Am in a conversation with TBM who is reading Joseph Allen's book on BofM lands in Central America and Joseph claims that the Maya Code has been cracked and the phase, "and it came to pass" is used frequently by the Maya so they obviously are Lehi descendents.

Couldn't find anything worthwhile at the Maxwell Instutue site. Is anyone familar with the subject that can add any info on it?

Other book reviews of Allens by the apologists are not complementary.

Sounds like utter bollocks to me. I'd love to hear where that one comes from.

When you're carving in rocks, of course you will carve "and it came to pass" as much as possible to use as much rock space as possible.

Idiot TBMs.

Nonsense. Refer him to NOVA:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/cracking-maya-code.html

The ancient Maya civilization of Central America left behind an intricate and mysterious hieroglyphic script, carved on monuments, painted on pottery, and drawn in handmade bark-paper books. For centuries, scholars considered it too complex ever to understand—until recently, when an ingenious series of breakthroughs finally cracked the code and unleashed a torrent of new insights into the Mayas' turbulent past. For the first time, NOVA presents the epic inside story of how the decoding was done—traveling to the remote jungles of southern Mexico and Central America to investigate how the code was broken and what Maya writings now reveal.

"In Maya, 'i ut' means 'and then it happened'" (program narrator), and in the brief Maya voice reading (and the narrator's translation), "i u"/"and then it happened" occurs twice. Sounds rather close to "it came to pass"...(and also takes up much less space). Just an impartial observation.

The fact that translations have some similarities when someone translated it to English can often be cultural bias of the translators.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2012 10:02PM by MJ.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3506_mayacode.html

"NARRATOR: The backward and forward counting glyphs were phonetically spelled phrases: i, u, ti and u, ti, ya.

In Maya, i ut means "and then it happened," and ut iy means "since it happened."

The words that Thompson had viewed as mere dates were in fact telling a story.

MAYA VOICE: I ut / hun kibin / canlahun uniu / nawah / ix katun ahau / ix naman ahau / yichnal Kinich Yo'onal Ac / buluc lahun / uinalihy hun habiy / hun katun / I ut / kan kimi / kanlahum ikat / siyah / ix huntan ac / ix k'in ahau.

TRANSLATION VOICE: ...and then it happened, on the day 1 Kib 14 K'ank'in, that she was adorned in marriage, Lady K'atun Ahau, lady of Naman. And after 10 days, 11 months, one year and one score of years, then it happened, on the day 4 Kimi 14 Uo, that their daughter was born, the royal sun lady." "

That does it. I'm going back to church. Forget the horses, chariots, wheat, swine, cows, coins, satyrs, figs, goats, steel, glass, silk, and all the other anachronisms. Who cares about missing DNA. Forget the Elohim penis, elkenah=Anubis, mistranslation of entire papyri. Never mind the polyandry or incompatible accounts of meeting god the first time.

None of those and many more issues matter. We now have incontrovertible proof the book of Mormon is true because the Mayans have a phrase for "and then...." Which is equivalent to "it came to pass". That's god's best attempt to show us his gospel is true.

How could I ever have doubted...and then I laughed out loud.




Richard Foxe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "In Maya, 'i ut' means 'and then it happened'"
> (program narrator), and in the brief Maya voice
> reading (and the narrator's translation), "i
> u"/"and then it happened" occurs twice. Sounds
> rather close to "it came to pass"...(and also
> takes up much less space). Just an impartial
>

One. Solomon spalding is surely rolling in his grave.

Two. The opinions of men mingled with scripture.

Three. One plus two equals three strikes, your out Mr. Allen!

(leftover mormon math that is)

I heard they also found an inscription that says, "And for heaven's sake let's make sure we hide all the evidence of horses, sheep, chariots, steel, elephants, and the other stuff!"

The first Mayan message decoded said: "Drink more Ovaltine."

A crummy commercial!

Bumpus' Dogs!

"The first Mayan message decoded said: "Drink more Ovaltine.""
It was actually "Dont' forget to drink your Ovaltine" ;-)

The Flat Earth Society has:

Apologetic forums.
Flat Earth Wiki.
Flat Earth Store.
Flat Earth Library.
Flat Earth newsletters and so on.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

Just like Mormon apologetic's the Flat Earth Society uses the same rape of logic and reason.

Consider this particular piece from a Flat Earth convert become defender of delusion and conspiracy and tell me if it doesn’t reek of FAIR and FARMS familiarity.

http://www.earthnotaglobe.com/library/daniel_shenton_flat_earth_essay.pdf

Daniel Shenton and Joseph Allen are two peas from the same pod. If you start with delusion (deliberately so IMO) you end with delusion.

So tell your TBM friend his BOM theories authored by a man who is doing nothing more than espousing his own opinion which is not endorsed by LDS prophets or any respected institutions in the real world any more than that of the Flat Earth Society.

Regardless of the "knowing testimony” of mormons or flat earthers, the BOM peoples will never be real nor the earth be made flat.

Was a whole lot of Happy Valley horse manure... Or maybe it was tapir turds since the Mayas didn't have horses...

Allen is a BYU grad defending the Book of Mormon. Ask your friend to provide some non-Mormon peer review of his claims (start with Michael Coe, and that's as far as I'm going in doing your work for you).

There is absolutely no validity to his claims...

There is a ringing denunciation of Mo claims in Charles C. Mann's "1491", as well. I have no doubt that he had to include it to distance himself from the pinheads at FAIRlds.org who insist on twisting his writing around to fit their warped agenda...

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was a whole lot of Happy Valley horse manure... Or
> maybe it was tapir turds since the Mayas didn't
> have horses...
>
<SNORT!>

;o)

That's way better than DNA evidence.

doesn't mean JS was already familiar with the phrase and just used it to make the text sound more scriptural. riiight.

I would be very surprised if a language did not have a phrase equivalent to "and it came to pass." The major purpose of language is to tell other people about our experiences so they can learn from us and not have to repeat our mistakes. How could you relate a sequence of events without a word or phrase that indicates the order in which the things happened or that something happened? I dare someone to try and write a story about a sequence of events without such words or phrases.

Book of Mormon true.

Long, long ago in a far away land...
Once upon a time their lived a garden fairy...

Go ahead and refer them to Michael Coe's podcast: "An outsiders view of the book of Mormon" Michael is a recognized authority on Mayan archaeology. The podcast completely annihilates any hope that the book of mormon has anything to do with the Mayans or anything else in the new world.

http://mormonstories.org/?p=1880

I've thought about this some more last night and here is what I think i would say to something like this next time.

Interesting. As weak as that is (almost like saying, the bom talks about a dark skinned race and LOOK there were dark-skinned people here!), lets go ahead and add that to the list of possible evidence for the bom.

Now, what else might we expect to find if the bom is true? What evidence would dispute the bom? Is there any?

That is how real science and knowledge work. Your belief scales with the evidence. Very little evidence=very little belief. Contrary evidence found? Your theory is in trouble. Weigh all of it and see just how convincing or unconvincing that piece is with all of the available evidence. We humans have a hard time looking at evidence we don't want to see but if you really want the truth, you have to consider all of the evidence.

Put it in context. As Paul Harvey said: Now for the REST of the story.

"And it came to pass that, I Nephi, did cause the virgin to be carried up to the highest parts of the Rameumptom.
And it came to pass that I Nephi, did cause the virgin's heart to be ripped out of her chest while still alive as a sacrifice to our sun-god.
And it came to pass that I and the high priests did feast upon the heart, and whatsoever body parts we did not need, we auctioned them off to the highest bidder in exchange for coca beans."

See, the church is true!!!

Yummmm....virgin heart fajitas with avocado and a barley salsa on the side; I'd pay good senine for that!