I have a 13 year old stepdaughter that's a serious narcissist. In seeing her and her narcissism, I began comparing the same traits to the church and how it operates. Here's some of the key traits of narcissism:

Shamelessness - Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.

Magical Thinking - Narcissists see themselves as perfect using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.

Arrogance - If a narcissist is feeling deflated, s/he can reinflate him/herself by diminishing, debasing or degrading somebody else.

Envy - If the narcissist's need to secure a sense of superiority meets an obstacle because of somebody else, s/he neutralises it using contempt to minimise the other person's ability

Entitlement - Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves uniquely special. Any failure to comply will be considered an attack on their superiority and the perpetrator is considered to be an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.

Exploitation - can take many forms but always involves the using of others without regards for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.

Bad Boundaries - narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist will be treated as if they are part of the narcissist and be expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist, there is no boundary between self and other.

Notice how the church is very narcissistic as well?

My husband has two TBM estranged teenaged daughters who haven't spoken to him in years. One of them is almost 17 and has a blog... It's mostly about her Mormonism and lust for missionaries and it really shows how narcissistic she is. I've only looked at the blog once because I can't bear to read it, but my husband keeps up with it. It's the only way he can find out how his kids are doing.

Since they don't love themselves, and by extension can't love another, they live to satisy their ego needs, which in a cultic religion like mormonism, one can feed the ego in a superiority richeous way.

Narcissist leaders recognize other narcissists, and will call other narcissists to leadership positions. That leader will also respond to butt kissing (they love to be admired).

They absolutely lack empathy, that is why the church hurts so many of its members and doesn't care one bit. They love to use everyone for the benifit of mormonism at the members expense.

"Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and The Book of Mormon" by Robert D Anderson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2010 11:00AM by WiserWomanNow.

...is a direct reflection of Joseph Smith, who IMO is about as textbook an example as you can get of a narcissist. He begat a narcissistic religion.

Sometimes I think that you can judge a religion by the people in leadership positions who best exemplify the values of each religion. Two thousand years after Jesus walked the Earth, we had Mother Theresa ministering to the poor of Calcutta, India in his name. Twenty-four hundred years after Gautama Buddha achieved the state of satori, or enlightenment (complete extinguishment of the ego, the polar opposite of narcissim,) His Holiness the Dali Lama is respected worldwide as a powerful advocate for peace. As many as four thousand years after the origin of Hinduism, the native belief of the people of India, we had Mohandas Ghandi exemplifying its ideals of compassion and non-violence. Ghandi in turn deeply influenced Martin Luther King, who was a powerful advocate for racial equality.

Which great leader of Mormonism advocates (or has advocated) for peace, tolerance, understanding, forgiveness, inclusiveness, love, hope, charity, equality, service, justice, wise use of resources, protection of the weak, and so on *because those things represent the core values of his or her religion*?

Instead you get: Courts of love, disfellowshipping, shunning, intolerance, lack of accountability, draining members of their time and resources, etc.

WOW, Summer. Excellent post. Thank you.

True that. By their fruits you shall know them.

Anyone heard of that guy in Brazil called John of God? At least that guy doesn't charge for his scams.

DAMN RIGHT! MORmONISM isreally about being better than others via MORmON BS! thats why MORmONS cling to MORmONISM'S bogus superlatives! its not about principles because MORmONS dont really have any other than just being a MORmON!

It is also the Tea Party to a "t".

Much easier to just crank up the drama churn and let the histrionics do the rest...

Okay, they learned that stuff in their dysfunctional upbringings...

And it came from homes with excessive religious control, secrets including addictions or various forms of abue, or rigid military rules (including Mormon patriarchal type control with women molded into subservient, über passive-aggressive types).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 01:58AM by SL Cabbie.

Narcissistic tendencies are entirely expected in such an age group; the problem with Mormonism is it persists into adulthood and beyond...

The key is providing boundaries and resistance, i.e. standing up to them (often by simply saying "no," apologies to the anti-Nancy R.'s out there). And give them time to "change their mind" when limits are set; expecting "instant compliance" is a quick shortcut to heartache and exacerbating the problem...

Of course, to borrow my BIL's saying for this one, "Easy to coach, hard to play."

Y'all be ready to toss my advice back at me in a few years, okay? My daughter hasn't quite hit the teen years...

And finally, a Cabbie kudo to 6 iron for that hole-in-one on how narcissistic tendencies in leadership are concentrated and poison an entire system from the top down...

There exists a chemistry between them that involves a lot of "closed system mirroring"; outside information can be perceived as threatening and is often viciously suppressed...

And that goes for organizations besides LDS, Inc. Anybody else see Michael Moore on "Countdown" last night?

I think teens can be extremely self-centered. But I wouldn't go so far as to label them narcissists.

I believe I've known a couple of adult narcissists, and the difference between them and a normal teenager is that if someone has the actual personality disorder, they are NOT going to recognize there is a problem (except with YOU) and they almost NEVER change (because THEY aren't the problem). If you call them on their behavior, you can expect a good emotional thrashing and they'll NEVER apologize (probably, they'll pretend like it never happened or that YOU thrashed THEM). They leave a trail of emotional destruction, and most people don't even know what happened.

On the other hand, it's usually just a phase with teenager. There will be some rough times, but they'll get over it. They just need some parental guidance, behavioral expectations, boundaries, and I think the kids at school also give them a big reality check when they get too full of themselves.

imaworkinonit

Thanks for the following:

'I believe I've known a couple of adult narcissists, and the difference between them and a normal teenager is that if someone has the actual personality disorder, they are NOT going to recognize there is a problem (except with YOU) and they almost NEVER change (because THEY aren't the problem). If you call them on their behavior, you can expect a good emotional thrashing and they'll NEVER apologize (probably, they'll pretend like it never happened or that YOU thrashed THEM). They leave a trail of emotional destruction, and most people don't even know what happened.'

This describes succinctly my experience of my ex bf. He has managed to get others to contiune the 'emotional thrashing'. I couldn't quite work out why I called the group the 'cult of. xxx.' All too clear now that I was spot on in my estimation.

Interesting.

Both comments about the supposedly narcicisstic teens came from their step-mothers.
Nothing like living up to stereotype LOL.

Bet those teens could tell a few tales too.

Think twice before blending families,too often it does not work out.

I have only met my stepdaughters once. It was in 2003 for a visit that lasted less than 48 hours. After that visit, their mother (who has never met me in person) determined that I was too bad of an influence because I'm a nevermo. So no, they don't have any "stories" about me. They haven't spent enough time with me to have any stories.

In the course of their one visit with us, the older stepdaughter, who was almost twelve, gave me a hug and called me her other mother. The other one, who was nine years old, slapped my husband across the face for having beer in the house. Not long after that, she started refusing to talk to him on the phone. Her sister followed suit a few months later.

A couple of years after that, the girls sent hateful letters to my husband demanding that he give them up for adoption to their current stepfather (ex's husband #3). The younger one-- the one who has a blog-- sent a letter that was absolutely heartless and sounded just like it came from her mother, who really IS a narcissist. By the way, my husband refused to give them up and still faithfully takes care of his responsibilities toward them even though they have cut off all communication with him and refer to him by his first name. They also cut off their grandparents, which was even more senseless and heartbreaking.

So that's how I base my assessment of my husband's younger daughter... It's true that she is a teenager and most teenagers are self-centered, but her behavior is beyond the pale and at this point doesn't seem to be changing for the better.

Not all stepmothers are evil. Had I been given half a chance, I would have tried my best to make things work out with my husband's kids. But short of walking away from their father, who is the love of my life, there is nothing that I could have done to have changed this situation. Thankfully, my husband and I have a happy marriage despite them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2010 09:19AM by knotheadusc.

I am not a step-mother but I do have 7 daughters. My first 5 daughters might have given me a bit of angst (2 of the 5 never did) but they were never narcisstic. Just very typical teenage behavior. But # 6 daughter....the nose job daughter...wow. She is now 21 and still doesn't get how cruel she is,mostly to me,and how she really isn't the only 21 year old out there. She just sent me a long e-mail (first communication we've had in 4 months) and I had to read it 3 times to get what she was trying to say. Of course it was all about her and how awesome she is and she isn't mad at me anymore-(wth-I didn't know I had done anything to make her mad.)Just a very strange letter,and I don't know how to respond. She really is mean spirited to most everyone,but saves the best for me and my 7 year old dd.

The criteria/symptoms of NPD are:

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance.
2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty...
3. Believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. Rarely acknowledges mistakes and/or imperfections
5. Requires excessive admiration
6. Has a sense of entitlement
7. Is interpersonally exploitative
8. Lacks empathy: is unwilling or unable to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
9. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
10. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.


Exemplified in Moism very easily.

1-nothing more grandiose that being a god in embryo except being god.
2-see 1, and think of the prophecies that mormons will save the day, rule the world in the millenium, etc.
3-members of the only troo church, valiance in the pre-existence, special lineages, heritages, etc
4-perfectionism is rampant in the culture
5-Mos do seem to like getting complimented on their perfect families, jobs, status, etc.
6-entitled as priests and priestesses, gods and godesses.
7-the only reason to have friends outside the exclusive mo clubs is to get praise for being a member-missionary
8-intolerance is extremely high among mos. they preach charity but don't actually understand it.
9-see 4, always worried about how the world sees them, but not so much that they'll start being like the rest.
10-they're numero uno and true.

I corresponded with a man by email for awhile. He was a good person, but he was a narcissist. He tried to tell me about his religious ideas, which were pretty eccentric, even for believers. I said in an email that I was an atheist. In his reply he said, "You are not an atheist." As a narcissist he thought he owned my beliefs, and he couldn't distinguish between my beliefs and his own.

Somebody who is not a narcissist would probably have said something like, "Why are you an atheist?", "Tell me more about why you feel that way," or "That's interesting; let's have a debate on our beliefs". Instead this man was putting words into my mouth. He was not even open to a debate. His word was the truth, and that was it. He condescendingly told me that it was okay if I was an atheist; he would still be my "friend."

His narcissism showed up in other ways. I wanted to discuss some personal limitations, and he didn't say, "Tell me more about that." He just replied with the idea that personal limitations don't exist, and that the only limitations we have are self imposed.

When we finally stopped emailing each other, he was the one who broke off communication. He said that he would only email me again if I was willing to listen to his religious ideas, and if I was willing to not question them. He did not say, "Email me some time if something good happens to you," or "Contact me a year from now so we can touch bases." He would only email me if I would be a passive listener.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2010 07:00PM by behindcurtain.

Just because, men think that women would worship them and their heavenly father, godly cock, siring a race, and being a cosmic space God........, and holding the keys to the universe... nah..... nothing narcissistic about that.... what are you talking about?

Every Mormon man believes that he will become a god. I don't think you can get more narcissistic than that. A god? Over whom? Why would Norman of the elder's quorum be given absolute power?

Here's the rub: you have to be obedient. You must obey the narcissist ahead of you in line. Dog eat dog, that's real Mormonism.

Wow- that was great-super explanations.....may want to expand on each and write a book. I had a man like that for 35 yrs- dating, engagement and marriage. He fits it all. I can see that the LDS church is just like your descriptions.

I worry about labelling a thirteen year old as a narcissist. As a few others have noted, many teenagers seem to be narcissists. In reality, their frontal lobes are not fully developed and, as a result, they do not exercise the best of judgement, nor do they have fully developed empathy.

It is most likely that your teenager, simply needs clear cut boundaries, a lot of follow through and a quick call out on their behaviour. As you are the step parent it is up to the teen's biological parents to do the parenting. A lot of the seeming narcissistic behaviour comes with the child's ultimate confusion over the situation they are in. Too often, we expect that children will think like little adults. They don't. Are they manipulative? Yes, all children are.

I fear that branding someone so young as a narcissist may be doing much more harm than good.

BTW, I have a teen of my own.

If you think that everything you do must be, of necessity, GOD'S WILL.

If you are fully convinced (and convince those following you) that you truly are a "Prophet, Seer and Revelator", then you fit all the criteria for narcissism listed above.

The following is what you must always say to yourself:

"It isn't just a matter of having a testimony of the Mormon church, I must also have a testimony of MYSELF: God will let me do no wrong. Otherwise the church is false -- and that is impossible!"

narcicistic people can masquerade by showing some loving behaviors/characteristics...

being sexually active comes to mind; I used to think that only Loving people (women) could be s.a.

OTOH, being a loving person often isn't easily described or identified either, is it?