So my son goes to a Catholic private school and he is in 2nd grade. I pay extra tuition because he isn't Catholic. ( public schools around here are a disgrace.)

He kind considers himself agnostic, and is very vocal when asked about his opinion of biblical stories and such. I have been working with him to respect religions and to look for the morals of stories, and to pick out good ideas.

Anyway, every year the school asks the students to write a statement on "How the Catholic school benefits me."

My MIL asked him what he wrote (knowing he probably said something she wouldn't like, being a devout Catholic herself).

He said "I wrote that I don't care about the religion parts of school, but I love the other subjects."

She complained to my wife that he might get kicked out if he keeps answering questions like this, and that perhaps we should pull him out of the school.

I stand behind his statement. His answer wasn't an attack. He was asked his opinion (from a ridiculous question to pose to a second grader in my opinion) and answered honestly. His higher tuition should at least buy him the right to be honest when asked. If they try to kick him out, I'll sue. And I'm not pulling him out.

I'm proud that he has the courage to question things that are taught to him that don't make sense.

He is barraged by their beliefs every day, and he goes along to get along, looking past it, until he is asked his opinion. He gives correct answers in religion class because he studies and learns what Catholics believe, but he doesn't believe. He takes an objective stance.

Anyway, it caused some grief at home but I'm proud of him.

You MIL MIGHT have a point-depending on the school's reaction. IF his comments are causing problems and IF you want him to stay in this school, you mikght talk to him about discretion. I didn't think his comment was anything out of line, but if he is continually saying such things it is possible the school could have a problem with him. I might discuss it with him and with the teacher and see if it is an issue. That is particularly important if you like the school and don't have anywhere else to send him that meets your standards. I'm not saying there is a problem, but if I were you, I'd probably look into it.

... the student is not there to learn, the student is there to conform?

Might want to work on those priorities, bona dea.

Timothy

Didn't say that, but private schools don't have to take anyone if they don't want to unlike public schools. I have worked in both and some private schools will kick kids out for non conformity and there isn't much you can do about it. If you want to go a private school, you obey their rules and you need to be careful. I also said later after Dad clarified that I don't think Little Mystic was out of line..Instead of following me around with your crap, you might want to learn how to read.You really are an obnoxious bore

It's a "Catholic" school. It exists to provide a "Catholic education". If a parent doesn't want a child exposed to a "Catholic education" it's best not to send a child to a "Catholic school"

Many non Catholics send their kids to Catholic school for the superior education they often provide.I wouldn't personally have a problem with doing so providing my child wasn't pressured into joining or persecuted in some way. However, if you really don't want your child to have religion as part of the curriculum, there are secular private schools which might be a better fit. There are also good public schools.The point is that if you want to send your child to a private school, you had better be prepared to obey their rules because they can pretty much take or reject students as they see fit.In public schools, a child has to be really do something bad to be expelled, but private schools do not have those restrictions.

I don't mind him being exposed to catholic beliefs. My undergrad degree is in philosophy and religious studies. The more he is exposed to, the better.

He just doesn't mind expressing his opinion when asked.

I know that.After reading the whole thing, I understand your views. I was answering flyboy's question. It seemed a little obvious. If a person isn't willing to have their kids exposed to Catholic beliefs, then Catholic school probably isn't the place for them. I'm with you. I'm more concerned with the quality of education. I have been in some public schools that are so bad that I wouldn't send my kids there under any circumstances.They are overcrowded, violent and kids are out of control. Others are great. Same thing for private schools. I worked in one where kids are indoctrinated with right wing political beliefs ,excessively pressured to perform and where there are absolutely no frills from field trips to art, music and foreign language.Not only that, it is extremely expensive. I wouldn't send my kids there either. I also think exposing kids to other beliefs can be a good thing so long as there isn't a lot of pressure.I wouldn't have a problem sending my child to most schools run by Catholics or liberal protestants

flyboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a "Catholic" school. It exists to provide a
> "Catholic education". If a parent doesn't want a
> child exposed to a "Catholic education" it's best
> not to send a child to a "Catholic school"

Wow. Couldn't have said that better. It's like exmos sending their kids to Primary, MIA, Seminary, Priesthood, or YW. If you don't want the influence, why are you doing it?

Again, I'm Catholic, but hey, I respect that others are non-believers. It's up to the individual. And it is up to the parent to mold their children in the arena of religion or no religion. Do not present yourself as an agnostic or atheist and then send your child to a religion based school and then get upset when your child is exposed to that religion! That's as crazy making as joining a cult!

I doubt you read my posts in this thread.

Please re-read.

I don't care what religious beliefs he is exposed to.

He learns their beliefs and answers correctly.

Yet if someone asks his OPINION, he should be able to respond in an honest and respectful manner without catching hell for it.

My wife and her entire family are catholic. Our son doesn't subscribe to any faith.

My middle-of-the-road Catholic family sent my brother to an excellent Catholic Jesuit high school (FYI for non-Catholics: the Jesuit priests are considered to be the intellectuals of the Catholic church. Their order puts a premium on learning and scholarship.) My mom told me that my brother, who was otherwise an "A" student, used to regularly tangle with his hard-line religion teacher. My dad used to plead with him to not raise his teacher's hackles.

Well, my brother was salutatorian of his class and he got into one of our country's top colleges. I guess his orneriness about religion didn't do him any harm. He and his wife successfully raised their kids with minimal religious influence, and my brother now considers himself to be agnostic.

Okay, your kid sounds awesome. You should definitely be proud!! I went to a Catholic school even though I was brought up in an LDS family but it was great...so much better than the public schools in my town...and half the student population wasn't even Catholic. In fact, questioning religion was actually encouraged in our religion classes. But I do remember having to draw a picture of the bible in second grade and little indoctrinated Aj asked her teacher she could draw the book of mormon instead haha that was a definite no...

Anyways, keep doing what you're doing because your son sounds like a really bright little guy:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 09:19PM by ajhart.

Hmm..sounds like your MIL is a little embarrassed. Catholics are very tolerant in general, provided you're not being an a-hole, and since there's narry a second grader who would be an overt A-hole, I'd say little mystic's just fine. In truth, you'd be hard-pressed to find any second grader in any religious school that didn't think the church part was boring as a**.

I'm a catholic & i think it's funny...and kind of cute because it's unbridled kid honesty.
If it'd be ok, I'd kind of like to read the rest of it.

Well, we didn't actually get to read it. His teacher has it, and they are all given to the priest who picks out a few of his favorite to read during mass. Little Mystic just gave us the basic statement of what he wrote.

But for an example of things he says, he just gave me one 5 minutes ago.

I was tucking him into bed and he said "Dad? How can people believe the story about Noah and the flood? Noah didn't have some zoo close by. How could he get all types of animals from across the oceans and continents all to show up to get on a small boat. That's impossible. Plus, what would they have eaten? Carnivores need meat, so they would starve if there were only 2 of every animal. Which couldn't happen anyway because the animals need different environments to live in, and they wouldn't have been able to all get to Noah anyway. How can people believe that? It's stupid and impossible. People really really think that it happened for real? How??"

Discussions like this happen almost every day at least once a day...

He should be honest and tell the truth. It would be absolutely wrong for him to lie for two reasons: if he has been raised to always tell the truth, lying would undermine what he's been taught and diminish who he is becoming. The second thing is: it's a Catholic school. Bearing false witness is breaking one of the ten commandments and is unacceptable. You need to point this out to your MIL.

But two thoughts: it's a Catholic school. While he isn't required to believe and nobody can force him, being outspoken about his unbelief or criticizing others who do believe while in the school or in class is inappropriate. Second, it's a Catholic school. They are not funded by the State or Federal Government and neither form of government has any say whatsoever in how the school is run, who may attend, or what curriculum is used. The Diocese the school is located in does that. They can accept or kick out anybody they want if they feel they have just cause. And you could sue, but you would loose.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 09:14PM by nwmcare.

He doesn't criticize others, and he remains silent about his opinions unless asked.

When asked questions such as "What are the 5 miracles Jesus performed?", he will spout off the answer perfectly, just like in any other subject.

But when asked opinion, he will answer honestly.

I don't see what just cause they could have for a child expressing his opinion when asked, and only when asked. He does not instigate religious arguments at school..only with his family. (Which drives MIL insane).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 09:33PM by Lost Mystic.

My point exactly. I am not saying the kid has crossed any lines and I have no idea whether this is a problem or not, but if the public schools suck and you want him there, I'd be sure they are okay with Little Mystic's comments. Private schools are generally perfectly free to refuse to accept kids that they feel are a problem This one comment is probably not going to ruffle any feathers, but if he has a habit of crticizing religion classes or Catholic believes you could find that it isn't appreciated.Just a thought.

I typed this before I read the above comment. You are probably okay if that is all he is doing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 09:20PM by bona dea.

I admire your son's honesty! And if he is not openly criticizing religious teachings or those who believe in them, he'll be fine. Your MIL could take a page from his book . . . so to speak!

I'm Catholic and all 5 of my kids went (or are attending) Catholic schools--there is no better education. But being outspoken about one's unbelief can get you into trouble: my dad was expelled from a Catholic elementary school for just that. Of course, this was in the 1930s, and the nuns were a whole lot less tolerant than the lay teachers we have now are, but still . . .

I sure get a kick out of that, so do my kids: Hey, Grampa, got any questions I should ask Mr or Miss So and So in Theology this week??? still elicits major laughs around the dinner table. Right after grace is said, of course!

Lost Mystic Wrote:
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> I'll sue.

You're gonna lose.

There is no problem except MIL. Your son's education is excellent and his response is perfect. In fact, he is going to boot camp in critical thinking.

Sending the apostate's child to a Catholic school vaccinates him against the attempts of family to hook him into either Catholicism OR Mormonism. You are teaching your son the difference between facts, doctrine, and opinion. How many kids Little Mystic's age are getting THAT in school?

MIL's statements have helped to clarify things, haven't they? You can reassure her she needn't worry. Catholics have thick skins--they are not like Mormons.

It's possibly the only good thing that came out of the Inquisition.

Anagrammy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 10:35PM by anagrammy.

ROFLMAO!

I'm surprised he's not allowed to opt out of the religion class. There were a couple of non-Catholic kids who went to Catholic elementary & high school in my town (70's/80's) and they weren't required to take the religion class b/c they weren't Catholic.

Some of the most open minded and critically thinking persons I know have been the priests who teach at Catholic schools and the graduates of those schools. I toured Rome with a priest of the Salesian Order who taught physics at a Catholic school in the United States and was amazed at the openess of his opinions. Here is a link to the site of a friend of mine who is a graduate of a Catholic school: http://seanbcarroll.com/

I don't have any problem with a kid expressing his opinion that he likes one subject more than another one. I would hope that the teachers don't either.

They know that kids tend to like reading, or music, or math, or science, or sports, or some subject more than religion. I think it's probably fairly common. Besides, he's very young, and he was asked a question that he answered honestly.

Kids learn quickly what they need to say and what they are required to say fast enough. I like his honestly! :-)

Yeah, my teachers knew I didn't like math and never held it against me.

SusieQ#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have any problem with a kid expressing his
> opinion that he likes one subject more than
> another one. I would hope that the teachers don't
> either.

Me too!

>
> They know that kids tend to like reading, or
> music, or math, or science, or sports, or some
> subject more than religion. I think it's probably
> fairly common. Besides, he's very young, and he
> was asked a question that he answered honestly.

I agree!


> Kids learn quickly what they need to say and what
> they are required to say fast enough. I like his
> honestly! :-)

Very true! Yeah, my main issue is with my MIL who raised all hell! The school hasn't said anything yet, and no notes have been sent home...

The weirdest part is your MILs logic of: "he might get kicked out so you should pull him out of the school."

That makes no sense.

If he were in danger of getting kicked out, I would assume Lost Mystic and his wife would have heard from the school.If I did have a child in danger of being kicked out, I might remove him first though so he wouldn't have that on his record. That hardly seems the case here



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 09:15PM by bona dea.

That was my main problem.

That, plus her remarks that we should remove him from his school ourselves.


UGH!!!