I have been thinking recently about the vast amount of information on the internet that rips apart the foundations of Mormonism. I have found out that Mormonism is a fraud. I didn't finish college, work a blue collar job, and make less then 50k per year. I was able to find out Mormonism was a hoax.

How the heck do white collar professionals not see that TSCC is a fraud? I see so many lawyers, doctors, dentists in the higher echelons of Mormonism... are they stupid or just in complete denial? I just can't comprehend how an educated person can avoid the vast amount of information that contradicts the TSCC narrative of events in this internet age.

Looking at people I know in this situation.
Extremely busy, no time to think.
A huge part of their business is mormon. Employees, clients,peers, financial backers, and so on.
They aren't willing to lose family, friends, clients, supporters, and future business.

And they are probably in high up leadership positions that stroke their ego and give them more access to money, clients, etc. They probably figure the 10% membership fee is woth it.

Oh yeah. That too. I knew I was forgetting something.

Yes, my brother is halfway to being a G.A. and he gets a major part of his enormous ego courtesy of the church.

He is extremely intelligent with doctorate degree,and extremely successful in his profession. But it is clear, that the majority of his self esteem comes from being "holier than thou".

The church is his talent and he has worked hard to perfect it and he isn't going to let it go for anything. He is the type who could never admit he was wrong no matter what evidence was staring him in the face.

I work with a lawyer who is pretty smart. He is TBM. I have tried to get him to think about the obvious problems with the church and he simply won't. He just won't go there.

He has compartmentalized everything in his head. He also has siblings with high church callings with whom he is competing. He is happy not facing up to the possibility that it just might all be a farce. He doesn't seem to want to know the truth.

I believe this is called cognitive dissonance. As per wikipedia: 'The theory of cognitive dissonance in social psychology proposes that people have a motivational drive to reduce dissonance by altering existing cognitions or adding new ones to create consistency.'

It makes sense that the more intelligent a person is the more capable they are of altering or adding cognitions to fit their world view. It's somewhat counter-intuitive, but it makes a lot of sense when you consider all the crazy beliefs (religious or not) that have been promulgated by otherwise intelligent people.

Yes, my TBM lawyer collegues baffle me. Smart men. All of them and yet everything we do - draw conclusions based on facts and evidence and using our brains to think strategically about issues and see the big picture- they just turn it off when it comes to the church. Literally just shut down. I don't get it.

Many of them don't want to lose their a. wives b. parents' love and affection/adoration c. kids, whom they've raised as TBMs

Some people aren't willing to risk losing their family, whereas many of us have taken the risk and in many cases, been shunned, or had damage to our relationships etc. but felt it was worth the risk to follow the truth. Ironic, isn't it.

If they make a lot of money, the 10% tithing isn't a big deal to them, whereas for those of us barely squeaking by, 10% is a big deal.

I remember in a discussion some time back, on this same topic, somebody pointed out that a lot of extremely intelligent people are capable of playing very agile mental mind games with themselves - that's the only way they can deal with all the obvious contradictions.

Or maybe, as another poster pointed out, they just "compartmentalize" stuff that doesn't make sense.

It's professional suicide. Ask me how I know. No, don't ask.

If i was a TBM, tithe paying member, I wouldn't trust any doctor, lawyer, etc. outside my people. It's too scary. Too dangerous to go outside on this one.

compartmentalization & denial: Twins


add family = BINGO!

edit: Lots of professionals are Ego Driven;

that's part of the reason they want/get Trophy Wives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2012 01:33AM by guynoirprivateeye.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

There's the Thomas Ferguson effect. The famous church apologist discovered it was all a fraud after wasting his life and tons of money searching for archeological evidence to prove the BOM true.

In the end, he taught at University of Utah and said he no longer believed but kept his membership because the LDS church was the best brotherhood club ever.


Anagrammy

I agree with many of the comments about intelligent, professional Mormons who choose not to leave the church because they'd developed advanced compartmentalization and rationalization skills and able to engage in mental gymnastics and trick their mind to ignore what is so obvious to others.

It's the classic Matrix "red" pill phenomenah; making the choice between embracing the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue) and the often painful truth of reality (red).

Another observation is that the Mormon Church seems to have very few intellectuals, creatives and artists. They, like professionals, are also highly intelligent, but, my assessment, is that many of the creatives posess poor compartmentalization skills. Living the life of an artist involves living a life full of painful truth and being totally real.

Based on my experience, the more "integrated" you are in your thinking, living and the more empathetic you are, the less likely you have the skills required to live happily the life of an active Mormon.

A never mo friend once made the following observations:

"Mormonism seems to be all about aquiring wealth."

I tend to agree. If this is true, then Mormonism is a natural magnet for professions that emphasize the accumulation of wealth, including Medicine, Law and Finance.

They don't want to know the truth. As someone once said "you can't handle the truth!" Well, that's about it with them. I wondered about that for years too before I came to this conclusion.
Think about the fact that many people with mental illnesses (which cause odd thoughts) are very intelligent people. I think of Mo-ism as a kind of mental illness club for rich delightsome white folks.
Some intelligent people are in Scientology too! Go figure?
I still have never received an answer for why any black person would be in TSCC. Any black TBMs want to share the reason? I don't know that any church or religion could be as racist! What's the deal?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2012 02:48AM by enoughenoch19.

physicians & lawyers are about... 'Solving' other people's problems.

So is Mormonism

accountants are a Bit more pro-active, but certainly on the same specialization level as many Docs & Attys


nwguy (no Known relation) got it: Compartmentalization.

be One Person at the office, another at home, another at Church; sort things out according to their origin, People according to their Status.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2012 03:06AM by guynoirprivateeye.

People pay good money to join networking groups to promote their business. I have a friend who recently told me how successful he has been by doing just that. It's no surprise that professionals have dibs on one of the biggest networking clubs around, the Mormon church.

here is why. Most TBM's that have been members for a long time are conditioned for many years to deflect any bit of criticism about their faith as anti-mormon lies. Once they have decided in their head that anything that comes from a source other than SLC is not true, their thinking is done. They have this very narrowly focused way of thinking that is driven by church authorized materials. Any inconsistencies that they do see are brushed off as "not important details" or "there must be an explanation for that somewhere" or "there are some things we just won't understand until the next life".

Also, I think the time argument is very valid. Professionals that are constantly going at 120mph, between family, church callings/hometeaching/busywork, and their job, simply don't have enough time to do detailed research so they continue on as they have in the past. Why rock the boat when it will upset everything in your life?

I have a PhD from a very respected university. I am a college professor. I was also born and raised in the church and conditioned to follow the Mormon way. By the time I was discovering all of the bad damning stuff about the church (thank you internet!) I was already caught in the Mormon web: married to a tbm spouse, children, lived in a Mormon community, and taught at a LDS college. I seriously considered just staying quiet and playing along because of the family and financial costs of leaving. I personally decided to leave no matter the cost, but I can understand how some educated and intelligent members decide otherwise.

Thomas Paine called it "credulity": to believe whatever they
were taught as a child, for credulity is not a crime, and
that type of personality would any other belief system they
grew up in, be it Muslium. Christian, Jewish Budhaism ...
and to be called stalwart...for the praise of man or money.

all the same susceptabilities to magical thinking and social pressures as anyone else.

I have seen plenty of situations just like the one Hobblecreek mentioned. Leaving the church means hurting others, possible separation from spouse, loss of relationships, etc. I am a dentist and I know a few LDS colleagues who do not believe, but would rather pay their tithing and go through the motions than pay for a divorce and deal with the fallout from that. I have two lawyer friends in the same boat. One of them even posts on these boards....probably during church. My optometrist friend also doesn't believe, but his mother just might kill him if he stops going to church. He has stopped paying a full tithe. WIth time I could see all of these guys completely leaving the church. For me personally, I wanted out now, while my children are young. My wife and I left the church with our two young children last year. There is no way I could go through the motions and feel comfortable with myself. Every mature mormon dentist I know has at least been a bishop and there is no way I could fake it through that calling.

I am a NeverMo internist in a Low-Mo area (Orange County, CA), but the professional ranks of dentists and physicians are sprinkled here and there with Mormons. The trend I see here is that one rarely sees them in specialties with long hours (surgery, internal medicine), and they tend to cluster in fields with more regular hours: general dentistry, orthodontics opththalmology, dermatology, etc. I know of one LDS pediatrician in the area, but he doesn't admit to a hospital. I know of only two LDS MDs (in an area of 1.5 million population) who do extensive hospital work: a urologist, and an Ob-Gyn (the latter has served as Newport Beach SP, and has a brother who is GA). I had a late friend who did Emergency Medicine, but again that fields tends toward regular hours.

If you want an LDS internist in these parts, you're SOL, basically. The bizarre benefit for me is that the word has gotten out in the local stake that I lived in Utah for a semester and know more about LDS culture than an average gentile (though they don't know that I've posted here for a decade). As a result, all but the ultra-TBMs feel comfortable discussing problems with me, because I "understand" the bind into which TBMs are placed, I am supposedly a good listener, and most of all I don't gossip (even before HIPPA, I keep everyone's confidence)---I have even been approached by nurses who are TBM who know that so-and-so is a patient of mine and they are "just checking" because they haven't seen so-and-so at church for some time. (Answer: I am not privy to that information, and would not be at liberty to answer in any event). When patients come in with problems that are triggered by the pressures of being in the TSCC, they know that I don't think they are crazy and that I understand why they feel that way.

PS as my father was a dentist, we were rarely if ever allowed to have candy/ice cream/cakes/cookies at home. Dessert was usually fruit. My best friend in grade school was LDS (the only LDS family in the school), so I attended Primary Movie Nights and a few other activities with him. I never saw a popcorn ball in my life until Primary Movie Night, nor had I ever attended or even HEARD OF an ice cream social before. My parents had coffee and alcohol for guests, but rarely drank and never smoked. So as a seven year old, the main difference between LDS and the rest of us was that LDS allowed junk food like rice krispies treats and popcorn balls. LOL.

Bravo to you and your family for your bravery.

There's a reason why the church tries to get the youth to serve full time missions, attend a church school, marry young and immediately start having children, and require temple recommends to attend your own child's wedding. By your mid twenties many members already feel trapped in the Mormon lifestyle. Without those things the church knows it will likely lose a large number of its young adults.

I didn't have time to read all the responses so sorry if this is a repeat but first of all, just because you have a blue collar job doesn't mean you aren't highly intelligent - more intelligent than many doctors or lawyers in fact. You just have different interests you want to pursue.

Second, most people IMO stay in the church not because of their intelligence but because of their fears. They are afraid of losing their family for eternity, they are afraid of what the neighbors will think, they are afraid their kids will grow up and be wild without a church structure, they are afraid of going to hell... whatever. Fear often overrides intellect. Lots of smart men followed Hitler, Stalin, etc. because they wanted their egos stroked (afraid of failure or being overlooked) or they were afraid of what they would lose if they didn't follow the leader. Mormonism is like that - it's a fear based religion. People don't look at the facts, not because they aren't smart but because they are scared of something. Once they get over that fear, we are able to reach them with the facts. If you never felt that fear, you are able to leave at a much younger age.

Think about it from a mormon cultural slant. Most all of the professionals you are talking about in Morgdom are men. I defy you to go find any meaningful amount of women in those professions that are TBM.

That said, the mormon culture feeds the superiority complex many in those professions have, so there's no need to leave. More power to me!!! Now, Honey, go make me a pie.

Ron

Many were TBM--but MOST (not all) had a broader view of life than most mormons I knew, but I, myself, can't figure out why they believed.

Especially when one who I was especially close to told me--when I asked him to give me reasons to go back to church--he said, "I can't tell you anything except I know it is the right thing to do." A chemist with a master's--huh?

Then when I had some really deep questions about my cousin who died (who was 3 days older than I and had 6 young children)--he said, "Life is a crap shoot. I know the LDS church leaders wouldn't back me up on that."

Still active mormon . . .

None of the above.

Most of them know perfectly well that the Church is fraudulent. They stay in because of three primary reasons:

1. Access to professional resources. (This is a corporation, after all, with highly interconnected businessmen that keep the money flowing. I emphasize businessMEN, not women.)

2. They like the culture. It's familiar. Their families are part of it, as are their friends. Staying in doesn't harm them, except, arguably, for the 10% tithing, but they consider that a membership due in exchange for goods and services provided.

3. Leaving would be highly disruptive. It could lead to divorce, tear their families apart, alienate their parents, and so on. It's easier to stay in.

Staying in is NOT a matter of the truth. Few intelligent Mormons actually believe that the Church is "true." It's obviously false. That's not the point.

People don't join a fraternity because it's "true." On the contrary, it's fun and rewarding in other ways, and in joining, or following in others' footsteps who have joined (e.g. parents, siblings, spouses), they're merely continuing a tradition that has benefited everyone.

Again: It's NOT about truth, but social and financial BENEFIT.

Steve

I have to agree with most of the comments. Egos are stroked with the leadership positions. Business contacts are great and people are held by the balls by their families.

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Professionals aren't necessarily any smarter or dumber than everyone else. I know, I am one. They just have specific skills that have made them successful. Mitt Romney case in point.

I recommend this podcast from John Dehlin entitled "Inside the Mind of an Apologist" if you really want to understand what I mean. The guy chairing the Fair board admits that he only reads history as a hobby, and even then it's always church-approved.

http://mormonstories.org/?p=29

For me it was. I even remember a pivotal moment in a Seminary lesson in which the teacher presented the idea that the pursuit of truth was our primary objective. That really struck home with me, and I was only ever interested in Mormonism to that the degree that it was actually true.

But that's not true for everyone, and it's much more complicated than that. We are so bound to our social groups that it's hard to see the forest for the trees, and we do not see the many ways we are manipulated.

In general most stay with LDS, Inc. for emotional reasons. It's when it stops meeting emotional needs that they move on.

RfMers I think are more tied to truth-seeking than your average joe mormon, but even still many our pivotal moments were rooted in an emotions and not rational thinking.

gracewarrior I have a poser for you: what about the academics who are Mormons? I know a guy who teaches PoliSci and Economics and he seems very contented within the church even though he HAS to know what's going on, because he has the training. However, he is an adult convert, so he missed all the mind-warping stuff that happened to the born Mormons. He never brings up his faith, and I avoid the subject.

First of all, all religion is basically God Myths. Secondly, it's never based on evidence that can be validated. Those are metaphysical, supernatural claims. The Bible gets some credibility as those stories were told around some still standing places. The BOM doesn't have that.

The main point, I think people stick with their religion is that it's their generational heritage, home, family, social support system,etc., in essence their tribe. People don't leave that kind of system easily.

I think we need to stop assuming that some factual evidences have anything to do with why people have a spiritual witness of the claims or not. They don't.

Brilliant people can have a spiritual witness of some religious belief.

Never, ever forget the power of the spiritual, supernatural, metaphysical, life after death claims of angels, ghosts, etc. Those are so well established in almost all of our cultures, they cannot be easily erased.
The need of humans to believe in a deity and.or savior is also well established.

My point is to respect everyone's RIGHT to believe anything they find worthwhile, live their lives as they choose. Treat people the way we want to be treated. It's a personal right of choice to have religion in one's life, a belief in God is so prevalent, it's covered in a book called: The God Part of the Brain.

There is a lot of comfort and beauty in the religious beliefs and rituals. They are so much a part of our culture they dominate many of our traditions and holidays.

I say: enjoy them.

Families have been teaching their brand of religious belief to their children forever and that will not stop.
That is not brainwashing, that's teaching a World View that they respect and honor.

"Ni la maestria ni el doctorado te quita lo pendejo!" ;-)