Did the cost and bother of your gay divorce make you question whether it was worth getting your gay marriage?

What benefits did you have while you were in the gay marriage?

There is considerable discussion of gay marriage on RFM but I have never heard any discussion of gay divorce.

Why do you assume there is some sort of strong distinction/difference between a straight marriage/divorce and a gay marriage/divorce?

there was a story in the newspapers a year ago it went like this.

A gay couple who lived in Connecticut went to Massachusetts and got married. Just a quick easy trip to MA and the marriage was performed and all nice and legal. But after a year of marriage they decided things were not working. And so they wanted a divorce.

First they tried to get the divorce in their home state of Connecticut. But since that state doesn't recognize gay marriage the state was unable to grant them a divorce.

So then they inquired about getting the divorce in MA. It turns out that they would have to be legal residents of MA for a full year before they could get the divorce there. They had never been legal residents of MA.

So the gay couple was stuck with no way of getting a divorce unless they picked up and moved to MA and lived there for a year.

They hadn't considered the matter of a gay divorce prior to getting their gay marriage, and the reality came as a big shock.

There is no science there: it is just one example. Yes, with marriage, things go wrong and people get divorced. There are at least five other "gay divorces" in the news, some even ***HORRORS!!!*** with children involved. Does that mean gay marriages are more "cost and bother" (your words) than heterosexual marriages where property, children, money are also all tied up in the mix?

If the United States weren't so hung up on marriage as a states' rights issue ONLY, until more than 37 states come to some kind of an understanding, the example you used wouldn't even be a consideration.

What are you trying to prove with this kind of passive-aggressive presentation?

or to put it another way, Look before you leap

"If the United States weren't so hung up on marriage as a states' rights issue ONLY..."

Best to deal with the world as it is, not how you wish it to be.

If bullfrogs had wings they wouldn't bump their asses on the rocks.

The wording of your OP tells me the one doing the wishing is you - wishing that "gay marriage" had never appeared on your radar at all. If that is the case then good luck, because it is not disappearing any time soon.

... when it is clearly capable of so much more?

Timothy

There is no assumption that gay divorce is different. It simply IS different.

sharapata, I can see where you're coming from. But marriage is a state issue.

Since some states do not recognize gay marriage, if you get married in a state that recognizes gay marriage, then move to a state that does not allow gay marriage and try to get divorced, their state courts (divorce is handled by the states under state laws) will not want to handle the divorce.

Also, in states like Utah where the children usually go to the mother, judges will be completely confused. If there are 2 women, who do you make in to the bad one so you can justify giving custody to the other?

And 2 gay men? How do you know which one to rob and which one to transfer the wealth to?

That's the danger of this board. Years ago, I asked a very simple question about atheism.

A dogpile ensued. People can get very sensitive when it comes to their hot button issues.

It just so happens that atheists have been asked almost on a daily basis, "If you don't believe in God, what stops you from committing murder?" So some get really offended when you ask them about their beliefs and how they approach life. And an innocent question sets off response that is heightened by the instant courage people are able to summon when sitting at a keyboard. They attack a person asking a simple question, when they have been silently putting up with passive-aggressive jabs for years.

Their anger is misplaced. I wonder if we might all be able to answer sincere questions if we actually responded to the nasty people by setting boundaries first. Would that allow us to be sincere in our replies to sincere questions, having the bad feelings out of the way so we could possibly distinguish the two?

That's my hope. God knows I've jumped to conclusions before, too.

I hope you got the info you were looking for. There are very big differences between hetero and gay marriage when it comes to states recognizing/not recognizing the marriage, and thus granting/not granting a divorce.

You can find lawyers who deal in gay divorce. Yes, we do need them. As long as people get divorced, we'll need divorce lawyers. Get used to that one, everybody.

Best,
T-Bone

It was HORRIBLE! They were together for something like 4 or 5 years? I was more broken up about it than when my own parents divorced.

She and her ex bought a house together about year befor her ex decided she wanted to go back to men. My sister went through a seriously painful break up (it sucked because I was 500 miles away at the time) only to get back together 8 months later again, after she washed her hands of the house and let the ex have it.

After my sister realized things were not going to work aout and her ex was a narcissitic bitch, she cut off all contact with her. She still tries to call my sister every once in awhile, even though she ended up marrying the man she cheated with.

I assume divorce for gay people is going to be just as painful and difficult as divorces for straights. Sames issues- dividing of property, custody, and alimony, right?

On a happy note, my sister married a friend from HS last summer, has gained two amazing daughters and I now have a SIL whom I adore.

Read your post to yourself removing the word "gay".

Did the cost and bother of your marriage make it not worthwhile?

It reminds me of the Liz Feldman quote going around that says, "It’s very dear to me, the issue of gay marriage. Or as I like to call it: “Marriage.” You know, because I had lunch this afternoon, not gay lunch. I parked my car; I didn’t gay park it."

Gays and lesbian adult citizens can and will make all the same right and wrong decisions in life as those heteros who seem to think they ought to have a corner on that marriage market. Marriage will only be another part of the equation. The difference is that they do not have the opportunity to make those decisions and choices for themselves, and they deserve the right to.

Anyone who argues differently obviously hews to the party-line that also claims blacks and native Americans were/are too [simple, stupid, inferior, defective, insert your own bigoted/racist pejorative here] to be self-determinate and therefore should have no rights at all. If "anon_for_this_one" has an axe to grind about the civil rights of Americans, maybe the RNC or NOM is a better forum to do so...

As I start my journey to switching teams, I understand divorce happens. But Im looking for a committed relationship. Until the entire USA has marriage, I will not pursue. But that won't happen in my lifetime (Utah being one state that will never allow it)

Does it involve dancing, throwing flowers and color cooridinated shoes and shirts? My divorce wasn't terribly "gay" so I'm afraid I'm a little lost with the reference.

Unintended consequence - rise of expert gay-divorce attorneys. Like we need more lawyers. :(

anon_for_this_one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did the cost and bother of your gay divorce make
> you question whether it was worth getting your gay
> marriage?
>
> What benefits did you have while you were in the
> gay marriage?
>
> There is considerable discussion of gay marriage
> on RFM but I have never heard any discussion of
> gay divorce.

Let me fix this one for you:

Has anyone gone through a divorce?

Did the cost and bother of your divorce make you question whether it was worth getting your marriage?

What benefits did you have while you were in the marriage?
______________________

Marriage is a human issue, and legalizing gay marriage is a human rights issue. The right to have a legally recognized marriage with a partner of choice is something that should be afforded to every human adult without any limit based on sexual orientation. The benefits of marriage are the same for straight people and gay people, why would it be different for gay people?

Divorce is a human issue and is painful, difficult and expensive for any married couple. Why would it make gay people regret their marriage any more than straight people?

You know what else is costly, bothersome, painful and very difficult (logistically and emotionally)? Separation from civil partnerships, long term heterosexual and homosexual relationships where finances, real property and other things are co-mingled, etc. Even if there is no marriage license or rights in place, lawyers are often required to untangle deep relationships, and it's even worse when neither side is afforded protections that are afforded to married couples. Should people stay away from any/all significant relationships because of the cost and bother of ending them, should they meet their demise?

Your question is pointless and offensive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 04:15PM by wittyname.

I went up and reread the post and took out the word "gay" and now I see what point those responding are trying to make. I also think though, there shouldn't be gay bars, just bars.

I kinda like gay bars vs bars. At least I can walk in with the understanding of who is likely to hit on me that night. *smirk*

I've not been to one but I think I want to. I have been invited by gay friends to go but I have a small child so that keeps me at chuck e cheez for now

There are country bars, punker bars, goth bars...

You're comparing apples and pineapples here.

Apples and pineapples are both fruit
I never was very good at those comparison riddles.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 11:14PM by suckafoo.

And bars are all service organizations (although not all serve alcoholic beverages, I believe).

And I don't get the whole "similarity" thing either.

But I stand by my statement. Marriage is marriage, regardless of the sexual orientation of the participants. Bars, however, are commercial enterprises and most will cater to a specific clientel. That's just the nature of business.

Gay divorces are very tricky ground. For example, when two lesbians are divorcing, it is very difficult on the courts, as they do not know who to screw since no man is involved.

I stole that from TV, don't remember which show.

Ok, so I'm going to play devils advocate. I don't think the OP was trying to cause trouble. The way I read it is what are the differences between a gay divorce as opposed to a straight divorce, not trying to be derisive.

Ok, so, there are more ambiguous laws and rules that would be questioned possibly. Custody issues could be more complicated where the children are not both biological to the couple. That is just one example I can think of. As for the emotion of it, I would think that's the same.

But, since gay marriage is not accepted everywhere, there are going to be outcomes that may be based more on personal beliefs than the letter of the law. I am sure there are not the same laws spelling out custody and finances and alimony, etc, etc for gay couples, and this is maybe what the OP is referring to.

I am involved in a mixed orientation separation and divorce, and depending on where you live or where I live there may be differences in legalities. We are trying to stay away from court, as that could be so much more damaging to my ex because of where we live.

Just my opinion. I was surprised at the reaction, I had not thought of it that way.

I work for a very large company that just rolled out domestic partner benefits last month. I did a lot of research last year as I work in ERISA law (benefits law). The more I found out in trying to outline each state's laws concerning same sex domestic partnerships (whether marriage, civil unions, registration, etc), the more I wondered why a same sex couple would want to get married until DOMA is repealed and those marriages recognized in all states.

As someone pointed out already, most states that allow gay marriage do not have a residencey requirement in order to get married in that state. However, a same-sex couple seeking a divorce has to meet the same requirements already in place for any divorce and that usually requires them, or at least the filing party, to have been a resident of the state for a specified period of time before filing.

So if you are married in a state you don't reside in and then return to a state that does not recognize gay marriage, just because it was important to you to be married, you cannot file for divorce in your home state--because they do not consider you married. You would have to get divorced in a state that recognizes same sex marriage and abide by their divorce laws.

The kicker is that almost all states who have any kind of domestic partnership laws, even California DP registry, has a requirement that you have dissolved any former recognized domestic partnership before you will be allowed to marry or register with another person. In the case of our company--we are in a state that will probably be the last one before Utah to ever legalize any kind of same sex relationship. However, we offer same sex health benefits, but the employee has to sign an affidavit stating that they are not in any other legal domestic partner situation. So how is your new partner going to feel if they are living with you, possibly raising a family, but you can't marry, register, or even put them on your benefits because you'd have to move to another state and live there for 6-12 months to get a divorce first.

Even couples who choose to put their partner on their benefits have to deal with the repurcussion of DOMA's affect on the tax laws. The company has to break down the amount of family coverage attributable to the domestic partner because that amount cannot be taken out pre-tax as it is for an opposite sex spouse (again, DOMA), and the amount of the premium paid by the company has to be imputed as income to the employee so they can pay tax on that amount at the end of the year.

The bottom line: tread lightly. No one wants to think about divorce when they get married, but consider the possibilities and know what your contingency plan would be should you need it. If you don't live in a marriage equality state and plan to stay there, you might want to go with a commitment ceremony and keep your options open.

Tread lightly through that mine field.

by "non for this" and "NormaRae" have thankfully brought some information to this thread -- the kind of information that I was hoping to elicit when I started the thread.

My OP was not nasty and I only got a little snarky in response to posters sharapata and informer who started spouting off that there was no difference between gay divorce and straight divorce. Obviously that is not the case. State divorce laws were written and case law evolved at a time when gay marriage did not exist. To assume that those laws are transferable to gay divorce is not a valid assumption.

This is why dialogue on issues we should be free to talk about becomes so impossible. When people respond by saying "You have no right to say that!" there's no hope for the evolution we all go through in dialogue with other points of view.

As a divorce attorney, I fully understood the question to mean that given the current state of complicated/inconsistent laws on gay marriage, would it be worth the costs/risks/uncertainty if you end up having to divorce. It's a very good question!

Marriage is a legal contract. And the consequences of the specific contract you enter, whether the contract will be recognized where you live, what happens if you want to be restored to a former state prior to the contract, are all critical questions when entering a legal responsibility/obligation. Questions that need to be asked need to be specific to the situation--not just generalizations. Taking offense because the OP doesn't generalize is ignorant because the details of the situation is what needs to be thought out.

Especially because the current state of the law is that gay partners can enter the legal marriage in one state but find themselves unable to meet the jurisdiction requirements to dissolve the marriage where they actually live or even in the state that granted the marriage! There is nothing improper with the OPs question, and a lot of ignorance (sorry) in the reactionary responses that assumed no right to ask the question.

The question was no more offensive when accepted a face value without projecting your own assumptions than if the OP asked: If you're 75 and on social security and have premarital assets, would it be worth getting married? If you need to protect your assets and you're signing a prenuptial, is it worth the cost or hassle to get married anyway in case you have to divorce. Etc.

I think it was the phrasing you chose, specifically in describing marriage and divorce? Using the specific phrases "gay marriage" and "gay divorce" implies the separate but (un)equal concept. It's also a very raw subject - especially on a forum for recovery from a church that thinks that homosexuality is a sickness under the b.s. "SSA" label.

Phrasing your question in a more neutral way - such as "what difficulties arise with homosexual couples whose marriages result in divorce that don't happen with heterosexuals?" would have appeared better.

I admit - I thought it was a very loaded question, too.