I grew up not being taught anything about the darker aspects of Joseph Smith's character. I didn't know about his treasure digging. I didn't know about the teenage brides. I didn't know about the polyandry. I didn't know about the significant evidence that his powers of translating were bogus (book of abraham, kinderhook, etc)

I served a mission and as a result spread these lies on to other people. I fulfilled many church callings, donated thousands of hours of my time and money. I committed myself to a path that was built upon lies. To discover the truth mid-life has caused enormous disruption in my life that I'm still sorting through today.

My anger isn't directed towards the church so much as it is toward the people who introduced this BS into my life: my parents. The same people who now pity and patronize me for having "lost my way" and being "deceived by Satan."

I believe in informed consent. I would have never chosen this life if I had been presented with the facts. The people who were supposed to watch out for me, handed this responsibility over to an organization that clearly didn't have my best interests at heart.

I'm angry and at the very least, I think I'm owed an explanation. How pathetic is that?

Not pathetic just normal reflex. I don't know the story about your parent, but were they not lied to as well?
In any case, you have proven that you were able to find the truth about those lies while you were immersed in them. And you seem to have shown that you were strong enough to make decisions according to that knowledge. I'm sorry about everything you're going through. People on this forum totaly understand and feel for you. I hope things get better and meanwhile I wish you strenght to get through all this.

My kids who are in their 20's also learned about the church just like you. They didn't know anything about the dark side until last October when I found it on google.

If I had know sooner I would have told them sooner. I'm 58 and just found out for myself. My parents are in their 80's and still don't know. They have served 9 senior missions and raised 6 kids in the church.

I hold church leadership responsible. They have done a pretty good job convincing members to stick to church only info. They have made huge efforts to hide and lie about history. They still are.

When i was younger I had no way that I know of to find out this information. The internet has changed all that. Even if I would have ran across a book, I would have been told it was all lies. I wouldn't have had any group of people to talk to that could verify my findings. Once again, the internet has changed that.

The older you are, the longer you've been indoctrinated, the more difficult it is to consider you have been so wrong about something that is such a huge part of your life. Finding out about this at my age was quite a shock. I'm mad as hell. I can't say anything to my siblings and parents , they just don't believe it. They will have to figure it out in their own way in their own time.

You only have charge over you. Learn what you can. Know your subject well. And wait for the right time, place, and person to share it with.

I wouldn't bother. I'd leave it alone. If it's their heritage and chosen belief system, it's important to them probably on a very spiritual sacred level.

We all do the best we can with the information we have at the time. When we get new information that rises to the level of making a change, we often do just that.

I think it's important to understand that Mormonism is very much about an established heritage, traditions, culture, family, etc. It's core is the same as most religions.

Religion is not so much about a certain set of facts, in general, it's more about a belief in what the believers think God wants for them. It's sacred, spiritual. That is almost always based on metaphysical, supernatural, visionary claims of some sort. It's the God Myth -- and how it has developed throughout the history of humanity to fit dozens and dozens if different groups of people.

I don't expend an ounce of energy on any negative feelings/emotions about the choices in religion that others make. That is their choice, their life. I respect and honor those choices as their RIGHTS.

I don't think there is a religion anywhere that tells anything other than it's own subjective truth. That is how it works.

It's important to remember, also that there never was any need nor is there now a need for actual artifacts such as golden plates/ ancient records for the belief in them to exist. Never, ever discount the immense power of the spiritual witness - or what people claim they see with their "spiritual eye." It is more powerful and more credible to the believers than any set of facts or lack of them.

Nothing pathetic about it. It's passionate, and sometimes passion comes with a price.

Your post is an exquisitely honest product of your journey out of the cult. It is hard to believe that is wouldn't cause some serious introspection in your parents were they to read it, but I am afraid you might be in the same boat as what Mia just described with her family and the way I know it is with my family. Once you are an apostate, your opinion does not count on the subject. Period. You are lucky if they even want to hear your take on the weather once you are an apostate.

They aren't ready to hear it. You can say it, you can write it, but you have to be prepared for whatever consequence it will bring.

It helped me to discover RFM and realize that you are part of an exclusive little club that realizes, you can't deliver a package through a locked door.

Your parents are part of a cult. They know not what they do.

I have quite a bit of guilt surrounding this because I raised my children the way you were raised, up until my oldest was 14, when I finally had the courage to admit that I no longer subscribed to Joseph's Myth, for reasons I explained, clearly, logically and honestly.

His response at the time was, "Well Dad, if that's the way you feel about Joseph's Myth, then why do you still pretend like you believe by going to church with us?"

I had to admit that he was right. I shook my head and said, "You're right Son, I need to have the courage of my convictions. I need to start living my life with integrity."

So that was the encouragement I needed really to confront the challenges that laid ahead for me, the threats against me for telling the truth, for exercising my right to the freedom of speech, which has predictable consequences.

I was living under a threat from my wife, who had given me the ultimatum, "You share any of these doubts with the kids, I'm gone. So you have a choice, either me or your doubts." and from my Bishop, "You share any of these doubts with other Mormons and I'll have to discipline you."
"Even my wife and kids?"
"Especially your wife and kids."
He had my resignation letter the next day. Nobody tells me I can't be honest with my kids. He and anybody else who tells me that can go straight to hell for all I'm concerned. What kind of a human being tells another man he can't be honest with his partner, his wife, his own kids? Not any man who deserves my respect. Screw him. Screw everything he represents.
Now, I'm not gonna lie, I'm not on speaking terms with my TBM MIL, because I turned her sweet, virginal, little Mormon Daughter into a little slut, which is what I love about her most, haha!

So I guess my best advice to you boils down to this,

In tricky situations like these, I have found it best to really determine what it is that I want, then to go after it with everything I've got, to achieve that outcome. But first make sure your intents are noble, that way you can always take the high road. Even if it turns out you were wrong in the end, at least you will have made decisions with integrity, with good intent, that were logical and empathetic.
Now, go fast, think faster and never look back!
Life turns out fine in the end. The end of the story is, we survive and as long as we survive, we thrive and as long as we thrive, we keep on evolving. Always evolve or die.
Never look back.
Lop off the rotten limb of Joseph's Myth from your family tree and fill in the void with something real, honest, true and good. It's not hard to find. Look around you, its everywhere you look. And where it isn't beautiful, true and honest, destroy it. Cut it out of your life and keep what matters, the fuel, the energy, the dynamic that animates you.

Bravo! That is one of the most inspiring things I've read on RFM.

blueorchid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bravo! That is one of the most inspiring things
> I've read on RFM.


Indeed, Brilliant!

I would add that your parents are victims too. They don't owe you an explanation. They are giving you their world view, teaching you what they live. This is what children all get--their parents' window to the world.

Once you grow up, you can examine what they taught you and reject it if you want.

Your parents gave you the best they had. If you handle yourself well, you can be the example that makes them question whether apostates really are under the control of Satan. Because they see you living a full, rich, happy life. You aren't a drunk, a drug addict, a whore, a criminal. You still have the values they taught you--the values that matter: kindness toward others, respect for people's rights, etc.

If you did flame out after realizing you were deceived, it isn't the end of the world. You can always earn back their respect and maybe even make them question their own judgmentalism.

You know, people are more important than their tithing, more important than what they believe. Your parents are just doing their best. Love your parents the best you can--they will all too soon be gone and you will be dealing with painful, painful regrets.

Anagrammy

What an inspiring post!! It reminds me of the Whitney Houston song that goes..."learning to love yourself, it is the greatest love of all."

As much as we are in this world with close connections to family and friends, the first and most important thing is to be true to yourself, and to be proud and unashamed of your beliefs and values.

And remember, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

I tend to agree with everyone else that it won't do any good. Their minds are made up; facts, logic, and the truth are not going to convince them otherwise.

However, you say that they patronize you for having "lost your way." Next time that happens, hit them with everything you've got. Like I said, you're not going to change their minds at all. But they'll think carefully next time they try to save your soul, or whatever the hell it is they think they're doing.

I've used this strategy to great effect with friends and family. I'll respect their beliefs if they respect mine. But a lot of them have learned the hard way that if they cross the line with me I'll hit them back HARD with everything I've got. They try that once! After that we either avoid the topic of religion, or the frinedship ends.

Their explanation is simple.

They don't know any of those things and they believe it. As a parent they were trying to teach you what they believed to be the truth and the best path to a happy life.

They were wrong.

Your anger is displaced.

I'm not saying it isn't natural to feel angry and frustrated with them, but they were just doing the best they knew how with what they believed.

If you have kids you will pass your beliefs and values on to them too - even if what you believe and value is having an open mind. Some of those beliefs will end up not to be correct.

I cannot believe that they knew about and understood all the lies and coverups of the church founders and the current church leaders. Its not like your parents were aware of all that bad s**t and then decided to raise you in the church anyway.

The one person that you don't seem to be holding responsible is yourself. It was possible for you to leave the cult at a much earlier age.

I was BIC and raised in the standard LDS way. But at age 13 I used my logic and reasoning to figure out that the church is based on unverifiable magic. The scientific method cannot be used to evaluate any part of religion. So my own rational logic told me that the church flunked the "reasonableness" test and therefore was not anything I wanted to associate with.

Since I was living at home with TBM parents it took me another four years, to age 17, before I was able to cut my ties with the church. I didn't want to get thrown out on the streets at age 17 (or younger) because I wouldn't have been able to support myself.

Because I was otherwise a responsible person my parents were kind enough to provide me with room and board while I attended college, which I paid for myself by working a summer job.

By cutting my ties with the church and ceasing to attend meetings at age 17, I did not go on a mission, did not pay tithing, did not get married in the temple, and did not waste half my life (or more) as a morgbot. That was all possible because at age 13 I refused to believe in magic.

So while I understand the frustration of people who didn't figure out that the CoJCoLDS is a scam until they were age 40 or older, I think that the lion's share of the blame is on their own shoulders.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2012 05:27PM by saviorself.

at my parents. It's natural, but it can easily become self destructive.

I'm a much happier person since I decided to just be grateful that I was lucky enough to get parents who kept me warm, safe and fed. Most kids aren't so fortunate. Being pissy because I didn't get special super parents was as irrational as being, say, religious. It took me some time to get here, but I don't want to go back to being angry.

That doesn't mean you have to take any insults from them however.

There is a common question that comes from TBM's when they learn of our unbelief. "What do you believe in now?"

Truly, I can not think of a better comeback than this.

"I believe in informed consent." It says everything.

I hate to hijack a thread, but...

what do you do with parents who know all the history as well as the modern issues and are still TBM. My parents knew, in depth, all of the problems that are discussed on RFM but they are true, true believers. They know that they have to "compartmentalize" but they do it because they believe that their life has been blessed because of remaining faithful.

Yet, they had the audacity to raise me mormon and then shun me for leaving. They are anti-mormon mormons.

Anger is an understatement. I probably need thousands of dollars of therapy, but aside from that... Any advice?

That's a tough one.

Try reading this maybe?
http://www.michaelshermer.com/weird-things/excerpt/

wow. At least i can say my parents are safely in the dark, and happy to be there.

I'd be a lot angrier if they knew the truth and ignored it.
I can't understand how people do that.
I'm glad you have someplace to go so you can vent. It would be awful to be alone with this circumstance. I hope you can someday get to the point of apathy about the whole situation. That has been my goal. That's when I will really be free.

I'm not sure you've set the right goal Mia. I'm having trouble seeing apathy in your future.

I see a lot of fire in your posts that I don't think are going to burn down to just smoldering coals for a very long time.

I have not reached apathy either, obviously, but with regards to my family and the church--most of the time---it now gives me a good laugh. I get a lot of good cocktail conversation out of it all now. I like being there.

Haha. You're right. I've only been out since November though. Give me some time.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes me. Years? months? maybe never? I don't know.

I'm determined to be happy about where I am (even tho po'd)
I've missed out on enough. Don't want to waste any time I don't have to. I do know it's a process that's going to work it's way.

It's pretty similar to the feelings and process I had during divorce. You never forget, but you can move on. Knowing that makes this easier somehow.

In a similar vein, what do you make of parents who decried "anti-mormon" lies about JS taking plural underage women. Claiming this was a smear, and that the prophet would never do anything so immoral.

Then when this is confirmed through church sources, it becomes a matter of "context".

Come on - if it was disgusting when anti-mormons said it, surely it is just as disgusting when LDS admit it.

I don't understand it. This is indeed a cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2012 07:31PM by spanner.

It's not pathetic at all. I felt the same way when I found the truth. But, like other posters stated, your parents didn't (and probably still don't) know all or any of the dark sides to Mormonism.

When I decided to leave the church my parents were infuriated and said I was being fooled by anti-Mormon literature. When I presented them with 50 pages of notes proving the church was false, they shredded every single page without looking at it. They choose to remain ignorant of the history of their belief.

I was furious that they wouldn't even look at or consider the arguments put in front of them. Eventually we all calmed down and now we don't talk about religion at all. It's worked out well for almost 10 years now and our relationship is good. There are days that I can't believe how blind they are (i.e. when they go clean the church), but I keep my mouth shut even when it's hard. And they do the same. Mutual respect and the biting of tongues goes a long way.

Thanks Ronas for the Shermer link, I ordered the believing brain book. The whole situation is... gruesome and devastating.

Interestingly one of the main reasons I decided that I needed to come out with my unbelief was the thought that maybe someday one of my kids would doubt and that I owed it to them to make my beliefs known. This thread definitely reinforces that it was an excellent reason.

You should pity your parents for believing this nonsense, not demonize them.

Were they brought up in the church? If so, they were exposed to the same bullshit as you were.

One day not many months ago i realized i had NEVER ever heard why they became mormon. If they had ever shared their testimony, it was years ago and i don't remember. i wanted to know that they didn't join just for a social group, or to please a missionary. That they were also deceived, honestly. Why, of all the people on the street that DIDN'T join the church or listen to the missionaries, why did they show interest enough to get baptised?

I didn't think i'd get an honest answer from them now that don't believe (you know, don't cast pearls before swine stuff) so i asked my sibs if they ever heard of a testimony experience that was the reason they joined. And one of my bro's had been told a testimony story.

so i was able to let it go. Like another poster said, i stayed when i could have done some searching too, as an adult, so i could understand being deceived.

Maybe that could help you?

Before you ask for an apology/explanation from your parents, please find out somehow if they knew the truth and didn't tell you or knowingly passed on lies to you. That would make a big difference to me. Deliberately lying to your children is mean. Telling them a lie without knowing it is a lie is still not the best situation but it is not deliberately mean.
Once you find out, then make a decision. If you find out they did know and lied to you anyway then YES, find out why they lied to you. You deserve to know.

....and if it was because I was "offended" (like so many TBMs speculate).....

My answer would be: DAMN RIGHT I'M OFFENDED. You lied to me about almost everything, even if you didn't know it.

I don't like being lied to, and neither should you.

You don't need to justify them.

Having said that, it's helpful to remember that the information age is a relatively recent phenomenon. Before the rise of the internet (figure late 1990's for most people,) it was much harder to get accurate information about the church.

Also, most American families were church-going up through the 1960's and later. It was just what people did. You were raised in a church and you went to that church just as your parents did. Very few people questioned it and walked away.

Mormons don't always intentionally lie. They just pass on lies that they believe to be true. And many Mormons who are exposed to the truth won't accept it. They'll ignore it, rationalize it, or reject it, because it doesn't fit their paradigm --it does not compute. Were you ever guilty of passing on lies to someone? Of course you feel devastated and bitter about being deceived, but hopefully in time you can turn that into celebration. You've learned the truth (and accepted it) and now you're free! Yours is a story that exmormons love to hear!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2012 11:50PM by canadianfriend.

I agree with yin 100 percent. Your parents (and all Mormons) should have to account for these egregious offences. Why should children be abused by those who believe the lies of the freak Joseph Smith? Mormonism is a sickness that is passed on generation after generation. It must be stopped.

Regardless of whether or not there was lying, there's so much more to confront your parents about. Your parents allowed you to be sex- and masturbation- shamed by adults that weren't trusted family members. Your parents allowed you to be taught in closed room classrooms with adult teachers that didn't have background checks. Your parents allowed you to listen to anti-coffee propaganda, women-walking-pornography propaganda, and anti-intelligence propaganda. That's just as bad.

They womt give you one because they believe it is all true. Any time one of those "touchy" subjects has been broached, my parents say "that is anti mormon lies, taking truths and twisting them to make the mormons look bad." You will not get an explination.

It could easily sound like, "Why didn't you predict when I was a child that I would grow up to be unhappy with the church and adjust your life so as that wouldn't happen?" The great thing about being an adult is you can make the choices *you* want to, and, being adults also, your parents get to do the same. By demanding an explanation for their not doing something different you are saying essentially you still depend on their decisions.