In order to maintain some quality of life in my house, I agreed to meet with the "bishop".

First meeting was my straightforward but friendly attempt to explain to the bishop that:

1. Joseph Smith made it up.

2. First vision problems

3. gold seeker problems

4. book of abraham problems

5. book of mormon problems

He actually listened to much of it. At least I thought he did.

At one point he chimes in and starts to ask me about how I feel about the internet and it's effect on my loss of "faith". I respond. He than asks me how often I view porn on the internet.

Note..not "whether" I do.

Of course this makes an uncomfortable situation moreso. I explain to him that part of the problem with the church is that normal joes like him, think they have god's power and "authority" receive revelation and make judgements.

He begins a lecture about pornography.

I leave.

Wife asks/begs that I meet with the bishop and with her.

I tell her I am done and don't give the church any credence. Great difficulty ensues.

Nonetheless, I agree that if he wants to visit our house as a guest/neighbor I can do that, but not as a holy visitor.

She agrees.

He visits. and...in my home with my wife present begins to talk about the effects that porn can have on a relationship and a testimony. His demeanor and language leads my wife to think that there was some type of confession on my part in the previous meeting.

A mess - I showed him the door.

My point.

Facts don't matter to the lord's annointed.

The only fact that matters is that if you are married, in the church, but have doubts, you are looking at porn and it has caused you to lose your testiphony.

They will fling this around in bishopric meeting, in front of your wife and imply it in most conversations about you whether they have any proof or not.

You are a porn addict if you doubt - just accept it and move on.

I hope your wife realized what was happening as you showed him the door, or at least that you explained it to her afterwards. He clearly lost his privilege to be a guest in your house, and shouldn't be allowed near your children (if you have any).

my wife understands my position generally

she understands my arguments.

she cannot let go of the upbringing/feeling/social pressure from family and friends

the fact that the book of abraham is based on a funerary transcript that is readily available has no bearing on her decision to attend and participate in church as a result

i am convinced that for many - participation in the lds religion is primarily driven by a need to maintain social status and acceptance - needs developed during teen years that are never shed - many members even those, that are successful in a "worldly" sense can't shake it.

because the need to be "accepted" is so strong they have to find other reasons why people would leave the church other than it is a fraud. otherwise their world crumbles.

she can't shake it either.

Almost makes me glad I was treated like scum as a member. I sure didn't get anything socially out of church then, so I know I'm not missing anything at all, now that I know it's a fraud.

the truth is... Wrote:
>
> i am convinced that for many - participation in
> the lds religion is primarily driven by a need to
> maintain social status and acceptance - needs
> developed during teen years that are never shed -
> many members even those, that are successful in a
> "worldly" sense can't shake it.

This is true, and is why many TBMs are impervious to rational argument. They aren't members for rational reasons, so rational argument is superfluous.

But there are emotional arguments that can be made against 'the church' that can prevail upon a wavering spouse. Money/tithing, for example. No callings equals more time with each other and the kids is another example. Freedom from feeling guilty about small, insignificant things is another. (My wife use to torture herself merely because she didn't like writing in a journal, but was to afraid to forgo the pastime for fear of losing some vague, future, blessing.)

Just goes to show why you don't take your case against Mormonism to these clowns.

They ALWAYS shoot the messenger.

Someone who uses a specific guilt mechanism is already sold that it is an area in which guilt is felt. That is, they feel guilt and assume others do to on the same matter.

When someone pulls the maniguiltrip, turn this around on them right away:

"Porn? Why did you bring this up? Are you troubled by it at home?"

They do feel guilt about it, so turning the table will get the subject pulled fairly quickly.

I dodged the porn bullet when I replied honestly...

"I don't have a problem with viewing porn." and I left it up to them how to interpret that statement.

My bishy was having marrital problems, so he lectured me on that.

Be patient with her too. I was very social in church and loved my friends I had. It's hard very hard. I can't believe I ever even saw the light I was so brainwashed. It was a miracle with me realizing it was all a lie. It was hard to chew on at first and my husband was patient and that helped.

They always assume it was something that lead us away. Idiots.

Seems like he's trying to make you think your doubts about Mormonism are because of you, not because of the religion itself.

And why is he using porn as a weapon of choice?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2012 04:30PM by happyexmormon.

The word has come down from the Lord's self-anointed that porn is the reason for any and all nonconforming behavior.

The right answer may be; Just because you have a problem with pornography doesn't mean taht I do.
If enough members replied with that statement when asked about porn maybe they would stop asking the question.

similar to your statement.
but...

it is difficult to respond at all to a stated assumption.
if there is no question - there is no real way to respond.
if you respond to readily or loudly - you are protesting too much, if you don't respond loudly enough or at all - you must be admitting.

whether you reply to an accusation or assumption is probably irrelevant in this context though.

the point is...

if you are a male, a member of record, and you express real doubt, you are branded a porn lover.

you are branded as a porn lover whether you are ever accused of it formally.

the assumption has already been made. as Stray Mutt implies - the decision to brand the doubting, male member of record was made on high in Salt Lake before you ever viewed porn or didn't view porn.

you just are the moment you let your feelings be known.

the entire relief society believes it too be true because they hear you are having doubts. oh...he must have a problem with porn.

your wife's sister believes it and doesn't say anything to anyone but her husband (partially to keep him in line)

it is a safety mechanism for them.

it protects their belief system.

it is very destructive

but you cannot escape it.

you just have to accept it and move on.

As others have alluded to it sounds like the dear “porn obsessed” bishop is projecting his own undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else and you just happen to be his current target. Plus it immediately puts you on the defensive and removes the focus off the real elephant in the room…that the Church is not what claims to be.

It’s a real manipulative BS dodge game that’s intended to make your wife doubt you and not the church. Now you’ll need to continue to reassure you wife that while you’ve changed your mind in regards to the church that you remain unchanged in regards to your feelings about her and that she’ll continue to remain Number #1 in your life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2012 03:15PM by davesnothere.

Someone who no longer gave a damn could easily say "My only problem with porn is so much of it so badly done."

Though it's often fun to counter "Porn demeans women!" with "So guy-on-guy porn is OK? Great!"

When I called my mom and put it all out there, that I no longer believe, and presented my case.. After being silent with everything I said, she finally chimed in and asked "are you looking at porn?". Then she asked if I was gay. I then realized that no explanation would ever suffice to her. It had to be something I had done to chase the spirit away and lose my testimony. It sucks knowing they are judging me this way, giving no credit to facts or my explanations. I hate this stupid cult.

Next opportunity tell them you are addicted to something way worse than Pornography on the Internet.

....Church History!

This reminded me of the ONE time I met with an LDS social services counselor as part of trying to save my marriage.. after I left the church.

This lady had previously met with my wife several times, and now wanted a one on one with me.. before meeting with us together. OK... I agreed

So.. we talk for about 1 hour. The discussion quickly left any marriage issues and she began to focus on my reasons for leaving the church. I went into all the usual issues,, polyandry, Book of Abraham.. yada yada.. NO discussion AT ALL about any kind of sex issues or discussion of Porn.. nothing like that AT ALL.

So.. then we meet together.. the first thing out of her mouth .. is that clearly the problem in my marriage is MY ADDICTION TO SEX.!!

I'm like.. what the F&%$!! seriously? Where in the hell did she get this? I was floored.

But she stuck to it.. yep. that was our problem.. I was a sex addict. I couldn't believe it. People.. I considered myself a normal guy in my early forties with a normal libido.. Yes.. My wife "took care " of me.. at least once a month.. whether I needed it or not... seriously... This lady never once asked me about any sex or porn or any issue even remotely like that .. and I'm proclaimed to be a SEX ADDICT. It was rediculous.

expressed doubt.

that is all that is required.

Take a computer expert to his home and say to the bish that he can have anyone view your computer HD if my friend here can view his computer HDs (all computers in the home). Has to happen now. I bet he shits. Your guy goes first.