I've been out of the church for about ten years now. When I grew up in it black people were still cursed by Cain and couldn't hold the priesthood. Mixed race marriages were discouraged. The church would eventually fill the whole world; especially, after the iron curtain came down and then Jesus would return. Garments were still one piece.

Then the times forced the church to change. They had to give in on letting blacks hold the priesthood because the church would be labeled racist if they didn't. It's interesting how bad publicity forces the prophet to suddenly have a revelation. A smaller world with an ever increasing mix of cultures will result in dating other cultures and marrying other cultures. The church has yet to fill the whole earth. Nobody wants it. Garments became two piece because if they didn't modernize them, nobody would wear them and the underwear sales would diminish and a old proven control mechanism would be lost.

Oh yeah, the temple became less threatening and less invasive. No death threats and no more touchy feely.

It's amazing how the older you get the more the unchanging church of God changes. It hasn't changed fast enough. It probably won't be recognizable 50 years from now.

All I know is the longer you are out of the fog of Mormonism the more you forget you ever were one. I actually forgot about garments. I really did. I'm in shorts all the time when the weather is nice. I no longer feel guilty or even care what someone thinks that I'm not in them.

Really that's the key to leaving the church. Just stop caring about what they think of you. Wanting to be accepted by them is the key to their control and once you are past caring, they have no power over you.

This is really fascinating, because it offers perspective on how to approach things in the here and now.

What was the point in suffering to protect polygamy at the risk of life or liberty? The church simply abandoned it rather than stand on principle.

Again, why risk embarrassing yourself trying to justify the ban on blacks in the priesthood--only to have the church authorities back down.

Now, members are asked to do anything they can to support these campaigns against marriage equality. What will be the point of all that effort 25 years from now?

What do we need all this "inspired guidance" from the "living oracles" for anyway?

The church has no honor. It actually has no backbone. It's a big bully when it can get away with it and as soon as it gets in trouble; especially, when bad PR or loss of money is the result, it folds and gives in.

What will finally do the church in will be economics and demographics. The US is no longer the world's economic super power. Asia will be where the action is in the 21st Century and like the US in the 20th Century Asia will be setting a lot of the trends. Mormonism is a dated American religion that focused on the new Jerusalem fad of the 19th Century when the US was the promised and of opportunity. Those days are over.

I think we will see an Asian flavor of spirituality become more popular. We eat sushi, we use eastern terminology more now. Most the people I know who are spiritual lean more to the east. I think we will hear more about balance, yin/yang, karma and those sort of things. Mormonism will look like a dated footnote of the American old west. It will become an interesting story and that's about it.

agree.

snowball Wrote:
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> This is really fascinating, because it offers
> perspective on how to approach things in the here
> and now.
>
> What was the point in suffering to protect
> polygamy at the risk of life or liberty? The
> church simply abandoned it rather than stand on
> principle.
>
> Again, why risk embarrassing yourself trying to
> justify the ban on blacks in the priesthood--only
> to have the church authorities back down.
>
> Now, members are asked to do anything they can to
> support these campaigns against marriage equality.
> What will be the point of all that effort 25
> years from now?
>
> What do we need all this "inspired guidance" from
> the "living oracles" for anyway?


Yeah. My great grandfather did prison time in the Sugar House prison for continuing practicing polygamy. He actually believed he was following the commandments of the Lord. The situation created by the church resulted later in the father being jailed, and the family later split up, and a nasty legal battle over assets with four wives involved in the fight. Bad feelings lasted for generations because of it.

All thanks to a man following a church commandment that the church latter just gave up on.

There's nothing worth sacrificing for or defending in this church. Nothing at all.

I had a harder time getting past how my daughter felt about me, but it has gotten a lot easier. I just go about my life now and even my daughter posted on her blog about my boyfriend--where I know for a long time, she hoped my ex and I would get back together. Actually, I think she actually now enjoys having the 'family'--it makes her unique among mormons!

Anyway--I just live my life and I don't care and I have found that many mormons treat me better because I just don't give a damn what they think.

The church is so weak and manipulative that the prophet GBH acted like a weasel on national television and denied that LDSinc teaches that "As man is God once was, and as God is man may become"

It was and is the central doctrine of the temple and teachings and GBH is such a sneaky little weak man that he denies it with "Oh, I don't know that we teach that"

That's evoloution of a church doctrine......or it's just a two faced weak and lying manipulation of every one within and out of the LDSinc

"Proclaim the truth with boldness" vs. "I don't know that we teach that"

I had a good laugh when I saw Gordo wrote a book called "Standing For Something". Oh the guy could lay it down in a church setting but on public television being interviewed by the press, he looked like a scared kitten denying basic church doctrine. These guys only stand tall in font of a captive, brain washed, church audience.

The less you care what they think of you the less power they have over you. It's still a struggle for me though. I am around TBM family all the time and I still care how and what they think of me. Maybe with time it'll happen for me...

Have you seen their recent videos? Smooth, slick and of course very deceptive. They are desperately trying to push the cult to a mainstream audience. Very nauseating.

canadianfriend Wrote:
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> Have you seen their recent videos? Smooth, slick
> and of course very deceptive. They are desperately
> trying to push the cult to a mainstream audience.
> Very nauseating.

They are trying to turn a covered wagon into a Ferrari. Shure they can spend the big bucks for some Pirelli Z rated tires on some nice forged aluminum wheels but at the end of the day, it's still an old wagon and it's not going to go any faster or perform any better.

I read on this board by someone in the know that the change in blacks was an "anti revelation". The pofit said if god does not want us to let in blacks to the priesthood then he should let us know. Guess what? God did not say one word on the subject. Imagine that. It really did shake some's faith, at the time. since the unchanging church just changed.

Like when Homer Simpson kneeled down next to a plate of cookies and said, "Lord, if you don't want me to eat these cookies, give me a sign." After waiting a moment to be sure nothing would happen, he said, "Thy will be done" and munched them down.

True...you have to care about the others and what they think of you. Once you no longer care you are home free. If they love the "church" more so be it. YOU know you are worthy to be loved and if they deny that they are the losers.

This is happening even with smaller doctrinal issues. When I joined the YW program around the year 2000, the focus shifted from the fun BOM stories of Primary to this overall concept of one day becoming a goddess and ruling, with a righteous husband, over my own planet. This was a major focus of most lessons.

Now, there are serious changes in the manuals. This doctrine of becoming gods and goddesses one day is being phased out. Kids in Primary now will not hear about this as much when they are in YW and YM.

What the church is effectively doing, whether it's intended or not, is building giant generation gaps. The old veteran Mormons won't be updated on whatever new PR doctrine-cleansing the church is spinning.

After much prayer and supplication in the upper room of the temple, the Lord has revealed to us that people are no longer living on the moon. With the lack of oxygen, and it just being too darn cold, they all got into a big rocketship and left for a more hospitable planet. The Lord has further informed us that they will continue to wear their traditional Quaker garb in their new home.

T.M.

yin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is happening even with smaller doctrinal
> issues. When I joined the YW program around the
> year 2000, the focus shifted from the fun BOM
> stories of Primary to this overall concept of one
> day becoming a goddess and ruling, with a
> righteous husband, over my own planet. This was a
> major focus of most lessons.
>
> Now, there are serious changes in the manuals.
> This doctrine of becoming gods and goddesses one
> day is being phased out. Kids in Primary now will
> not hear about this as much when they are in YW
> and YM.
>
> What the church is effectively doing, whether it's
> intended or not, is building giant generation
> gaps. The old veteran Mormons won't be updated on
> whatever new PR doctrine-cleansing the church is
> spinning.


The RLDS went towards just becoming a more evangelicalized church out of necessity. Continuing with the old program would mean the demise of the church. They still had to keep Joseph Smith for a while longer to keep the old foggies in the church happy. So yes, you need those generational gaps to change the church. In short, they want to keep members in the church and to do that they have to change the doctrine but then they also still need the missions and temple marriage. So the church is softening in one area and still trying to be hardcore in the next. That won't work. You will see more and more youth skip the mission, come home early and more temple marriages fail. It's already failing.

The old church just can't survive in the modern world. Niether can the old politics. Not only has the internet ruffled the feathers of the church, it has ruffled the feathers of everything.