Yep, friend's slacker 16 year old son has a newfound fondness for engineering. His grades are average and yet he spends so much time practicing in the jazz band which is stupid. The jazz band won't give him a scholarship and a career. (Extra-curricular activities should come second.)

But, his two sisters don't really know what they want to do. One moved to Idaho to be a paramedic (I'm sure she could have found that schooling in her home state). While the other sister just had a child and dropped out of college to have the child.

This is disturbing. I really want to give my two cents. Normally, I'd stay out of it, but he makes his business my business by telling me all the family dynamics.

Sounds like his two daughters lost the gender lottery at birth. And now the slacker son, who needs a jolt of electricity to wake up, is suddenly interested in engineering. Odd too is that I'm telling my friend that his son has to start looking for scholarships NOW. He's a college graduate. He's living paycheck to paycheck. Did he forget that colleges charge tuition? Why is he so lackadaisical with his in getting his son schooling paid for?

Where are the parents?

The son, I believe, doesn't know what he wants to do. He's being pushed into engineering because he likes building erector sets. I told the son on "Bring Your Son to Work Day" that my twin was an engineer and the light bulb didn't go off in his head to maybe talk to or shadow my brother. This was about 6 months ago. This conveyed to me that he didn't really have an interest in engineering.

What would you guys do? Just nod your head and act like you care? Or boil inside like I am?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 11:33PM by newcomer.

Stop boiling. Who are these people? A 16 year old is mistaken about life? Let the kid figure it out himself. No one will be able to tell him anything. Leave the friendship intact and keep quiet.

bingoe4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stop boiling. Who are these people? A 16 year
> old is mistaken about life? Let the kid figure it
> out himself. No one will be able to tell him
> anything. Leave the friendship intact and keep
> quiet.


The daughters are still figuring out what they want to do, but the son is firm in his career plans (doubt it). This isn't his personality type AT ALL. He has mediocre grades.

The family is just a mess. Gay dad. Homophobic mom. Daughters have no real pressure to get a career. One had a child and dropped out of school to have it (I thought you could do both). The other daughter took out loans, moved to Idaho to become a paramedic (doesn't make sense financially). And now, slacker son at 15/16 knows exactly what he wants to be, something his 20 and 19 year old sisters haven't figured out yet.

Where are the parents?

I'm all for letting him figure out what he wants to do, but his parents aren't. Why can't he drift like his two older sisters when it comes to choosing a career?

These people are the children of my gay mormon co-worker. And mormon co-worker has the audacity to be resentful/jealous/curious/shocked that my mom has her PhD.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 11:35PM by newcomer.

newcomer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The daughters are still figuring out what they
> want to do, but the son is firm in his career
> plans (doubt it). This isn't his personality type
> AT ALL. He has mediocre grades.
>
> The family is just a mess. Gay dad. Homophobic
> mom. Daughters have no real pressure to get a
> career. One had a child and dropped out of school
> to have it (I thought you could do both). The
> other daughter took out loans, moved to Idaho to
> become a paramedic (doesn't make sense
> financially). And now, slacker son at 15/16 knows
> exactly what he wants to be, something his 20 and
> 19 year old sisters haven't figured out yet.
>
> Where are the parents?
>
> I'm all for letting him figure out what he wants
> to do, but his parents aren't. Why can't he drift
> like his two older sisters when it comes to
> choosing a career?
>
> These people are the children of my gay mormon
> co-worker. And mormon co-worker has the audacity
> to be resentful/jealous/curious/shocked that my
> mom has her PhD.

As a current engineering student (mechanical) I can proudly say that if Engineering isn't the thing for him, he'll figure it out (easily) within his first year of being in an engineering program. Hell, he'd probably only have to take 1 and MAYBE 2 classes to figure it out.

However, grades are not a reason to say that he can't/shouldn't do it. I know people who "couldn't make it" and they're doing better than a lot of people whom everyone said was a shoe-in for being the best engineer in the history of the world (or something like that). I hate to say that maybe they need to take a dip in the bucket, but if he finds out that engineering really is what he likes to do, then you'd be denying him the opportunity by discouraging him.

imaworkinonit:

Grades don't mean SHIT to engineering colleges (before you enter college). Most of the time they are more than willing to let the classes fail you before deciding that you're "not good enough to apply." Why? Because like "wth," a lot of students that go into engineering didn't do great in high school simply because it was boring, well that and they're always more than willing to let you waste your time and give them money (alllllll day).

As long as he got a decent set of grades in high school and can get into a college/university, he should be able to get into an engineering program at that college/university (not always the case, but in a good number of them it is).

As for helping him? See if he wants to join a club like TSA (Technology Students Association), very "engineery." They build stuff, use "programming" (weak, very weak programming, no language-knowledge required) and make circuits or robots and things (mostly Mechanical or Electrical/Computer Engineering, but it'd be a start). If he's into it, that's a good sign he might be the engineering type. If he doesn't like it and just wants to do erector sets but not really anything else... well, then that's not such a great sign.

John Lennon's aunt had the same worry about him. "John, rock and roll is well and good, but you will never make a living at it." She was spectacularly wrong, LOL, and you might be too. At any rate, it is none of your business. The kid will have to figure out his priorities and they will change as he matures. When he is on his own and has bills to pay, he will likely re prioritize. I think some of my nieces and nephews are making wrong decisions too, but they are not going to listen to mey unsolicited advice They need to figure thinks out for themselves.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John Lennon's aunt had the same worry about him.
> "John, rock and roll is well and good, but you
> will never make a living at it." She was
> spectacularly wrong, LOL, and you might be too. At
> any rate, it is none of your business. The kid
> will have to figure out his priorities and they
> will change as he matures. When he is on his own
> and has bills to pay, he will likely re
> prioritize. I think some of my nieces and nephews
> are making wrong decisions too, but they are not
> going to listen to mey unsolicited advice They
> need to figure thinks out for themselves.

I agree with you! It should be his son's choice, but it isn't. The son has mediocre grades and I believe, knowing his personality type, that he was pushed into engineering. No one in his family is an engineer. And his sisters, I believe, are far more driven than he is and they're drifting now. So, when he told me this shy little boy is set in what he wants to be, I called BS.

Why didn't older sister number 1 and 2 want to become an engineer? Why didn't he express any interest in engineering when I spoke about my brother just 6 months ago?

MY thing is: if you don't push your daughters to choose a career, why do it with your son? And not only that, encourage him to do jazz band even though he has mediocre grades? Why not stop jazz band, and work on your grades so you can get scholarships?

I can't believe it at times that I'm talking to a college graduate when I speak to him. His son is 16 years old, had never done a scholarship search, talked to a guidance counselor, the family is living paycheck to paycheck, and I have to remind him about getting good grades for scholarships and prioritizing your academic schedule for success?

I told him this in an instant message and he respond, "Good idea!" Hello! This isn't rocket science.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2012 11:49PM by newcomer.

Maybe you can gently point out othe options, but I would be careful.

What does this have to do with gender roles? This just sounds like a normal family. Lots of people don't know what they want to do.

I come from a VERY liberal atheistic family:

My little brother took until he was in his late twenties to figure out he wanted to be a paramedic.

My sister was a successful bureaucrat doing great work and decided that she would rather be a stay-at-home mom.

And I was a slacker 16 year old boy. Now I'm an engineer making 6 figures. If he found something he's interested in, good for him.

strivingforbalance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does this have to do with gender roles? This
> just sounds like a normal family. Lots of people
> don't know what they want to do.
>
> I come from a VERY liberal atheistic family:
>
> My little brother took until he was in his late
> twenties to figure out he wanted to be a
> paramedic.
>
> My sister was a successful bureaucrat doing great
> work and decided that she would rather be a
> stay-at-home mom.
>
> And I was a slacker 16 year old boy. Now I'm an
> engineer making 6 figures. If he found something
> he's interested in, good for him.

I'm willing to bet a month's pay that he didn't choose engineering as a career: someone else did, most likely his mother.

I'm all for taking your time to choose a career and not having one force fed to you. His mother is neurotic. She's on her son-in-law's case for not having an education when she and her daughter don't have one too. She had the nerve to joke with a coworker that her daughter lives in "the ghetto." That's what happens when your daughter gets knocked up with a breadwinner that makes minimum wage.

This woman's wicked ways are everywhere. She's really evil. She knew my co-worker is gay and married him anyways. Anytime they have an argument she throws this in his face.

I see her behind this with the son. I really do. And I think its a form of child abuse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 12:13AM by newcomer.

About the only thing you can do is try to be a friend and sounding board for her son. If he isn't cut out for engineering, he probably won't go into that field.He will figure it out eventually. Encourage him, point out options and try not to criticize his mother.There isn't much more you can do.

bona dea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About the only thing you can do is try to be a
> friend and sounding board for her son. If he isn't
> cut out for engineering, he probably won't go into
> that field.He will figure it out eventually.
> Encourage him, point out options and try not to
> criticize his mother.There isn't much more you can
> do.


He did seem really receptive of my suggestions, especially on looking for scholarships.

But, why do I have to tell him this? He's a college graduate. Money is tight. Why does he need to be told about looking for scholarships?

I'm curious now...

Why do you think he doesn't want to be an engineer (also, what kind of engineer?)

strivingforbalance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm curious now...
>
> Why do you think he doesn't want to be an
> engineer (also, what kind of engineer?)



That is my hunch. I hope I'm wrong, but I strongly doubt it.

I don't think it's coincidence that the son knows what he wants to do at 16 and his older sisters didn't and don't know now.

I'll try to set him up with my twin brother to see if he likes engineering. I just don't like seeing a kid pushed into something that he might not want to do. I think that's abusive.

Stay out of it.

goldenrule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stay out of it.


I wish I could. I really wish I could. I know I can only be quiet for so long. Every day at lunch he's always telling me his business. Always.

One day, I know, I'm going to be on the phone or something and get really short with him and I'll finally tell him how I really feel before putting a lid on it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 02:21PM by quebec.

"...I wish I could. I really wish I could. I know I can only be quiet for so long. Every day at lunch he's always telling me his business. Always...."
Then maybe the problem is not so much the slacker 16 year old son but that your friend (the dad) is always talking about it...
So the real problem would be that you're tired of hearing the same things over and over again.

Chill and find something else to worry about.

At least he has an aspiration. A lot of kids don't

If his family is dysfunctional and you care about him, instead of referring to him as a slacker, you should point him to an AP calculus class via his HS counselor.

Drunk Sailor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At least he has an aspiration. A lot of kids don't
>
>
> If his family is dysfunctional and you care about
> him, instead of referring to him as a slacker, you
> should point him to an AP calculus class via his
> HS counselor.


I think he if stopped jazz band and was told to focus on his grades, he'd be on the honor roll. He's not stupid. He's just a slacker.

Jazz band is a great foundation for a career in engineering. Think about it.

I have to ask you, why the f*ck do you care so much? Maybe you should take up an instrument.

school isnt the only way ya know.

i barely graduated high school, got b's and c's and d's, and guess what.... played jazz band too.

29 years old now, 2 kids, a house, and a 190k/yr job... as an engineer - how bout that

know what i learned in high school?... that it was boring.

the kid might be too smart for his environment. I was.

Agreed.

You sound like my DH. C-D student all through high school. Hated it because it was so boring and didn't understand why he had to take "stupid" classes that "had nothing to do with life" lol. My DH is super creative and there was never an opportunity for him to cultivate that talent in school. He also played the trumpet in the marching band lol.

He went to a Devry-like trade school after his mission. Now is a very successful engineer. Making 6 figs "consulting" and "building stuff". And having fun! Finally being rewarded for his intelligence and creativity is so awesome. He also plays guitar on the side in a classic rock cover band. I love it.

Myself on the other hand, very type A, loved school, got good grades, went to a 4 year college, then law school. Did everything the "right" more traditional way and I couldn't command his salary without working VERY hard and probably being miserable.

Anyway, there isn't one right way to do things. I could have easily labeled by DH a slacked back in the day because his grades sucked. But he just was misunderstood, needed time to grow up and figure things out. Plus being in the right environment helped a ton too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 02:17PM by goldenrule.

Don't. Many will change their mind after they start college. And many change their mind after they GRADUATE from college.

The important thing is getting in to a decent school, and figuring out what he can afford.

My opinion? It doesn't matter who made the engineering decision. If he doesn't have the grades, he won't get accepted into the major and he'll have to do something else.

You may think he should quit the jazz band, but I highly doubt he'd appreciate or take that suggestion. And I happen to be a musician, so I don't think music is a waste of time. Everybody needs a chance to unwind and interact with other people, and every part of your brain gets a workout doing music, ESPECIALLY JAZZ. It's good for him and he likes it.

Some kids take longer to buckle down and get serious about school. Either he will or he won't. You can encourage him, but he's going to have to be the one who wants to do it.

One suggestion: If he lives close to a university, he could benefit from taking a tour of the campus. They'll give him information about tuition, scholarships and grade requirements. I also think there are some good books out there on how to go to college without going into debt, or maybe even a financial planning book. Maybe if you made a gift of one of those, he might start thinking more seriously about it. And then you stand back and let him figure it out. Has he thought about how to pay for it? I know my daughter got serious about applying for scholarships when we told her we didn't know how much we'd be able to pay for.

You asked for advoce... Mine would be to chill the hell out. 16 years old and practicing a musical instrument all the time? Awesome. I can think of hundreds of worse things to do. I know a bunch of engineers (I could name 10 off the top of my head) who were very involved in music in HS and college and turned out just fine. The creativity vs the structure of engineering are good balance. If he was doin drugs or suicidal and the parents didn't care, then saying something would be a good idea.

Is it ok to encourage the kid to get his grades up? Yep. Be a good role model? Sure.

I've been in education for many, many years. Take away that kid's music and I guarantee you'll see a new definition of "slacker". Activities like music keep kids in school and support whole brain development. The adolescent brain doesn't finish maturing in many people until their mid 20s. Do some research. Your ignorance on the subject is really showing.

Oh, and in case you were wondering- a lot of colleges give stipends and/or scholarships to the band kids. They don't even have to be music majors. If they join the marching band, many schools will give them priority registration as well.

In general...seriously. Find somethig else to worry about.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 02:39AM by moonbeam.

moonbeam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You asked for advoce... Mine would be to chill the
> hell out. 16 years old and practicing a musical
> instrument all the time? Awesome. I can think of
> hundreds of worse things to do. I know a bunch of
> engineers (I could name 10 off the top of my head)
> who were very involved in music in HS and college
> and turned out just fine. The creativity vs the
> structure of engineering are good balance. If he
> was doin drugs or suicidal and the parents didn't
> care, then saying something would be a good idea.
>
>
> Is it ok to encourage the kid to get his grades
> up? Yep. Be a good role model? Sure.
>
> I've been in education for many, many years. Take
> away that kid's music and I guarantee you'll see a
> new definition of "slacker". Activities like music
> keep kids in school and support whole brain
> development. The adolescent brain doesn't finish
> maturing in many people until their mid 20s. Do
> some research. Your ignorance on the subject is
> really showing.
>
> Oh, and in case you were wondering- a lot of
> colleges give stipends and/or scholarships to the
> band kids. They don't even have to be music
> majors. If they join the marching band, many
> schools will give them priority registration as
> well.
>
> In general...seriously. Find somethig else to
> worry about.

I wish I could act like it didn't exist. But I have to hear about it everyday. And I don't think it is coincidence that the son knows what he wants to do and the daughters didn't.

Good luck with getting a jazz stipend. Who wants to put all their eggs in one basket when it comes to scholarships?

If money is tight, you put your children in a position where they can get scholarship money and getting good grades is the most effective approach. Period.

I'm going to make a guess: the son won't go to a community college like his sisters. I bet you that.

Yeah, because there are no music scholarships in the world, and nobody ever made a career out of music...

That was kind of the point about John Lennon. The kid may not be that kind of success and likely won't, but he still could have a career involving music.Lots of people do and are successful.Even if he doesn't make a living with it, there is nothing wrong with a hobby. He could be doing many things less worthwhile.

So many older (not necessarily wiser) folks think they can carve out a path for the lives of the younger ones. This never works in my experience.

All you can do is be a listening ear and offer advice only if it is requested.

He's young - just as we once were. He'll be okay even if, just as we did, he needs to learn his path the hard way. This is usually the only way but at least he has aspirations. I wouldn't like to be a young person in today's world for sure - opportunities are shrinking fast.

Briggy

What would I do? I would shut up and listen.

Look, it's not your problem. Unless these kids live with you and paying for college is your responsibility, what they choose to do with their lives and how involved the parents are -- neither is any of your business, not your responsibility, not your problem.

The kid needs a listening ear. He's trying to work things out for himself.

There is such a thing as FAFSA. Nobody needs to "go looking for scholarships" and parents don't need to pay a single dime for college. (Mine didn't.) People figure it out. They get part-time jobs, student loans, grants, scholarships, and sometimes they drop out before earning that degree.

Your concern is the kid seems to be making it your business by dumping on you every single day. So, be the supportive aunt/uncle and just listen. Offer advice ONLY if it is specifically asked for. If the kid asks you "What do you think I should do?" then tell him. If he asked me that question, I'd tell him to choose something he likes and is interested in--something he can visualize doing for the rest of his life. I'd tell him that college is hard, so if you don't love what you're studying, you may fail. I'd tell him not to worry about what anyone else wants him to do, because at the end of the day (every day), he has to live with himself and his choices. Don't commit thousands of dollars and years of your life to something you're only lukewarm about. If you can't think of anything that lights you up, then get a McJob and don't worry about it until you figure it out.

You keep your mouth shut and butt out. Unless he specifically asks your opinion, you respect that he's willing to talk to you and treats you with the opinion that he's willing to trust you.

Your comment about stupidity disturbs me. The fact that a sixteen year old is passionate about anything, especially music, and you denounce it as stupid is cruel. Music is a fantastic form of self-expression. It's also great to teach yourself to focus, to work with a group, and to learn that you must work to improve.

And if you really, really don't want to hear it - be the jerk and tell them you're not interested and not to bother you. Problem solved.

Exactly. Who died and made you keeper of others' kids?

Walk away.

Ron

kestrafinn (not logged in) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You keep your mouth shut and butt out. Unless he
> specifically asks your opinion, you respect that
> he's willing to talk to you and treats you with
> the opinion that he's willing to trust you.
>
> Your comment about stupidity disturbs me. The
> fact that a sixteen year old is passionate about
> anything, especially music, and you denounce it as
> stupid is cruel. Music is a fantastic form of
> self-expression. It's also great to teach
> yourself to focus, to work with a group, and to
> learn that you must work to improve.
>
> And if you really, really don't want to hear it -
> be the jerk and tell them you're not interested
> and not to bother you. Problem solved.

I didn't "diss" music. Why do people keep saying that?

Good grades will give him a scholarship before playing an instrument.

As a parent, aren't you supposed to help your children? Why do I have to remind him that his son should be looking for scholarships? How is that a "Good idea"? It was common sense.

I have an over-achieving 20 year-old daughter, a VERY dependent 19 year-old son, and a super slacking, super popular 15 year old son. The daughter graduated high school as the president of her honor society with over 30 college credit hours because of dual credit courses. She started her university studies intending to become a nurse-anesthetist (cause the make a ton of money and don't have to put up with demanding patients - just put em under) but now is majoring in psychology. She calls and visits on rare occasions.

The very dependent son, though an above-average student in classes that interest him, failed to get his university application in on time cause mommy and daddy failed to do it for him. He is growning up at a community college where he is taking the courses necessary to transfer to a university while learning not to run his car into people and property while commuting between home and college. He claims he wants to leave home and go far, far away - preferably to some large city, but so far, mom and I aren't seeing much progress towards that goal.

Then there is my youngest, Mr. Popularity. Everybody everywhere seems to know and like him. Some of his grades are horrible but he, and the adults that are supposed to hold him accountable at school, always seem to see the bright side. Yeah, he's failing Spanish right now, but his counselor points out that if he gets a 78 or higher in the second semester he'll still be able to pull it off. Our youngest really isn't concerned about the future (meaning tomorrow). He's absolutely confident that everything will work out to his advantage and he's openly said that he would LOVE to live with mommy and daddy for EVER!!!!!

I don't even know what to tell my own kids, so I sure don't know what to tell you about someone elses kids.

If the kid wants to be a jazz musician, that's great. I think you're full of it!

Do you maybe think these kids have had a difficult life up to now--and need some time to figure it out? You just described their parentage.

I have 2 kids who are 26. One has been really struggling and finally back to work after a year off work. He has some other really big issues. My daughter is in her final year of college, but she is 26 and she takes breaks, travels, works in Alaska in the summer, etc. She is TBM, her brother is very much not. I just keep holding my breath. Where are THEIR PARENTS--right here being there for them whenever they need us.

My sister had 3 children--all 3 had babies at age 19 (the sons by YOUNG girlfriends). The sons married the girlfriends and have been married for over 10 years each now. The daughter got married, her husband adopted her child, and she is a school teacher. They are all doing very well now--with more kids, too, but all NOT MORMON. My sister and her husband are mormon.

You can NEVER predict what kids will turn out like. Do I have money to finance my daughter's college (or my son's?)--No. She is paying her own or using student loans. I will help her pay her student loans.

My boyfriend--his two children had trust funds and both graduated from college. One works as a salesman for a computer company and the other works as a zip line guide . . . sounds productive to me.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you maybe think these kids have had a difficult
> life up to now--and need some time to figure it
> out? You just described their parentage.
>
> I have 2 kids who are 26. One has been really
> struggling and finally back to work after a year
> off work. He has some other really big issues. My
> daughter is in her final year of college, but she
> is 26 and she takes breaks, travels, works in
> Alaska in the summer, etc. She is TBM, her brother
> is very much not. I just keep holding my breath.
> Where are THEIR PARENTS--right here being there
> for them whenever they need us.
>
> My sister had 3 children--all 3 had babies at age
> 19 (the sons by YOUNG girlfriends). The sons
> married the girlfriends and have been married for
> over 10 years each now. The daughter got married,
> her husband adopted her child, and she is a school
> teacher. They are all doing very well now--with
> more kids, too, but all NOT MORMON. My sister and
> her husband are mormon.
>
> You can NEVER predict what kids will turn out
> like. Do I have money to finance my daughter's
> college (or my son's?)--No. She is paying her own
> or using student loans. I will help her pay her
> student loans.
>
> My boyfriend--his two children had trust funds and
> both graduated from college. One works as a
> salesman for a computer company and the other
> works as a zip line guide . . . sounds productive
> to me.


I'm right there with you. Kids should make the decision of what path they want to take.

But don't tell me your slacker son is set in what he wants to do while his two older sisters (that probably had better grades) are drifting.

I'm just not buying it.

And when you go to great lengths to show how special your family is (always talking about them and always giving out family photos), I'm shocked that you wouldn't remind your child about scholarships for school especially when you're still paying for your masters in accounting from BYU 10 years ago. This is common sense.

Instead of taking those family photos on the beach, talk to your son about getting his schooling paid for or advise your daughter not to take out loans to go to paramedic's school in Idaho.

Don't say anything, because they will just tell you to MYOB anyway.

your co-worker's family than you are comfortable with.

So you could say, I want to be supportive of you and your family but I'm beginning to feel a little overwhelmed with you talking about them. I need to take a break, now about client xyz.

Honestly newcomer - I really don't understand why you would choose to let this bug you at all - IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Sometimes people just want to vent- it doesn't mean you need to fix anything or take an active roll or even give an opinion. Let it go. IMO it really is none of your business.

I wouldn't call the jazz band a waist of time. Just by way of information, schools typically have way more musical scholarships then they do athletic ones. In fact, most schools have so many musical scholarships, that a good many go unfilled every year.

I wouldn't call anything a waist of time.