the City Creek Mall because of all the money the Church has put into it. But I LOVE the mall for multiple reasons. First, we all know the church has never given a damn about humanitarian aide. I think it was Eric K. that figured out the church donates only about $7 per member, per year to humanitarian aide. And that's the way it has always been! The Church is a for-profit business and always has been. That's NEVER going to change. Period.

So why curse the darkness? Instead of having the Church dump all it's money into very secure, but low-yielding financial instruments that only benefit the Church, why not invest it into new businesses that a lot of people can benefit from? I'm looking forward to the opening and to the fact that the stores in the mall will have the option to stay open on Sunday. I think it would be cool to have the occasional exmo gathering at the mall on Sundays when it won't be so crowded and we can get at least a little benefit from some of that tithing money we all threw down that black hole of a church.

So the brethren are just hyprocrites. First they allow alcohol. Try and get a Temple Recommend and say you have the occasional drink!!!

Now they are going to allow the stores to open on Sunday. The brethren said this mall was going to be closed on Sunday. How can these 15 guys get up and look at the members with a straight face and say "Keep the commandments" when they just violate what they teach so they can make money.

Keep the Sabath day holy!!!!!! Except for the Jesus Mall.

I don't keep the Sabath day holy. I watch TV, go to sports outting, etc. Even work in the garden without my G's. But then I am not telling people to keep the Sabath day holy nor am I telling them to keep the commandments.

What idiots TBM are. This says alot about the Church and the brethren.

Can you tell I am angry over this. Its because mu wife pays tithing to the Corporation called a Church.

If they wouldn't let restaurants sell coffee or beverages with alcohol, there would be no restaurants except fast food outlets, and a large multi-use complex like City Creek would not survive. Period.

And you can't get a temple recommend for drinking coffee either, yet nobody has a cow about the fact that even the fast food outlets will be serving coffee.

It is the exmormon high dudgeon over serving alcohol that is hypocritical.

Patrons are not required to abstain from coffee. They are not required to abstain from alcohol. They are not required to pay tithing to frequent the Church owned enterprise. How come alcohol is the only thing that gets latched onto as being hypocritical?

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Patrons are not required to abstain from coffee.
> They are not required to abstain from alcohol.
> They are not required to pay tithing to frequent
> the Church owned enterprise. How come alcohol is
> the only thing that gets latched onto as being
> hypocritical?

It's cultural because we don't have the equivalent of alcoholics anonymous for coffee & tea drinkers. We don't find that greater than 60% of violent crimes/acts are committed while under the influence of cappuccino. People don't lose their inhibitions and get pregnant after sipping a chai tea.

Your point is well taken, BoJ. The prohibitions of the church are all equal, as far as outcome on worthiness.

It's the bad rap alcohol has in the eyes of the no-mo public that garners more attention and makes it seem worse.

Also, as to the OP, I think the jesus mall is a great pinata for us. It is such an extravagance for a supposed charity, we can point to it and it hardly needs explanation when assaulting LDSinc.

If I lived in UT/SLC area, I would throw my money to dive cafes & bars instead of visiting the LDS profit machine. But that's just me. I'm into seedy dark places where I can stroke my bearded evil grin and plot against the MLMoM.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 04:32PM by Jesus Smith.

I find your idea hysterically funny! Ex-mo meetups at the City Creek center! Have a drink for me!

Problem with retail is that it is mostly a zero-sum game. Any retail gains by stores in the MormonMall will be losses to places like Gateway, and other shopping centers in the Morridor. I haven't seen the final lineup of stores, but from what I saw previously it largely consisted of stores that already had a presence in the SL Valley. My prediction: MormonMall does OK because its the newest and nicest while Gateway will languish.

That should only tell us that the church is indeed a masonic organization with deep rooted ties to the illuminati. The 322 is a significant number.

Yes, I think I read that 322 is an important number to the secret society, Skull and Bones, as well.

I looked it up. The number 322 has a lot of crazy cult connotations. It represents the Skull and Bones society.

I don't believe in this crazy stuff, but I wonder if church leaders do. Doesn't that show what loose canons they are?

That's it.

Mormons will go there, but they are notoriously cheap and will not spend very much money. Very few businesses have been able to survive as mormon-centric only.

Non-mormons and exmormons will not go there after the initial visit. There is no reason. There will be no stores there that can't be accessed other places.

A prominent feature is the signs at entrances that proclaim: "Entering Private Property" or the equivalent, which is code for: "NOT A REGULAR SHOPPING MALL so you heathens are now subject to whatever rules and restrictions we choose to impose and we can fuck with you all we want without any consequence".

Anyone will be subject to the Ayatollah Kho-Monson's "White Shirt" security forces. For god's sake be careful your slippers aren't too small, or your tank top's too tight, or you low-ride your pants. LGBT people who hold hands or hug will be tossed.

I predict it will be mere months before some poor naive people, thinking they are in a regular shopping center, become a media sensation at the hands of the stupid church security.

I think I will suggest that it should become a LGBT bucket-list item to get your picture kissing your partner at the Mormon Mall of America.

No one is going there to party or hang out or have any fun with the White Shirts everywhere.

With luck, they will have free parking in order to attract people and we can park there when we go to other events, bars, restaurants and clubs downtown.

The ONLY thing that is welcome is access to lunch food courts for the downtown working folks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 02:28PM by rodolfo.

If their walkways morph into public sidewalks (I haven't seen, myself) I suppose its their right to put signs there declaring their private property boundaries. Most malls are going to have rules and "mall cops". I haven't heard they are going to enforce special dress code rules or anything. I would hope their corporate (more corporate?) partners who are in the mall business would advise them to set the rules more inline with what customers expect.

Goldman sachs leased 7 floors of an office building downtown, they follow money. Outside of some pockets Salt Lake county and alot of Weber county are becoming less Mormon.

Due to the unfriendly business climate in California the tech biz is relocating to the rocky mountains.
This will bring people with more desposible income(no tithing).

Drove by there a few weeks back. They have done a great job of making it look like something not of the old Utah culture.

My father who is in his mid 80's was saying they would never open on Sundays or serve alcohol. I told them they would do both.
Expensive resteraunts can't make it without alcohol sales. And no way did Nordstroms invest that kind of money with a sunday closing restriction. They never intended to close.
I agree that one way to make up for lost tithing revenue is using there business side to bring in money.
Sad thing for the members is they all hunkered down, cleaned toilets, did landscaping and payed extortion to see children get married. All under the idea of hard times and building the kingdom.

The gentrification of downtown SLC city has begun. The CEO's and 1% people coming in from the tech and any other business that comes in need a place to be seen and spend.

I imagine when it's open and the sheep see liquor pouring and cash registers ringing on the sabbath, they might start to weigh what is one there shelves.

No wonder these old geezers need bullet proof cars.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2012 03:48PM by beansandbrews.

First, many of the stores aren't accessible anywhere else in Utah (except online), or at least anywhere close to downtown. Second, in the long run the majority of City Creek patrons will be non-Mormons - because most people that live and shop downtown are non-Mormons. Third, it's never going to be Mill Avenue (hell, it will never have dedicated bars) but people will go to eat there and then drift down Main to drink at the Beerhive, the Red Door, etc., etc. It's easy to nitpick the project but it is amazing compared to the dilapidated dump that it replaced. There are more businesses along Main Street now than there have been at any point in at least the past six years.

Funny that you think of Mormons as cheap, Rodolfo. It's true, but there's another side, especially in Utah - where the mentality tends to run differently. There are plenty who are very much about image and will be frequenting City Creek's Nordstrom.

People should be outraged. They are a business...not a church....enjoy it all you want but the powers that be are doing this for a reason. Yes, i am sure they will have their rules and regulations....how about a dress code....ousted if you are not covered up sufficiently. I don't know what they will do but they will invade your freedoms. And they will make money from NON-Mormons even it is it just at the eateries. They want all the money they can get from everyone!!! This is just another way. And will little places be set up so the missionaries can pop out and annoy people? I am sure they will be walking the place daily.

It's been in the mall business for years with Crossroads - where there wasn't a dress code and where there weren't any missionaries. City Creek isn't going to be any different in that respect.

Wish I was there to enjoy with all my fellow Ex Mo's! Hope they build one here in Northern Cal!

I see your point and it's a good one. I hadn't thought of it that way and at least the money is going to renovate downtown Salt Lake City. I will definitely be trying to think of it that way when and if I ever go there. However...

It doesn't change the fact it didn't create jobs or renovate the downtown of any other city in the U.S. This is just to benefit Utah Mormons and it's better than just benefiting the egos of the Big Twelve, but it's still a very limited good. I suppose you could argue that if they'd used that money to renovate a village or two in Africa, it would still be of limited help though.

But it won't change the fact that I would walk around the mall thinking "How many vaccines could and should have been bought with this money - how many lives could have been saved - how many kids could have had a coat to wear to school this winter that didn't - how much good could have been done on a reservation or in poor areas of Appalachia or in the inner cities with this money? Because that's why I paid tithing. To do good. Not to have a nice mall to visit once in while when on vacation.

With tithing revenues down, the brethren have to do something to adapt. If they can't get your 10% for free, they'll have to get it the old-fashioned way, by working for it.

I hear the markups in the retail sector can be quite handsome.

You should open an Ex-Mormon T-Shirt Kiosk.

You are a genius!

rodolfo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should open an Ex-Mormon T-Shirt Kiosk.


And a Utah Lighthouse Ministry/Tanners bookstore. :-D

My understanding is that some resteraunts will have liquor licenses

Oh I think it's especially awesome for all the people in "the mission field" having their money siphoned to SLC for the building up of the kingdom or whatever.

Like my ex-wife who is living at the poverty level and buys her clothes at the thrift store just to be in good standing. Even if she were to visit the great and wondrous mall, she couldn't afford to actually buy anything.

So they question I have is....WHY would the church fund this mall when you have just a stone's throw away...the Gateway Mall and not too far away, Trolley Square. It seems that they should have expanded/upgraded one of their existing malls as oopsed to adding another mall downtown. With all the TBMs drooling over this new mall, it seems that they are trying to put the other 2 malls out of business..

The Crossroads Plaza and the ZCMI mall.

The very same argument you advanced was used against the Gateway when it was built because it was going to kill Crossroads, Main Street businesses and Trolley Square.

If you or soemone else can explain that this business model will/can work great. Were the massive amounts of moneies invested in those 2 malls also by the church? In my opinion, if the church wants to be the good business-friendly steward downtown, that they say they are, they would have found ways to boost those other 2 malls up first before building one just for themselves...

The Gateway and Trolley Square were their competitors before City Creek, and they remain so. The LDS Church has no interest in bolstering those two malls. In fact, the word is that the Church was very upset that the Gateway was ever greenlighted.

City Creek is going to negatively impact the Gateway quite a bit, although I think Gateway will be okay (at least in the short run) because it has a decent live music venue, is across the street from E-Solutions Arena, and because a lot of businesses followed the development and have established offices adjacent to the Gateway. Trolley Square is kind of a different animal - I personally think it won't suffer too much, especially in light of the fact that Sam Weller just moved out there.

Isn't the trend away from brick and mortar retail anyway? Aren't malls going to slowly die? Most of the young people I know stay home and shop on line.

My wife has bought very little off line for the last several years. She doesn't do the grocery shopping but thats not on-line, yet. Among her peers thats pretty much status quo.

Scripturally how does a TBM reconcile this mall in their minds?

1 Ne. 22:23 lays it out pretty clear that in the last days there will be a sure way to identify a false church. Touching on just a few....

1. The church will be set up to get gain
2. It will try to gain power over flesh
3. It will try to become popular among the world


How is this not obvious to everyone? How was it not obvious to me for so many years????

1. "...But I wish to give the entire Church the assurance that tithing funds have not and will not be used to acquire this property. Nor will they be used in developing it for commercial purposes. FUNDS FOR THIS HAVE COME AND WILL COME FROM THE COMMERCIAL ENTITIES OWNED BY THE CHURCH. These resources, together with the earnings of invested reserve funds, will accommodate this program." - Gordon Hinckley, The Condition of the Church, April 2003

2. One set of earrings... no taking your shirt off in your backyard... no tattoos... no coffee ... no... ok, you get the point.

3. Look how interesting we are...wanna hang out and be my BFF? http://mormon.org/people/?gclid=CJiqptKSrq4CFeQbQgodnxzFww

Assuming you believe this verse (that was plagarized from Isaiah) you have got to feel sorry for all those who will never see the truth don't you?

enjoy it while it lasts because its not an economically plausible project and it wont be economically viable.
They spent a billion to get to bare dirt to start.
They are dreadfully late. Its over priced. It has too much competition. The one attraction LDS INC hoped beyond any reason would make up and over come all of that adversity is a dying entity itself, that being the MORmON church.