One of the biggest problems I have with the LDS church currently (historical problems aside) is the fact that they don't reveal their finances. They won't disclose how much they take in with tithing/donations and won't disclose by line item how this money is spent. Most charities and non-profits release financial statements. But not the LDS Church!

WHY THE SECRECY?

They claim they don't do anything in secret, but they are with their BILLIONS of dollars.

What's there to hide?

In my innocent little mind I would think that if this truly was the Lord's true church and he was running it, that the financial statements would be open for all to see. Only "corrupt churches" like Televangelists begging for money don't reveal these things unlike the "true" church.

Have you ever mentioned to a TBM this fact? What was their response?

But, but, but, they have a low ranking GA get up every April and tell us that he has audited the church records and they are OK, and that there is no reason for anyone to worry, so they don't need to look at them. Surely if that doesn't satisfy your concern, then I don't know what would.

My brother has told me many times the church has been audited and it has passed with flying colors. Funny thing is, I have never seen these reports or the details to them. However, I can read financial balance sheets of all kinds of For Profit organzations when I trade stocks.

He also told me a long time ago that there is a conspiracy in the sciences to discredit the church by bringing forth bogus claims like languages and animal findings and chronological dating.

LOL

Still doesn't answer why they won't release their financial statements.

they don't want people to know.

people would want to participate in decision-making,
that's a BIG NO-NO in Morland.

This was one of the issues I had raised with my ex. Of course her response was she trusted what the GAs were doing with the money.

As a paid employee of the Lutheran church, all local members know my salary because they got to vote on it. It is also reported in the budget records. Everything down to how much is spent on paper products for the women's luncheons is reported. Even the synod's budget report is available online.

I would hate to be in that situation. I was a low ranking manager a few years back for an HOA, and half my job was taken up by oldsters angry that they found out I was making six hundred dollars a week. They felt that four hundred was far more fair, and that the people working for me should only make minimum wage. The middle aged crowd all thought I was underpaid.

The law is about to change here for churches: they will have to charge sales tax on their commercial activities.

A couple of minutes ago, some Mormon douchebag twittered: "no problem for us, the mormon church has no commercial interests".

I think he might just believe that, the fool...

The question to ask TBM's is, WHY DON'T THEY RELEASE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS?

Because most TBMs don't really care. If they did they wouldn't be TBMs.

When I was a ward finance clerk, I was having a conversation with the ward clerk who happened to be an accountant. He was talking to me about a business that he works for and how they always require a 3rd party independent audit of his work for each tax year. When he told me about that, I said that's funny, why doesn't the church do that. He gave me some hokey explanation that the church's auditing team are ALMOST independent of the church and that they can still do a high quality financial audit--Yeah, Right.

This was the first definable detail that I struggled with...

In my mind I tried to come up with all kinds of justifications. In the end (even as a still believing mormon) I decided that it was wrong, simply on the grounds of "avoid even the appearance of evil".

The funny thing is, if TSCC had made their financial records easily available to its members I probably would not have started the search for information that led me to discover everything else.

The GC financial report is one of the more Orwellian practices in the LDS faith (quite an achievement).

The guy--I don't recall a woman auditor ever doing this--gets up and assures the faithful that all church funds have been expended in accordance with established church procedures. I have a couple beefs with this.

1. Does this guy mean to tell me that over the course of decades this multibillion dollar organization has not had any significant waste, fraud or abuse? That's hard to believe, but so are seer stones in a hat.

2. What are those established procedures? Does a "modest stipend" transferred to Thomas Monson's bank account constitute established procedure? Well, it does if Mr. Monson says it does. It's a corporation sole. Whatever he decides is proper, is proper. Nobody needs to know. It's sacred not secret don't you know.

Isn't it wonderful, isn't it marvelous.

3. When the subject comes up with pesky reporters: duck, dodge and weave. A reporter with the German TV network, ZDF, actually did his homework and asked Gordon Hinckley about this subject. Hinckley said that this information should be reserved for those who make the contributions. I don't know how much Burger King stock you have to give to see it, but I never saw that information--and I bet none of you did either.

Let's just say it. He lied. What a surprise!

4. I asked my mother what she thought of the non-disclosure, thinking that the crimp in the family budget might bother her. Nope. She just said she was busy worrying about raising kids and didn't have time to be concerned with that.

Forget the auditors, why can't they show the members the financial statements?

What if you couldn't get a tax deduction when donating to any organization whose finances were not open for public review?

Yeah - I LIKE that idea.

or at least not much. Because the FIRST people to brag about their good works are Mormons. Exhibit One: I'm a Mormon ads. Exhibit Two: Mormon Helping Hands tee-shirts Exhibit Three: Missionaries dressing so distinctively you can't help but notice their "good works". Exhibit Four: The constant emphasis on setting a good example for the church. And so on.


If they were doing the immense amount of good in the world they wanted us to think they were, they would broadcast the proof of their good works loud and clear. The fact they are hiding how they spend their money is very telling of this one fact.

I think that part of it may be their investment decisions. Seriously.

Real prophets, seers, and revelators should make some pretty solid investment decisions and get spectacular returns. On the other hand, ordinary people would get ordinary returns. Do you think that the church's returns are probably spectacular, or are they probably ordinary?

What if their returns are poor? How would the Brethren explain that to the members?

Here's the answer I always get: "Nunya".

They reason that if it was public, then somebody would find a way to criticize it. Well... duh!

Ron

I recall a while ago someone looked at census data for Utah, which should be freely available, at least for Utahns (I am not one). IIRC he got a random sample of anonymized data large enough to extrapolate to the population with reasonable confidence. Not sure what his actual research was about, but he also had a casual look at clergy and what they were paid. His two main findings were:

1. Utah has a much higher number of persons with the occupation 'clergy' than other states.
2. Those clergy have very comfortable incomes compared to other Utahns.

I can't remember the specific details. Maybe this will jog someones memory.

Better yet - any students on the board with access to Utah census data?


I was just thinking about this recently when a local (NZ) radio station was discussing Mitt Romney and his religion, and a rabid-sounding fellow rang in and declared that not one mormon leader at all, from the prophet down, received any income whatsoever. The host clearly didn't believe the guy and it got dragged out over several minutes.