I have often heard the apostles say they know the church is true through "experiences too sacred to discuss". As a Mormon I used to take this as them being more special than me. I liked knowing there were men more special than me on earth. Closer to god. Men to look up to.

Now I find it deeply insulting.

To me they are saying "I am more special than you. You are swine. I will not cast my pearls before you"


I know that if I had had experiences proving to me that there was a god and I was in his church I would share it like Paul the New Testament apostle!!!! That would be the only legitimate thing to do.

They're claiming these experiences mean they're better than us. In fact they are so much better that they can't even talk to us about it because we're too lowly to be so favored. That's insulting!

Or as we like to say in our house: put up or shut up. If it is so damn sacred, then why did you say anything at all? To start rumors, which you then send out a memo saying not to spread?

What hubris!

(.... my personal ex com of Gordon B.S. Hinckley as a prophet for lying about MORmON polygamy on national TV! )

The other thing you sometimes hear is that we (common folk) are not ready to know or experience what they have experienced. We are not there yet--not spiritual enough, not smart enough in understanding God and his plan, and it would overwhelm us. Of course, there are various ways of saying this. But, the bottom line?? they are better, smarter, more spiritual, more advanced, more sophisticated, closer to God, already understand everything (we don't), more excellent, more Christ-like, far superior, and favored by God.

Or my personal favorite, when they tell members to keep their "most sacred" experiences private. We all know that is a polite way of telling members to not claim they were rescued by the three nephites during sacrament meeting, or to tell non-members about the time Lucifer appeared in front of them, and they had to command him to leave. You know all the crazy made up BS, that TBMs like to claim in order to one up each other.

They Big 15 know it makes the church look nutty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 08:50AM by forbiddencokedrinker.

In the earlier days of the church the leaders spoke frequently about angelic visions and visits by Jebus. The best we can take out of this is that they feel uncomfortable lying about a Holy Visit from Jebus and that rather than do so they just say that it's "too sacred."

And also what "forbiddencokedrinker" says.

They don't have to say they commune directly with Jehovah but they don't have to say they don't either. By saying that they've experienced things to sacred to discuss they allow the members to interpret it as they want, give the brethern deniability and the tithing $ keep rolling in.

So they are all happy and have a strong testimony without a word being said.

Its crazy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 10:38AM by kookoo4kokaubeam.

kookoo4kokaubeam is right.


If it wasn't too sacred for Joseph Smith, John Taylor, Lorenzo Snow or Joseph F. Smith to share then how is it now too sacred with the current Bros. I think the issue is more that the current lot can't fake it as well as their 19th century counterparts so they say it's all too sacred for the masses. It's a pride thing. They wouldn't dare admit that they haven't seen anything...and they don't have to. Just imply things and leave it at that. The believers will do the rest.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 10:46AM by badseed.

...the "sacred" thing turning out to be nothing more than a run-of-the-mill Mormon warm fuzzy feeling that they've inflated in importance because it was THEIR warm fuzzy feeling, and since they're GAs, it MUST be infinitely more special than your warm fuzzy feeling.

Kinda like a pre-pubescent kid saying "I know something you don't know...."

Ron

It wasn't "too sacred" for all the prophets and apostles of the Bible and Book of Mormon, to share their spiritual experiences. Neither was it for Joseph Smith.

Why is it suddenly "too sacred" for current prophets and apostles to share? Isn't that their JOB???!!!

Geoff Staines Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have often heard the apostles say they know the
> church is true through "experiences too sacred to
> discuss".

This is a brainwashing technique. Think about how parents act with their kids concerning Santa Claus. He can watch you. He knows when you're bad. He can magically appear in houses.

And any question the parents can't answer about S.C. are left to magic and something special that can't be explained.

Investment scammers use the same techniques. They imply they have an inside track they can't reveal. Trust them.

It is a sign the 15 know they scam and are willing to lie to keep the tithing flowing.

http://mormonthink.com/lying.htm



What's insulting beyond that is how members emulate this. In F&T meeting when bearing their testimonkey. Or family telling me that they know, because of experiences so sacred they can't share them, and that I am just too inexperienced and therefore susceptible to deceit...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 12:37PM by Jesus Smith.

Members of my family have emulated this phrase in their facebook testimonies. If you've got some conviction say it. Otherwise it's just like firing testimonial blanks to scare people.

If you have seen Jesus say it otherwise you are just posturing.

"We have achieved fusion at room temperature."

"Wow! Tell us exactly how you did it."

"Sorry, it's too sacred to discuss."

"Well, in that case we'll give you five million dollars."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 04:25PM by baura.

If I could go back in time I'd love to go back to the mission conference where one of the elders asked a GA if he'd ever seen Jesus. The poor elder was publicly humiliated for asking such a rude question and the GA (Kenneth Johnson) dodged the question in the usual manner.

I'd love to stand up and say 'Ken, what's your problem buddy? That's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. If you haven't seen Jesus then just tell the truth and admit it - we'll respect your honesty. If you have, then act as a 'witness' and tell us all about it. Tell us all the details just like they used to in the good old days. And don't give us that 'it's too special to share crap'.

I'd then flip the bird and walk out of the chapel and out of the mission....... only then realising that of course the Mission President has confiscated my passport (as per other thread)..... Doh!

This phrase kept me going to church. I wanted to find out what was so sacred, I wanted to know about the wonderful temple experiences, I wanted to have those spiritual witnesses that leaders talked about. I never really did. I eventually realized that leaders just don't want to destroy testimonies, I stopped believing.

It's not secret, it's sacred. It's too sacred, it's secret.

In my home ward growing up (Laguna Beach Ward) there was a family who's Father was a former Bishop and Stake President. Supposedly when one of their sons was born, there was some earth shattering revelation concerning that son.The Family would never elaborate beyond that because it was "too Sacred", but never tired of throwing it in the faces of the rest of the Ward and Stake. It eventually became an enormous joke as that "chosen" son grew up, because it was plain as day that he was going to have a hard time functioning as a normal adult, much less the great LDS Prophet that was implied ad nauseum by his pious and conceited family. The Matriarch of the Family was kinda ok in an old school, 1950's way but the Patriarch was a pompous ass. Both have been dead for some time, so I will never have the joy of asking them how their public/private revelation worked out for them.

Unrelated Note...
This former Bishop/Stake President acted as if he was the personal prophet over all of us in the ward. He'd sit in his place in the pews like Jabba the Hut during Testimony Meeting until it was time for the REAL authority to speak. Then instead of mounting the podium, he would simply rise in place on his enormous haunches and address the minions.

He was not a beloved figure to say the least. I think that he was a little too "Utah Mormon" for that congregation of wealthy "California Mormons" who prefer their religion a lot less fundamental and fervent, and see their place in the Church as a liberal counterweight to the more fanatic Utah Church.

the Basics of Christ-Like living...
Kindness, Mercy & Compassion, Honesty, etc

(who would THEY BE to discuss Honesty???)


at the Other End of the 'discussion spectrum' seldom get discussed in Morland either...


with the LDS... it's like they DON'T EXIST



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 04:52PM by guynoirprivateeye.

As a boy I learned in Priest Quorum that the upper room of the temple was reserved for Christ to communicate with his prophets and apostles. It never occurred to me to ask, "OK, what exactly ARE they discussing anyway?" I mean, wouldn't this be important knowledge for the world to know? But it's just to sacred to discuss?? It's the most ever devised.

What are they discussing?

How many earrings is too many?

Flip-flops - Satan's footwear?

Appropriate underwear for yardwork?

That's the kind of stuff they discuss.

If it is so sacred it can't be shared, then shut the f*** up about it.

Like an older brother taunting a younger sibling with candy he won't share.

Don't have time (or to be honest) don't want to invest the time to look up when the GA's and top dudes first started with the "too sacred to discuss" phrases. Does it coincide with the time the church hired the PR firm discussed in another thread that does the "Heartsell" or possibly another PR firm?

I have heard this many times.

I had experiences I didn't want to discuss with people as I was concerned someone would find fault, criticize, make fun of me, or laugh, or not understand. So, I didn't often share private spiritual experiences. I didn't think anyone was interested anyhow.

Saying you have spiritual experiences too sacred to share is a way of protecting yourself, your privacy, and your experiences.
That's how I understood that statement!

The statement can be what you describe, though most often I would think that it wouldn't be necessary to inform others that you have had such experiences at all. I think many people have intense, personal experiences -- religious and otherwise -- that they choose not to discuss for any number of reasons. Why bring them up?

Coming from the church leadership, the purpose of this statement appears to be, "I have a secret which, if you knew it, would build your testimony (and show how holy I am). So let's just agree that it's all real, and you can build your testimony and your opinion of me based on that."

I would love to ask, "so, you're saying that your experiences (which are too sacred to discuss) - are even more special than those of J.S." (the 1st Vision) Wow!!!!!! You really are very special...

...how much MONEY they take into their coffers and who gets it!