I mean really, what's the point? Is it for the tithing money or do the GAs really buy into all this nonsense? I've had my doubts for a long time but always thought it was somehow true until two days ago when I discovered this site. I'm sure you know what I'm going through. Lots of emotions. But what's pissing me off is wondering how could people be so stupid? Why did I buy into this for so long? I feel like my childhood and young adulthood was wasted! I am a new mom and I am so grateful I realized what bs it is before I brainwashed my daughter too! So bitter and angry! Advice?

That's what I'm trying to tell myself between the tears and anger.

Wow...I'm sorry! It's really hard having your entire reality yanked out from underneath you...it does suck.
To be honest, there are varying degrees of belief among leadership, & that's obvious by just reading what they've written.
Believe me, I understand about bitterness towards the church, but try to take the time to feel all of the emotions. When you feel like you've healed enough, try to sort out you, without the church. It's really difficult when it's your whole reality, to move on. It's totally worth it, but difficult.
And most importantly, take your time! You've seen & heard a lot & it can be emotional overload. You belong the church of you at the moment, so get to know your own core beliefs & values. Thats the best advice I can give, I hope things get better for you soon! We'll all be here for you!!!

Thank you. That made me cry just knowing how much support I have on here. And good advice. I'm going to take awhile to sort out my feelings before deciding what I should do the rest of my life. I have realized though that not knowing if there is an afterlife anymore has made me want to cherish life even more now.

You no longer need to be so preoccupied about the next life that you make this one miserable. That is a great tragedy that you will be able to avoid from here on out. So many mormons use eternity as an excuse to forego giving themselves the help they need now. You'll also enjoy a life free of arbitrary rules, unnecessary guilt, and cognitive dissonance. Granted, some things that mormonism teaches are definitely good, though you'll find that none of those things are unique to mormonism, and mormonism actually does a very poor job at teaching them.

Welcome to our community!

this is the hardest part - but it does get better

take some time for yourself - do something nice for yourself - you probably have a million thoughts right now but just give yourself some time to breathe - you don't have to have everything figured out right now - that's what the rest of your life is for...

(at least, if i could send a message to my past self as i was exactly where you are that's what i'd say - hopefully it applies)

oh, and congratulations!

The guy who wants to sell you land in a Florida swamp (Eric Estrada) is a part of the same game that Mormons play. Don't be shocked that you have wandered into the arena of the shyster, as millions have. Just be glad that you figured it out and move on. It helps to warn others--that's what humanity is all about.

It's the honest person who is the most shocked at discovering the lies. You would never do something like that - how could they? Really, it just shows that you're a better person than they are. Just relax and cut yourself some slack - you were indoctrinated in this belief system since your childhood, the most impressionable time of life. You were courageous enough to find the truth and honest enough with yourself to accept it. Not many people can even bring themselves to question their deepest beliefs. Welcome.

Simple. If they convince people that the church is all daisies and sunshine and rainbows, people will be more likely to join. A few months of post-baptismal brainwashing and voila, you have one delusional cult-member. Then there are those of us who come to our senses and realize and admit that the church is bat-s*** crazy and can't get out fast enough.

I firmly believe that once a person becomes thoroughly entrenched in Mormonism, it's hard for them to realize that they've been deceived.

Keep reading. Keep posting if you need anything.

Lots of people have gone through what you have. You're not alone.

Also, be good to yourself physically right now. It's going to be a rocky emotional ride.

Welcome to RFM ktay! Congratulations for finding out the truth, and saving your daughter. The fact that the Mormons brainwash, threaten, and manipulate little children is my pet peeve. Resigning with my own children is something I'm very proud of. We are all much happier now, and none of their threats came true, except that we did lose some so-called "friends."

You will feel many different emotions, as you discover each new lie. My main emotion was anger, that I put up with abuse for nothing. I did not have a good church experience at the end, because I was a divorced single working mother, and there is no place in the Mormon church for people like us. We needed Christ and unconditional love, and the Mormons gave us Joseph Smith, polygamy, disrespect for people's rights, racism, judgments, social-climbing, and petty gossip. We found Christ in another church.

Please don't beat yourself up for falling for a hoax. If you were BIC, you were obeying and trusting your parents, like a good child. If you are a convert, you were worked on by trained salespeople, PR hype, and the promise of instant friendship, instant belonging. So many of us were certain that the Mormon church offered the best help in raising our children. We were deceived that we were doing God's work. I will forever feel guilty about teaching lies to Primary and Sunday school children.

You will go through fear, maybe even nightmares, regret, loss, sorrow, feelings of isolation. Sometimes you will question your sanity. Please know that you are not alone! Also, you are not crazy, the Mormons are.

It took me several months of studying, before I finally realized that the Mormon church is a cult. Yes, it is a cult. You will need to be brave, in order to escape. Many people on this board have lost a spouse and have alienated their families by leaving. You and I are fortunate to have our children with us.

We are here in the middle of the night, when you are too upset to sleep. We are here to help you find the truth, and to answer your questions honestly. We won't sell you another religion, or non-religion.

You already are seeing some of the positives of knowing the truth! I love what you said: I have realized though that not knowing if there is an afterlife anymore has made me want to cherish life even more now." I was very relieved to know that all that celestial kingdom and polygamy in the afterlife tripe was just nonsense. I much prefer not knowing to knowing the wrong answers.

(((hugs))) through your tears and anger. I was that way 5 years ago. It gets better, and you will know a joy that you never thought was possible!

Study a bit on the JWs or Scientology.

Why does the governing body (top people of the JWs in Brooklyn NY) deceive people? They are almost identical to the general authorities of Mormonism

Why do the top people in Scientology deceive people?

etc. You get the idea. Sadly, Mormonism is no different. Just the names change and religious definitions vary from group to group.

Even though technically they're not "churches", I would add:
- Campus crusade for Christ
- the Navigators


"An evangelism and discipleship training organization equipping Christians for a life of faith through one-to-one relationships and small-group studies focused on discipleship."

In other words: love bombing, brainwashing, MLM etc.

VERY cultish.

is that this deception is deeply personal. Monson and his minions pretend that the gospel is all about you, your unique spiritual status, your most personal relations with parents, spouse and children.

The shock of discovering that Mormonism is totally impersonal and that the LDS Church is a hollow-shallow business cuts to the core Yes it's personal and yes it hurts. Betrayal by the Brethren feels like a sucker punch to the gospel gut.

As you learn to stand on your own two feet without the Mormon Church you will be more self reliant and less apt to be suckered again by anyone for any reason.

This board is a fountain of wisdom regarding the process you have just started. I hope you stick around.

Welcome ktay. Two days since you discovered the reatl truth? The anger and tears are just normal. I've been 'deconverted' for two years now and have gone through a lot of emotions, like a rollercoaster, but at the end it does get better.

Why the deception? Why people believe? I've wondered the same things, why did I believe? Did the missionaries knowingly lied to me? From my first encounter with mormonism, it sounded both suspicious and attractive and that was probably always true for me. As a convert I found some things funny but they also intrigued me to want to know more. Well, the wanting to know more has taken me to the path I am in now.

The thing that bothers me the most is the law of tithing, how can the top dogs go to very poor places of the world and take 10% of these people's income and then return to their luxury homes in SLC and feel good about themselves. How can a bishop ask a father or a mother to pay the church first before they pay their bills or buy food? No matter how much they truly believe it cannot feel right. I think some believe no matter what, some discover the truth but carry on and some leave, fortunately more and more are leaving.

D

and yet I'm happy for you, too. You get to start a new life based on REALITY.

Once I figured it out, I couldn't fathom that I had actually believed some of the truly ridiculous stuff.

A book that helped me understand how vulnerable people are to manipulation and control was Steven Hassan's book "Combatting Cult Mind Control". It will also help you understand the emotions you will go through on the way out of any destructive and controlling church, and help you recognize that it's the result of the manipulation and conditioning, not a sign that you are making a mistake. It's NORMAL to have conflicting emotions and ride an emotional roller coaster when you leave a cult. (If you are uncomfortable with the C word, I do apologize).

It's perfectly natural and normal to believe what your parents and all the people you associate with with believe. You weren't stupid or gullible. You were HUMAN, and humans can be deceived with the right combination of conditioning and misinformation.

Link to Steven Hassan's website (note--the church doesn't fit this description in every aspect, unless you think of the missionary rules): http://freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php

It is so hard to realize you've been lied to and to go from knowing all the answers (or thinking you know) to starting over again and figuring out your own reality. But it is so worth it too. Most everyone on this board and others like it will tell you the same. That they are much happier and have much more peaceful lives than they ever did as Mormons. Sure, there are hurdles to overcome but mostly, even when you are working things out, there is a feeling of light and freedom you can't feel as a Mormon. And you make friends outside the church that are your real friends. Your friendship isn't based on how well you live Mormonism. And your values and morals actually become stronger - because they are based on what matters to YOU. Your values are no longer inflicted upon you from an outside source. They are coming from deep inside you.

I'm happy for you that you found out the truth while you are still young enough to own most of your life. Some people don't figure things out until half or more of their lives are over. But whenever you find freedom, it's a good thing. Post as often as you like - we are glad you are here.

"And your values and morals actually become stronger - because they are based on what matters to YOU. Your values are no longer inflicted upon you from an outside source. They are coming from deep inside you."

Well said, CA girl.

ktay getting out of the cult and all the responses were great.

Hey, ktay, I married a non-mormon too, but I baptized her into the cult. Biggest mistake I ever made.

Then one day at the dinner table, I meant to say, "Please pass the salt," but instead I blurted out, "This F'ing church is ruining our lives." My wife agreed, so we left.

Well, it wasn't really quite like that, but we've never been happier to be rid of the shackles of Mormonism. And all of our kids are out of it too!

Now go forth and be deceived no more.

As a former Mormon I know how stupid you can feel leaving a church you once "bore witness" of. When I left the Mormon church I understood how the Mormon church deceived me and pushed me to bear testimony. But I did not understand what weakness (or sin, if you will) caused ME to fall into their trap. It took two years of prayer and soul searching to reach an answer after I left the church. The answer came by way of a Presbyterian minister who gave a sermon "Beware the Polished Cup"....the polished cup of Mormonism: ACHIEVEMENT, APPEARANCE, AFFLUENCE. There's MY weakness revealed!!! I so wanted a polished life, and lots of family so I went for appearances and a "family put together on paper" while the Mormon church was destructive to my real family, degrading those who did not meet the standards! I have now chosen grace over the polished cup. A mormon friend told me "Well, we believe in grace, too, up to a point." My friend, "grace up to a point" is not grace, it is merely "help".

Everyone thank you so much. You all have great advice. I have lived with guilt and fear for so long and the relief I am feeling can't really be put into words. I am still in shock. My entire outlook has completely changed. I took a long shower last night and just cried and cried. This morning I feel much better. I was BIC too and I don't even know how long it will take to let my parents know my true feelings.

I married my high school sweet heart almost three years ago who is a non member. I have always felt guilty and my parents have always let me know what I disappointment I was. Since I am also the oldest granddaughter, my grandparents told me I was supposed to be the example to all my cousins. I have always felt like a failure and now feel terrible that I tried so hard to convert my husband. My mom would tell me that he doesn't love me enough to convert and I believed it.

My husband has been so gracious this entire time. He has never judged me or told me how crazy I was. He is helping a lot with this healing process. All of that pain of disobeying and guilt from my parents is gone now, well mostly. I do feel free but sad at what I sometimes did to hurt my husband. What a blessing in disguise it was to marry a non member!!

It's no wonder you feel so terrible. This is like experiencing a death; there will be a grieving process to go through, but I cannot express adequately how very fortunate you are to have such a wonderful, supportive, loving, understanding, wise husband. You made a very wise decision in marrying him - and he, you. Ta Da! That's a very big thing.

Unsolicited advice: Revel in the love triangle you have now of you, your husband and baby. I like to think in images and colors sometimes, using visualizations: I imagine warm, happy, bright yellow ribbons of love circling all around your new little family of three. You're so lucky to have them! They're what REALLY matters.

Eventually you'll be able to look back at this and roll your eyes, I hope. Dance with your baby, sing, and be happy you found out! You'll be fine, but it's also perfectly normal to feel anger, hurt, resentment, all that.

Good luck, ktay, and it's so good to read of your experiences.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 01:02PM by serena.

I too am BIC and the oldest grandchild on both sides and I also married a non-member. I completely understand the pressure you are always under to be a good example to all the younger kids. Even when it's not said out loud, you can just feel it.

Welcome to here. I think the best part is that you won't have to feel alone anymore. You can come here and know that you are not crazy, and that you're not the only one going through all this. And, best of all, you will know that the bumpy road does get better, and that it's definately worth it to be able to be your true self.

Give yourself lots of time and thought. Do not fall for traps where TBM people ask you about how you know or feel the new information you now have......often they will act very interested and supportative and then turn on you. Ask me how I know....

Anyone in your family who wants to know what you believe in or don't believe in can read a book or get on this forum or get a library card. I am in my 11th month of studying on this and other websites and I have been quiet to my family. I had them freak out on me one time and now we have mediated a truce....don't ask, don't discuss. They know where to find info if they want to learn. I don't even want to know if they do read something.....

Its your journey....you are lucky to have such a supportative spouse. Good luck. Welcome to reality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 12:54PM by upsidedown.

There is something about safe and secure and relative easy access to power and dominance and attention and respect and acceptance from other people that makes one feel good about oneself.

I think cricket made a good point. The deception is personal. The LDS Church pretends to not just care about you and your family, they pretend to BE your family.

You might find it helpful to read the story of Peter and Mary Danzig. http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon489.html

It took Mary almost two years to finally resign because she couldn't get it through her head that the church leaders she considered to be part of her "family" actually didn't give a sh*t about her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTDXHjUy-As

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrODZL8m9Dg

http://mormonstories.org/?p=845

Forget the past, focus on the present moment and your future. This is the beginning of a new life, you are now born free, as free as the grass grows, as free as the wind blows, born free to follow your heart.

Instead of someone telling you what to believe, how to behave, and what to do, you are now the captain of your life, you are the one who now makes these decisions.

A pill that has been hard for me to swallow is that life is never required to turn out the way I think it "should" and "should have."

I have been learning about cognitive therapy lately through the book "Feeling Good" by the psychotherapist David Burns. He explains how our prolonged and distracting anger, anxiety, rage, and despair are often a reflection of our belief that an event in the past "should have" happened a different way. He calls these "should statements" and associates them with rigidity and helplessness.

He's not saying that a moment of passing intense anger or sadness is unhealthy, but if they become overly distracting from you pursing goals that bring you fulfillment then you can take a closer look at what the thought is and how to reframe it so you have more energy to focus on what is important to you.

He proposes many effective ways to re-write these thoughts in an explanation style that gives you control over the situation in a realistic way.

For example:

He suggests reframing "should" to "It would have been nice if...., but it's not the end of the world because... [I learned]."

I often have the same thought that my time trying to be a good Mormon was completely wasted, but using David Burns suggestion I feel comfortable saying,

"It would have been nice to have not been confused by the schizophrenic culture I was born into, but since I was I have learned a lot about human nature. I have learned firsthand about the blindspots of emotional reasoning and the benefit of basing choices off of evidence."

Burns also describes a list of common cognitive distortions in out thinking that make certain events more important than they are.

I can really relate to that feeling that childhood was wasted in silliness and confusion, but it's only a waste if I don't learn from it and see my experiences as inspiration for more autonomous choices. That's the fun of life in my opinion--to invent uses for our experiences whatever they might be.

I'm going down the cognitive therapy route to permanently set some revolutionary different ways of viewing my life and the thoughts that have distracted me in the past. I have a long road ahead of me, but after only a month dabbling in it I can see a significant difference in my ability to bring my emotions and goals in alignment.

Getting a therapist would help me to speed up the process, but applying the book on it's own is working for me right now. I strongly recommend it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 05:28PM by Brian M.

I thought of one more thing I'd like to share.

When I woke up from Mormonism, it felt like a very large chunk of my personality died. My motivations for a lot of my behavior died as well.

I see this as an exiting and unique opportunity. Not everybody gets to experience this death and rebirth as an adult. This rebirth stage of our life is completely in our control. This time it is not at all like when we were toddlers and we couldn't help but copy the people around us. This time we get to have much more freedom with what we surround ourselves with as we construct our likes and dislikes, our goals and values.

You are very wise to assume it will take time to decide what you will be able to do next wholeheartedly. It will. I think it's possible to speed up the process to focus on a balanced discovery of your likes and dislikes. Many psychologists observe that our minds have a negativity bias to focus on identifying threats and disgusts. Reality is important to well-being, but in order to find fulfillment in life we need to encourage at least equal attention to what is pleasant, enjoyable, and satisfying to us individually.

I see the whole "waking up from an illusion" experience as a unique opportunity to give us a choice to live our lives more passionately, individually, and wisely.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2012 05:26PM by Brian M.

Great advice everyone. The support here is really astounding. I will look at those websites too

The General Authorities are all unrepentant LIARS. They will never admit the whole thing is a fraud. Just get away from them. Ignore them. Jensen is an accomplished liar, changing the subject, bobbing and weaving. Monson is so out of touch he is, for all intent and purposes, INSANE.

The golden plate were purely imaginary Thomas. Get down on your knees and beg for forgiveness for all the harm you've caused.

ktay said
"...I have always felt guilty and my parents have always let me know what I disappointment I was. Since I am also the oldest granddaughter, my grandparents told me I was supposed to be the example to all my cousins..."
Please remember that the idea of their expectations is their own problem not yours. Your life is your own. Enjoy it!
{{{great big hugs}}}

I believe the people who are deceiving you are just as deceived as you were. Certainly Joseph Smith was in on the fraud. Of course Joseph Smith very well may have gotten to the point that he was delusional and believed it himself. It also seems EXTREMELY likely that Sidney Rigdon & Oliver Cowdery were in on it.

Beyond that it's difficult to determine who was or was not part of the fraud. There is a whole different thread going on whether people think the current prophet believes it or not. We all have our opinions, but who knows. In my opinion nearly all of the active members and leadership of the church truly believe.

The point I am getting to is that humans are really really bad at objectively determining the truth. We all have lots of beliefs that we have picked up for various reasons. Once we have a belief the human brain is really good at trying to keep believing - it takes something really big to re-evaluate. This strong tendency to keep believing what we already believe is called confirmation bias. Check this link out to learn more: http://www.michaelshermer.com/weird-things/excerpt/.

We are all subject to this - you will see people on this forum with all kinds of different beliefs and you will see them holding tightly to those beliefs.

So don't feel stupid that you believed for so long. You are hard wired to work that way. In fact your ability to reconsider is commendable. Very few can do so. So pat yourself on the back and keep using that ability.

You can be angry that you we're deceived but don't be too angry with those around you that you heard it from directly. Most likely they were as completed deceived as you were.

Why do all con artists do it? JS did it for money, power and sex. The GAs don't get sex (that we know of), but they do get plush cheers, lots of adoration, and huge expense accounts.