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Posted by: forestpal ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 01:48AM

My daughter her RM husband, and my grandchildren are moving into my house this week, to live for a year or two, while he opens a new branch of his business, and buy a house in the neighborhood. This is a joyous occasion for me! However, as always, Mormonism rears its ugly head to spoil our happiness. My daughter is an active Mormon who is an Atheist, and my son-in-law is a TBM who doesn't particularly like church. His family, who live in the same stake, are fanatical, controlling, hysterical, screaming-mother Mormons.

We all live in a very nice neighborhood in SLC, and my grandchildren will go to the same good schools that my children and SIL went to. The problem is, that they will go to my former ward. This is the ward that abused my other children, and harassed us when we became inactive, about 10 years ago. The bishop and priesthood leaders threatened me that I would get sick, fail financially, and that my children would fail in life, if we left. We always did well, and we are even more happy and successful since leaving the cult. I still live a moral, honest life, and don't drink coffee or alcohol because I'm allergic to it. My life actually exceeds Mormon standards, except I'm divorced, am not blonde and blue-eyed, and I work. My career is of value to others, and I do real charity work through my Lutheran church. This particular daughter went back to the cult to marry her RM.

My RM son-in-law and his fanatic family do not know that I have left the cult. I'm afraid that my son-in-law will shun me, and might forbid my grandchildren to be with me. This has happened to a couple of friends of mine.

1. Do I go back to the Mormon church with my grandchildren, and shut up about my beliefs? My daughter thinks she's returning to her old friendly neighborhood, but in reality everyone is shunning me big-time. My daughter's husband commented on how all the neighbors' sidewalks were cleared of snow, but that it ended abruptly on both sides of my house. If I go to church with them, the shunning will cease, and turn into love bombing, and the neighborhood children will be allowed to play with my grandchildren. (They are strangers to them now, because the neighbors think my daughter and SIL are not Mormons.) My grandchildren will move in and discover that I am that unknown lady in the big house, that no one likes. All these problems would be solved if I go back to church and phony it up., and pay tithing to buy popularity for us.

2--Do I stealthily avoid church every Sunday with an excuse like a headache, or my alarm not going off, or having to work at the office a few hours, etc., and keep quiet about my beliefs? If I don't go to church, or if I go to my own Lutheran church, then the Primary teachers, the other grandparents, and other Mormons will tell my grandchildren that I am a bad person and won't be with them in Heaven and all that other Mormon trash-talk about apostates.

3--Do I risk my relationships, and tell the truth? I could simply state the fact that Joseph Smith lied, or something like that (I would need your input here) and let arguments about religion remain off-limits in our household? I would neither encourage or discourage them in their own church attendance, prayers, FHE, Home Teachers, etc, This way, I could continue to live an authentic life, openly attend my Lutheran church, or not, when I feel like it, worship Christ in my heart, and practice unconditional love with my beloved grandchildren. But--there's that risk....

Perhaps it is a dream of mine, to make Sundays so pleasant around our household, that the grandchildren will see that love and family exist outside the Mormon meetings. We could break the Sabbath and go sledding or skiing. I could be there to rationally answer their questions.

Still--my religious principles are NOT worth the risk of losing my grandchildren! As you can guess, the Mormon cult has bullied me and ruined my life in the past, and I know the damage it can do.

I would very much appreciate your input and suggestions!

>^..^<



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 01:51AM by forestpal.

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Posted by: forbiddencokedrinker ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 01:55AM

First of all, get a good mini-fridge for your room, and put a lock on it. This is where you keep your beer and wine, so it doesn't all accidentally end up down the sink. Also keep liquor locked up in a liquor cabinet, when not in use, for the same reason.

Establish immediately that it is your home, and that you will continue to behave the way you do, and they can deal with it. Point out that you are already making a major sacrifice by wearing clothes inside your home, while they are staying with you.

Keep in mind that TBMs are known to steel your books, and any old garmies you might have lying around, in order to protect you from yourself. Make sure you secure these, though you might want to leave a few choice samples out in case someone is willing to have their mind open.

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Posted by: Heresy ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 02:05AM

cooperation and support will set the tone for everyone else. You need her to insist that everyone treats you and your beliefs with respect.

You might tell her ahead of time that you expect her to warn the children that you are not active, and step in immediately if they challenge you. You and she might even have some non verbal signal that reminds her that you need her help NOW.

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Posted by: honestone ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 02:49AM

TEll your daughter the status of your belief and if her hubby can live with you and not be nasty. Will his family hate the fact he is in your home? IF so they should not come. I think this is more of THEIR problem than your problem. The home is being opened for them and they can take it or leave it.Every one they interact with MUST treat you well if they come into your home. Tell your daughter you expect HER to be firm with all of that. And religion will not be part of any discussion with those visitors.

Never would I go to a church to put on a show of belief when I had none. Like heresy's idea of a signal to remind your daughter that her help is needed and she should step in to smooth things out. They must tell your grandchildren that you will not be attending their church and it is something they need not ask you about. It's personal. Good luck. Had my convert daughter here for 9 months in '08 and all went well. She had no kids then so that part was easy.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 03:23AM

I would think your daughter must know to a great extent how you feel about her church. There's no need to explain or give reasons for not going to church.

It's your home and they need to follow your rules and expectations. Of course you'll be accomodating and flexible but you'll need to stand firm about needing some privacy and respect. Better to set the tone early and stick with it. It's more difficult to add rules once routines are established.

Lucky in a way you don't drink coffee or alcohol. That's always such a problem to TBMs. But if the kids assume you avoid these things because they're evil, I'd tell them what you actually think and shrug off or laugh a little that an organization thinks such objects can have so much superstition attached.

I would establish a routine for smiling and leaving the room during official mormon visiting teacher and home teacher lessons. Have special computer games, projects, or books in another part of the house to enjoy to keep busy and as a reward for keeping your boundaries mended.

In your situation I'd be happy to talk to them about callings, talks they're giving, mormon social chit-chat. I would not discuss much about doctrine. There's no need to talk endlessly about why you don't participate or why they do. Tell them about the families in your church where family members attend different churches without problems. Let them know this mutual respect is the norm in most households.

You need to refuse to become a missionary project in your own home.

You'll need to think about blessing the food if you all eat together. Perhaps an oral prayer at dinner only? Or you could take turns giving your prefered blessing half of the time? Or maybe your beliefs would be similar to theirs about food blessings. If they have family prayers, it's up to you if you want to participate and they want to have you.

When practices are different, say, "That's how Grandma does it. People can be different." Or "We don't have to always be alike to love alike.

Good luck. I hope it goes well for you.

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Posted by: Flare ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 04:47AM

OK, so I'm on the other end of your situation. So maybe my thoughts can help you but maybe not.

We might be in the situation to live with my in-laws for a time. They are uber-TBM, have the entire extended family in the same town, but we love them incredibly. We have multiple little kids. We left the church a few years ago and have not looked back.

Our kids, though young still, know exactly why we left and know of many of the strange beliefs and untrue history of the church. They also know how much we love their grandparents and we've practiced how to be respectful, and not bring up doctrinal differences. We actually practiced actual phrases to ues if doctrine comes up in order to politely and respectfull end the conversation!!!

We currently attend a Christian church and believe in the Bible, but we've been VERY tempered in our "zeal" if you understand what I mean.

So what to do about prayers over mealtime? Fine with us.
Visiting/home teaching visits? Fine with us as long as it is from the BIBLE only. If JS or other nonsense is mentioned, our kids and we will be excused from the room.

TSSC Church? Ok, here's the hard thing. So what we've decided to do is to go with all the kids to sacrament meeting only as a family. We will do this to teach our kids how to respect their grandparents. After SM we will leave and go for brunch where we (just our family) will intentionally deprogram the kids if any **&(&((^& got added. Then we'll go to some wonderful non-denom Christian church for a fun service on Wed nights.

Tithing/callings/guilt-laden love-bombing? No way will we do it. But we plan to smile, be respectful and loving to any and all of our family's friends. They can then see how wonderful evil apostates actually are.

TSSC Service Projects? Sure, we'll help out with any and all Scout Eagle projects, homeless food drives or anything else. We will NOT have our children be janitors for a multi-billion dollar corporation though.

So that's what we've decided to do. We plan on informing the grandparents of this plan up front so there's no question. We are going to ask them to refrain from ANY instruction of the kids that is NOT from the Bible. They are free to teach them as many Bible stories as they want to.

I sure hope this helps. Good luck.

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Posted by: Laban's Head forgot her password ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:02AM

You and your DH and children will politely leave the room if the VT/HT stray from the Bible, but you'll all sit through 90 minutes of sacrament meeting which you know will be full of mormon stuff!? I don't understand the logic there.

As for the rest, is sounds like you are doing a good job of preparing your children for what they are about to encounter.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 11:26AM

There is nothing about attending someone's church which stipulates respect for them. Respected people means repecting their goodness, their feelings, their kindnesses, their choices. It isn't respect to weekly Sit for hours in their church planning how to counter the messages.

People have a right to be mormons or whatever religion they choose. It's nice to respect that right. Regularly Sitting in a pew and faking interest isn't showing respect for the others attending. It might actually be more a show of disrespect.

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Posted by: Carol Y. ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 04:53AM

This experience may provide some really powerful teaching moments to that family, if you play it cool, and go kind of easy. Educate them a little at a time. Having separate phones may be helpful, too, so you won't have to take Morg calls, from the ward, or the inlaws. You may even want to discuss your rules on visiting hours from members doing their 'duty.' Afterall, it IS your home. My suggestion is no visitors after 9:00 P.M. You have a right to your living room for a while before bedtime, to sit in your robe, have a cup of tea, read, or whatever. You shouldn't have to exit to another room, just because some idiots knock at the door at 9:30 P.M.

The idea on a personal fridge was a good one. Have one large enough for all the food and snacks that you want separate, away from the mid-night snackers.

I give you a lot of credit. I'm sure you'll keep us posted on the family circus.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 05:43AM

Oh my goodness, my friend. This is a discussion that you should have had with your daughter and SIL when the topic of them moving in with you first came up.

First of all, don't change yourself or your lifestyle. Have a meeting (preferably face-to-face) with both of them, and tell them that you no longer attend the Mormon church, but now attend the Lutheran church. Tell them about the mistreatment from the ward and how the neighbors shun you.

If either one of them has a problem with that, or can't treat you right, they can make other arrangements. You are family; you are not a hotel. Tell them that you won't openly contradict the church in front of your grandchildren, but neither will you hide the fact that you attend a different church.

Oh, and one more thing -- tell them that no HT/VT, bishop, etc. from the church are allowed in your home. Ever. And they have to give the church their cell phone numbers as a contact. Again, your daughter and SIL can like it or not like it, but that's how it's going to be.

Never forget that you are doing them both a tremendous favor. They need to blend in with you and your household's lifestyle, not the other way around. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 05:44AM by summer.

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Posted by: scooter ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:58AM

I find the advice of Summer and Anagrammy to be consistently the ones I agree with.

this is no exception. So take Summer's advice as mine as well.

along with a gentle slap on the wrist.

You are such an accomplished person, and should be proud of such. And that includes your castle.

Your castle. Your rules.

Now get out there and rock it, grrrl!

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Posted by: dk ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 06:02AM

forestpal, it is your home, set the ground rules. You mentioned you go to a Lutheran church. Tell them you like the new church you associate with and ask them to respect your church and you will respect theirs. If they try and turn your grandchildren against you, tell them it's true how the lds church tears families apart and doesn't respect the beliefs of others. And, no wonder people online don't always think very highly of the church.

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Posted by: forestpal ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 06:34AM

Thank you! You people have some great ideas, and I really appreciate your help. I really was at a loss. I tend to be too submissive and not assertive enough. I have PTSD, and more male intruders at 9:30, in groups, just like before, would probably trigger an anxiety attack. Why do they always come over after 9:00 at night?

I'm easy going, and they can have friends over whenever they want, but I have a right to ban anyone UNINVITED at the door. Uninvited drop-ins and strangers are not allowed inside the house at any time. This is a good rule for the safety of children, too.

We all have our separate cell phones, and I will forbid them to give out my home phone number.

It will be tough to once again witness the Mormons invading my family's life, taking the children away from home on school nights, sucking up all their time on Saturday as well as Sunday, keeping their father away, forcing my daughter to do things she does not want to do, and making her drag her children along with her to places she does not want to go. She is even more submissive than I am. I appreciate having RFM for me to vent!

I resent the cult for ruining my family! This could be such a lovely time for all of us. Reading your responses has made me realize that unless I set rules and boundaries, that I will once again be letting all that TSCC idiocy invade my peaceful home.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 06:37AM by forestpal.

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Posted by: Stray Mutt ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 08:18AM

You are the one doing them a favor. They are the ones depending on your largess. They are the guests. You know the old saying "My house, my rules?" If your son-in-law or even your daughter don't want to cooperate with you, there are these things called apartments and rental houses.

Sure, you're excited to have your daughter and grandchildren around, but don't let them exploit you because of it.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 08:24AM

The only thing that I can say is that you can't live your life in such a way as to please other people. One can only live a charade for so long, before it becomes exhausting, and then we end up reverting back to who we really are in the first place.

I believe that honesty up front is the best policy and that the only way to feel true peace inside is to live a genuine life, being true to yourself.

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Posted by: rowan ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 08:55AM

I have tried to wrap my head around your Topic, but (to me) it does not seem logical.

Daughter= An active Mormon who is Atheist
SIL= A TBM who doesn't like church
SIL's family lives in same Stake and are fanatical,controlling, hysterical, screaming-mother Mormons
You live in SLC
Your past Mormon associations are not friendly now
Mormon neighbor's sidewalks are cleared of snow, but not yours (??) Does the LDS Church clear the sidewalks in SLC?
You are Lutheran
Your SIL and his family do not know you have left the Church even though SIL's family are in the same Stake and neighborhood (??)
You daughter and SIL will attend your old ward
You use the terms "We always did well, and we are even more happy and successful since leaving the cult." BUT you are divorced (??) Who is the "we"?

Your daughter went back to the cult to marry her RM (therefore she seems to have left the Church when you did, so she knows that you are out of the Church...(??)

You ask if you should use "alarm not going off as an excuse for not going to Mormon church...If they are living in house with you how would that ever work(??)

If daughter knows, his family knows and the neighbors know--how can SIL not know (??)

Don't you have children at home, the son who you and he threw the old padded chair into the church dumpster, and where are the little kids that you have spoken of (was that a reference to the past and they are now grown?)

You seem to be in a tizzy--take a deep breath and calm down. Getting upset will only cause a flare-up of your IC.

Is this daughter not one of the--to quote you "my inactive children led me out of the cult"?

Please, for your sake, reread your Topic. Does it make sence to you? I am not trying to be critical, just analytical so that I can understand your situation.

Maybe the recent deaths of both of your brothers due to cancer has left you with emotional baggage that you have not had the time to resolve and this has made you unable to give calm and logical thought to your upcoming living situation.

Since you recently lost "both of my brothers" to cancer, then one of them had to have been the sociopath brother (that your family enabled) that made your childhood so miserable. If I remember correctly, you have stated that you have PTSD (am I correct here?).

The death of a victimizer will often develope conflicting emotions in the victim. You have stated before that you believe in getting professional help...for your sake, if you are not already doing so, then you should be.

It is good that you are trying to "verbalize" here on RfM. That means that you should be able to have productive sessions with a professional.

As for your upcoming living situation...unless you have a really big empty house, this will be hard with even the most obliging of people. I do hope that their posessions and household items are going into storage somewhere and not into your garage or home storage!

As guests in your home, you daugher, SIL and grandchildren should treat you with respect and graditude. They also need to pay for any extra expense that your household will incur due to their stay. Not rent, as renters have certain expectations you may or may not be comfortable with.

Increased utility bills, ie: every flush of the toilet means an increase in
1.the electric bill (nobody flushes in the dark)
2.Extra toilet paper.
3.Extra soap to wash their hands afterwards.
3.Extra groceries (they had to eat/drink it before they had to flush it.
4.The water bill goes up
5.The sewer bill goes up.

..and that's just talking about flushing the toilet. What about extra laundry costs? Will they be responsible if they or their children or their visitors cause some damage or breakage to your home or posessions. What about the quiet time that you need to feel comfortable? How will you as an introvert feel in your home if you don't have your quiet time?

--and they should clean up after themselves in a way that is in keeping with your home's standards?

They must have financial means if he owns a business and is opening a new branch. The year or two that you refer to as them living with you while they look for a house to buy in the neighborhood is out of proportion time-wise to accomplish finding a new home. Perhaps they need to look into renting before buying.

I know many grandparents who "do for their children" so that they will not be denied access to the grandchildren. I personally find such family manipulations unacceptable behavior and indicative of deeper pathological problems that I would not want brought into my life.

Whatever your decision(s), be sure that your well-being and happiness is your number one concern. Those who love you will want the same for you, and those that do not should not have any vote in the matter of your life and how you choose to live it.

........Old woman cautiously steps down from soapbox and slowly limps away...........



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 09:04AM by rowan.

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Posted by: informer ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 09:00AM

You aready know which option you **should** choose.

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Posted by: Itzpapalotl ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:25AM

+1

It's your home, your rules. Your situation with the cult treating your family the first round was so horrible and traumatizing, I imagine you might have some horrible flashbacks stepping into that chapel.

You want to live an authentically, not a double life. It can really take a toll on your mental/spiritual/emotional health and come out in all sorts of unhealthy ways.

Remember, they are coming to live with YOU and they can learn to deal with YOUR decisions about leaving. If they don't like it or start causing problems in YOUR house, they can find somewhere else to live. I don't think this is too harsh, because it's not like you're forbidding your daughter and her family from attending or believing in TSCC; You're protecting yourself and your freedom, which you have every right to do!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 10:27AM by Itzpapalotl.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 09:06AM

Since you will have others in your house, it is their time to respect your ground, not vice versa. And since you seem to be asking some of our advice, here's mine:

- No, don't go back to church unless you feel you want to or feel you need to do the family support thing for a special event, like for a baptism.

- Don't "avoid" church, just don't go. It would be quite hypocritical of you to go if you have left the church, which leads to the next point:

- They should have found out hereafter that you have left the church. Now is an opportune time to tell them, with the caveat that they need to respect your boundary.

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Posted by: lostinutah ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:15AM

What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive -Shakespeare

Be totally honest. It's your life and house and you get to live like you want. You have more risk of losing the grandkids forever if they realize grandmom's a liar than over religion, and the lying will just give the TBM husband ammo for how not being a Mo makes one dishonest.

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Posted by: nickerickson ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:20AM

Be honest and it is your house and your rules. You definitely don't have to explain your choices and beliefs to your children and grandchildren. Be up front with your daughter and her husband, tell them they can go to church if they feel they need to but the church is not allowed to come home with them. Why go back through all the emotional turmoil a second time.

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Posted by: kestrafinn (not logged in) ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:25AM

You live honestly and how you want. It's YOUR house and YOUR life.

Be a good example to your grandchildren and live truthfully, with dignity and honesty.

Go to church only when you want to when the grandkids are doing something special and you wish to support them.

Set boundaries with your family/new housemates. It's YOUR house, and you are doing them a favor by accommodating them while they get resettled.

Explain to them that you are happy and actively involved in your faith and church, and they are welcome to do the same - but that there needs to be an understanding and respect that neither side will be converting the other. Be specific with regards to love-bombing, sharing your phone number with their church, inviting home teachers or similar, etc. Explain that the first time that happens, you will expect them to find other housing arrangements.

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Posted by: WiserWomanNow ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:43AM

If they come to live with you, do not fake an interest in the church, forestpal! It would make you ill and miserable to deny who you truly are.

You have been able to avoid proclaiming your non-Mormon proclivities to in-laws & some others up till now, but it will not be possible to be hide your beliefs if DD & family come to live with you… as you realize in your heart-of-hearts.

You must SET YOUR BOUNDARIES FIRMLY AND CLEARLY before they ever begin making arrangements to move!

Consider saying to the relevant people (DD & SIL for sure, and others as you see fit):

“I need to let you know up front that I no longer believe in or support the Mormon church. Unless you, your children, (and to SIL: “and your family,”) can COMMIT to respecting that in EVERY way, it is not going to work for us to live together. Also, I would expect your Mormon guests to show the same unqualified respect to me when they visit.”

DO NOT DEFEND your current, i.e. non-Mormon, beliefs! YOU are the one who has seen through the façade, forestpal. THEY are the ones still blind to the cult! Furthermore, do NOT attempt to persuade them of your high values despite being an exmo. DEFENSE implies uncertainty about that which one is defending!

I would suggest the following or your version of it:

“I have discovered that the church has not been honest with its members regarding its history, its doctrine, and its practices. Nevertheless, just as I insist upon your 100% respect toward my beliefs, I also am willing to respect your beliefs and will not share with you what I have discovered. [Optional addition]: The information is available to anyone who seeks it.”

And if they do move in with you, let THEM take the initiative regarding any questions they may have about the information you have discovered.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 12:06PM by WiserWomanNow.

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Posted by: Glo ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:46AM

They should have rented a home for a year instead of putting you through such an inconvenience.

This arrangement probably won't work out and they will eventually leave in a huff. So what have you gained.

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Posted by: CL2 ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 10:48AM

Just remember THIS IS YOUR HOUSE and you are doing THEM A FAVOR.

I've had several people live with me and it is difficult--to say the least. Just expect there will be problems, because even in the best of circumstances, there are ALWAYS PROBLEMS.

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Posted by: paintinginthewin ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 11:12AM

I especially liked the advice, particularly two poster's. I liked what Summer explained. I have met multigenerational groups living together and when visitors came from the others' crowds, they (the adults who were not receiving them) cleared the living room. This was easier in homes with separate family and living rooms and closing doors. You literally would not see uninvolved family members.
However this strategy would literally imprison you out of your own living room or family room, and unless there's a separate hallway entrance, you would loose access to your own kitchen, possibly your piano.
I liked what Summer had to say. I especially like the idea that somebody needs to fill in your daughter that it Isn't like the old days, and you aren't participating in the mormon community to the same degree you used to be. You cannot be their free hotel, a concierge that bends and plans their social desires using your living room, kitchen, making the entire front of your house their hotel lobby and hotel restaurant entertaining their friends and their visitors and none of your own. I liked what Rowan said about ways to handle this and getting a close local representative, your advocate to coach you in communication strategies and promote your interests in advocating for you helping your see this or other things through. Do you need assistance identifying such an advocate or communication skill coach or counselor in SLC? This board is a wealth of knowledge and may help with good references.

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Posted by: paintinginthewin ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 11:32AM

now enough of them have moved and they get together weekends, travel together, and generally go out and visit their friends. But when they were younger, entire crowds would indeed gather in the living room of my home when they were home for break etc. and I then felt it was my role support them, in their gathering with their friends (even if it entirely left me separate from or walking through my kitchen) or even leaving, when their horror movies (which one enjoyed particularly) were too stressful for me. I could not stay and hear it. but since the visit was temporary and my daughter was just passing through I counted it some sort of undiferented or unconditional loving strategy to give up the use of my home & all I had entirely when she stayed the week or weekend with me. She was only 23.
since then (my daughters are much older now) a sense of courtesy and consideration has entered them. My daughters want to see me, to visit me when they do me the courtesy of visiting and I open my home courteously for them to visit me. They want time in my company, and the select movies that we all would enjoy viewing together without making it so stressful I want to leave. This change occured first when I was visiting them, I noticed it when one was looking at a netflicks list and saying, Mom you wouldn't like this, and turning to the other, do you think she would like this instead? And they began courteusly selecting things they thought would be entertaining in our limited time together- which we all created with somebody driving hundreds of miles to even be in the same room.

I would like you to have someone help you set boundaries and communication skill advocacy, so you can find your own family does also treat you with courtesy continuously. Best to you- R

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Posted by: Mia ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 11:33AM

Living mormon didn't work for you last time. It certainly won't work for you this time.

If your daughter is atheist,and her hubby hates church they will probably be a little jealous of your religious freedom, even if they don't say so.

You being honest about it all, and living your life authentically may cause them to think twice about what they are doing as far as religion goes.

I think you've been given some great advice. Do whatever you need to do to maintain peace inside your head. This won't be easy.

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Posted by: BadGirl ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 01:07PM


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Posted by: NeverMo in CA ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 01:19PM

A lot of wonderful advice here...one other thing you may want to do is agree with your daughter and SIL up-front that if things don't work out, for whatever reason, then they are free to move into their own place with no hard feelings (and that you are *also* free to ask them to leave, with no hard feelings, if it should come to that). Maybe also suggest a weekly or monthly "family check-in" for the first two or three months to air any issues or problems and get them out in the open, too, so that things don't fester.

It's difficult enough in my experience for adults to move in with their parents, even when they get along very well, and even in the absence of all the religious and other problems you've outlined.

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Posted by: nonmoparents ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 01:24PM

Forestpal, here is my two cents worth . . . you have obviously found a certain amount of peace in your life now after leaving and removing yourself from TSCC. Helping your adult children is something that you will do on YOUR terms. Be careful to not let the drama of the Mormon culture creep back into your life! Life is too short and you have come too far to slide back into these disfunctional patterns. You will give more to your family by remaining strong and staying completely out of the affects of Mormonism.

If I were you, I would offer to let your daughter and SIL stay for a couple of weeks (max) to help them get on their feet and get their lives together and then move on. I would not allow them to stay for an extended period . . . you will risk losing yourself (as you have already indicated) to the trapings of all of the Mormon BS - is any of that worth it? You love your daughter and SIL and grandkids, but it doesn't mean that you must love them to your own detriment.

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Posted by: Outcast ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 01:33PM

Long thread, I haven't read all the responses so I apologize if this was already brought up.

I think you need to tell them you are inactive before they move in. They may decide it's not for them. Hard to believe, but I can see it happening.

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Posted by: pkdfan2 ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 02:01PM


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Posted by: imaworkinonit ( )
Date: February 01, 2012 02:18PM

You should tell them your experience with the church/ward before they move in. Be clear that you will not being going to church.

Keep in mind that what you went through with the ward was ABUSE. Do not invite the abuser back into your home.

Pay attention to the way you feel inside. When something feels rotten (or even just odd), think about what happened and figure out why it bothered you. I talk a lot with someone recovering from abuse, and she cannot easily recognize boundary violations. She asks me a lot, "is this NORMAL?" and recounts interactions (usually extremely odd ones) with people she knows. And the answer is always "If you have to ask, the answer is probably NO".

If you were conditioned to accept boundary violations in the past, it's far to easy to overlook them in the present. So I think you are putting yourself in a very vulnerable situation. However, if you stay on the alert for those violations, and learn to correct them on the spot, with clarity and dignity, I think it could be a step toward greater personal strength---practicing assertiveness on a regular basis.

I hope it works out well for you.

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