenly false, TSCC is a septic tank of social control and holier than thou types. The church is rotten on EVERY level and can never be fixed. Plus, who wants to waste their time if it's obviously just a very stupid social club?
once a week with coffee and casual friends meeting and discussing doing some volunteer work somewhere, I would consider going back. Any mention of Mormonism though would make me leave.
Would admission of polygamy make the church true? Would financial disclosure make the church true? Would complete openness of the history of the cult make it true?
I say no. I know it's not true. I know it started as a scam and it's still a scam.
If god appeared to me and told me it was true, I'd check myself into a facility.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2012 11:57AM by lillium.
eliminated the manipulation and controlling aspects of the church, encouraged respect for ALL people, fostered personal growth and genuine relationships, had meaningful or interesting events/activities, and only asked for enough tithing to support what they give to charity or back to the membership in services and value (and full accounting for where the money goes). And how about democratic leadership?
When I was having so many questions and I was jumping through the hoops and really trying to believe one of the Seventies said, "Well Helen you can lean on my testimony." What shocked me next was when he said, "Not everyone gets a testimony so then they can lean on the testimonies of those who have one. Helen use my testimony." I said, "Thanks, but I don't want someone else's testimony; if I can't have my own then I don't want one."
It took another 9 years before I left.
I really wanted to believe and I'd pray,"Please let me know the Church and the Gospel are true? Heavenly Father are you really there? Please, I have to know." NOTHING! Absolutely NOTHING!
Not until I left did I begin to realize that the NOTHING was probably the answer because it was me that knew what I needed for me and a God had no part in my coming to the realization the church isn't true and there is no God.
It was so freeing once I knew I didn't have to know if the church was true or not. I didn't need to find a God, a religion, a church.
Breathing in, breathing out, one present moment after another.
But I don't think we could really have recognized it as blessed silence back then for the pat Mormon answer to one's prayers not being answered was to tell us to pray more, listen with real intent, and a sincere heart.
Nope. I still wouldn't believe in it and I still would feel I'm wasting valuable time sitting in that church.
If they were more honest and flexible in their beliefs/history while I was still active I may have stayed (for social reasons), but at this point its too late.
However, if they wanted to come forward, admit everything, apologize, return all the money, open their archives to scholars, and become some sort of secular organization that does good in the world, I would be happy for them. I still would never go back though, out of principle. Even then, they have so much social inertia to be evil that I don't think they could ever change. What could they become? They haven't got a single good thing within them. They would just implode, because they are nothing but a fraud. The Mormon church is an organization that does nothing but tie your hands so that you are unable to enjoy anything else in life.
There's a whole world out there beyond the borders of Utah. Without the Mormon church, Utah would become just another state like Montana, Wyoming or New Mexico. The Mormon church and its people are way too narcissistic to accept anything less than godhood. No, I already did Mormonism. I hope they do come clean, but I have other things to do.
> The Mormon church is an organization that does > nothing but tie your hands so that you are unable > to enjoy anything else in life.
> No, I already did Mormonism. I hope they do come > clean, but I have other things to do.
Would I go back to the Mormon church? It's like asking if I'd like to step inside an isolation cell in a high-security jail and stay there indefinitely. Whyever would I want to do that? No, not ever (shudder).
Mormons dabble in their "special" beliefs, "authorities", and so-called history, while life is happening outside their tight small circles.
1. Be completely truthful. 2. Admit they are NOT the one and only true church. 3. Use tithing to help the unemployed and those struggling in these tough times. 4. Stress the teaching of Christ exclusively. 5. Promote those activities that build friendships and comradarie. 6. Stop promoting the rich business types. Become a church led by humble people.
Often the question "Would you go back", is used in context to returning to a dysfunctional relationship.
So in that context:
Would you go back to someone if you realized they had lied to you for years about their past? That they had hidden unpleasant aspects of their past to make themselves more appealing to you?
Would you go back to someone if they had convinced you that you were bad, faulty, or needing of their help to make yourself "worthy" again?
Would you go back to someone who tried to meddle in your life decisions, such as when to marry or have children, co-opted your time (callings), and tried to tell you how to think and feel about virtually EVERYTHING?
Would you go back to someone if they required you to give them money, but wouldn't tell you what they did with it? Or if they misrepresented that it went to help other people, and then you found out they used it to invest in property and businesses?
Would you go back to someone who required you to report to them about your underwear, your thoughts, your beliefs, the food you ate?
What if that person tried to tell you who you could associate with or what you could read?
What if that person sent people to check on you periodically?
Isn't it apparent that an individual that fits the description above would be a classic controller/abuser? And that the church fits that description as well?
Why would a person CHOOSE to go back, even if that person claimed to have CHANGED?
Once you realize you are in an abusive relationship, it's better to cut your losses and move on. Because abusers RARELY change.
Interesting. I had just that question this past week. A good friend who I hadn't seen in a year came to visit. She told me of her and her DH's experiences in the temple. Their son had died a slow, painful death and they were questioning the church. They had to have an answer from God about it and were rewarded by visions (in the temple) of their son in the afterlife. They, and their teenage and young adult surviving kids, have also felt his presence.
I respect my friend and think she is incredibly wise - she has gone through alot- and did not want to negate her experience. She felt what she did; I wasn't there, and I couldn't say it did or didn't happen.
Does that make the church true? No.
She could have imagined those experiences - the mind is powerful. Could there be an afterlife? Absolutely. Are those types of experiences had only in the temple? No. I'm sure other people outside of mormonism and the temple have had similar experiences.
Does her experience negate what I know to be true about the BoA, kinderhook plates, BoM, DNA, anachronisms, lack of evidence or contradictory evidence, JS & polyandry and coercion of teenage girls, JS using church for temporal gain?
O/T but are the kinderhook plates the "Brass Plates"? I remember learning about the golden plates & being taught about brass ones, too. I'm confused...