When I've seen news stories of lds dead-dunking, I've asked this question in the comments section and have never gotten an answer.

Why does the church need to use actual names of deceased people?

Someone said there is a list of names so many people get baptized over and over again. How does the church plan to baptize people if there is no written record of them? Seems actual names aren't necessary, especially if they get a new one.

If the deceased woman has been married more than once, how does the church decide who she gets sealed to? Does she get sealed to all her husbands when lds women cannot get sealed to more than one husband now?

I realize dead-dunking is just temple busy work to get members to pay tithing, but when fictional characters get baptized, it's hard to see how the ritual, as it stands now, is sacred.

Most LDS have no idea of much of the above, and just believe they are "saving families". They don't worry about the details - God will work it all out - and so there is no reason to doubt it is sacred, if you are a TBM.

Yes, I've heard TBMs say, "God will sort it out". Why not have one baptism for all the deceased men and one for all the deceased women in a given year, and let god sort it all out? Still makes it seem like temple busy work.

I heard members say it's to give the deceased who did not hear about mormonism a chance to accept it. Problem with this explanation is the people who baptism relatives that rejected mormonism and said they don't want to be baptized into the church when dead.

Yeah, but once they're dead, and know for sure that Mormonism is true, they'll obviously change their mind!!!

It is always futile to try to make sense of something that is inherently nonsensical. But those of us still tied to the church by friends and families, we struggle on making our case.

Names and dates are often wrong, or are at best approximations, but the temple work is still considered valid. On the basis of that logic, the church might just as well do billions of "John Doe" and "Jane Doe" (or Adam Doe and Eve Doe) ordinances and let people just take a number in the waiting room of the afterlife.

The church knows that not all mortals are documented, and that according to church teachings, the unknowns will be taken care of during the millennium.

OR..just do ONE work for ALL humanity..ohh right, that's already been done.

I know the Jews have plenty to complain about, but I am surprised that the temple work practice doesn't anger Christians more than it does, as the doctrine essentially discounts the atonement.

If names and dates are often wrong but the temple work is still valid, then why not use a person first name or initials only, or as you suggested John or Jane Doe?

I just don't think TBMs understand it's using a deceased person's name in the ritual that is offensive?

I wonder if others will be offended by the practice now that it's getting more press?

Long after I left the church I got interested in genealogy. The church's genealogy resources are substantial, but I learned that the records cannot be taken at face value. I don't think there is any review of what is entered, and as most of the research is done by enthusiastic amateurs just about anything is possible. Especially if by "research" you include "promptings of the spirit."

I have seen multiple records for the same person, often with different dates, spellings, or place names. For one of my ancestors, there is a completely spurious lineage that after much study I discovered was based on a simple specultation of a 19th century genealogist that was later proven incorrect. But somebody used it as justification for literally thousands of years of family relationships. (It tied into a line of nobility who typically have long genealogies. Of course, most of that is fraudulant too.)

If the church were to explain that the a bunch of members with little or no training run the genealogy program, and consequently they will always be screwing up and putting Jewish names into the database, that might lower the heat from the public, but then also discredit the whole notion of accurate records and validity of doing temple work for specific individuals.

What makes you think they always use full names? I've been dead dunked for "John" and "Jared" and other first names only.

Ron

In the prayer circle they put a bunch of sick folks' names in a bag and just say one prayer for the whole bag of 'sicks' why not just print out ALL of their genealogical records once a year...shove 'em in a bag and have it all done by one person. Obviously, Anne Frank had been dead dunked, endowment yada yada several times so even if someone was already baptized on the list..it won't hurt to do it again.

So stupid all of it. It's right up there with having to take the lid off the bottle of Olive Oil to bless it. The God who created the Universe can't seem to get a blessing in if the lid is on?

but evil apostates like me. My dear old mum has given my name for the addition to the pillow for years. Ahhh.. such great comfort knowing my name is surrounded by robed, aproned, women-veiled faces, all holding hands in their secret handshake... to my benefit!

Doesn't the BIble say God numbers every hair on your head.

So why don't they just say, "for the unbaptized who are waiting.."

We all know the answer to that. Mormon had to differentiate their spiritual product from others. They needed secret sauce, special "meat" ingredients to their rituals that people could not get anywhere else...a plastic card that says I'm good. A product guarantee. Something substantial for the 10%, a costume for the privileged, God's elect.

It's appeal to the ego and millions sacrifice a personal life for this other life to come. What a sad con that is!

And it bends your mind. Look at Romney--for all his good looks there is something insincere about him. Hey--that's what you give up to be in a cult. The ability to say, "Hey, God doesn't need us to be doing this--it's meaningless if you believe we have an all powerful God who sorts things out. He can sort this out as well...."

There have to be activities that go on in the temple "of a religious nature" to qualify for their assets to be held in the form of property. Lord knows they don't even serve tea, so what are people going to do there?

You come up with a better answer and I'm sure the Q15 will consider it.

Anagrammy

Plastic smile, plastic hair, plastic "values". It appears that even in his biography all anyone could say is that they never really knew him.

Can't go to the temple or heaven without paying 10%. Who knew Club Heaven had a cover charge?

Years ago I was working in Arizona and went to the Mesa temple. The name I was given was Juan with the date of 1792. The little white slip had simply "Juan, 1792". Even as a TBM. that seemed absurd. I momentarily gave a thought that it covered everyone named Juan born in 1792 LOL. What a waste of time.

Dead-dunking is just busy work to get people to the temple and pay their 10%. They could use initials or one name only if they wanted to.

> Why does the church need to use actual names of deceased people?

The rationale is that people should help with the "work". It's the usual service, sacrifice, etc., but of course we know all temple ordinances manipulate people's love for their family, and concern over an afterlife to get them to pay $$tithing$$. Also, ironically, properly identifying ancestors by name, along with the dates, and locations of their birth, marriage, death, etc. should prevent duplication. Some members do not care or pay attention, and redo it anyway.


> Someone said there is a list of names so many
> people get baptized over and over again.

TSCC has been creating databases for decades so the members can check them to prevent duplication, and it has helped, but not stopped it. Now submission is computerized with TempleReady. I don't know what improvements have been made, but years ago when I used it, it would find matches, and ask if they were the same person. Back then, technically a name could still be resubmitted.

> How does the church plan to baptize people if there is no written record of them?

TSCC says this is what the millennium is for.

> If the deceased woman has been married more than
> once, how does the church decide who she gets sealed to?

She is sealed to every husband she was married to, and is supposed to choose one.

> I realize dead-dunking is just temple busy work to
> get members to pay tithing, but when fictional
> characters get baptized, it's hard to see how the
> ritual, as it stands now, is sacred.

I think most of those are done as jokes, but a small number could be name changes. Temple work is supposed to be done from the name on the birth record, but members could submit work for a changed name. Technically, the many people who have changed their name to jeezus' could have their work done with his name.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2012 08:11PM by atheist&happy:-).