Ok, here's the short story. My wife and I ha agreed that I should remain a member at least until things start coming out. I've been off and on the past few years with the church. It was about 6 months ago that I openly told others I was not active and had issues with the church. A few days ago my wife was called into the bishops office for a calling issue. We don't have callings right now and the bishop wants to give us both a calling. My wife didn't want to lie, and I wouldn't want her to either, and said she would love to but I wouldn't accept. Then he asked and it all came out. Now he wants to meet (anywhere and anytime) just to speak. Before he became bishop, he also struggled with the church on specific issues. He wants to meet as a friend rather than a bishop. What do y'all think about this? I don't believe the church has any authority over me, but I am willing to do this because my wife wants me to. I lve my wife and don't want to lose her, so I am willing. She already told him to look st www.mormonthink.com to get the info I have had issues with. This could be interesting but should I have my letter of resignation with me or just let things play as they will? Many thanks to your responses. I may or may not able to respond until later today, I'm working a 12 hour shift. Thanks.

Spry for the typos, the iPhone only recognizes some of my keystrokes because of how fast I'm typing. Lol. Thanks in advance.

Also, some other info about our ward. We have had others in the recent past that have left the church. We are I. A ward that is full of great and spacious homes with egos to match them. They go to church to talk about their latest safari they felt the spirit on or how europe was when they retraced many Christian artifacts. My wife backs me, but obviously she wants me to be TBM again and that just ain't happening. The bishop understands that and I think honestly he may have a few doubts himself. It may be beneficial in that light... Although I do assume he will try to tell me how he got over some stuff. I've been struggling with this religion since I was 14. I left the church then too but didn't realize I did the right thing then. I ended up serving a mission and had more doubts then that we're brought to my attention. Needless to say its been a struggle to believe I something so far fetched. He can't get my mind changed, but maybe I can take him with me. Haha. I had a bishop go inactive and leave the church on my mission, maybe I can do it again? Ok that sounds a bit harsh. Thanks for y'alls input.

Yes, my wife will be present. I'm hoping she sees what I do. I am planning on putting everything on the table and exposing it for what it is and hoping she will see it. If not, oh well. It was worth a try. :)

justbreathe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spry for the typos, the iPhone only recognizes
> some of my keystrokes because of how fast I'm
> typing. Lol. Thanks in advance.

Internet spelling rule: If I can guess what you meant then you did it right.

"Bishop, imagine you are a missionary. You are teaching a family that is nominally Catholic. They seem receptive. You have issued the baptismal challenge but they are still acting a bit insecure.

"Now, at this point would you want them to commit to baptism and make a date, or would you want them to sit down for an in-depth discussion with their priest?"

There are two things I like about the Church: its face.

I say that if you would enjoy the interaction, go. If you wouldn't enjoy it, don't. It's that easy for me.

I actually enjoy talking with the Bish, SP, EQ Pres, Missionaires, etc. I tell them what I think, they tell me what they think, then they ask if we can have a prayer and I tell them to go for it if they would like. I roll my eyes to myself at a lot of what they say, especially during the prayer, but I don't mind.

I'm a bit more social than others, and I love sharing ideas back and forth. I've talked with the missionaries a lot of times as they try to save me. Even out on the street, I'll stop and say hi to them.

I'm a former TBMish person who stopped going to church about three years ago. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't.

...these meetings are a waste of time. When I was on my way out the branch president met with me several times and it was never about the issues I had. It was all about getting me to either ignore the issues or put them on a shelf ("we will know about these things in the next life"). Also,it was NEVER the Mormon Church as an issue...it was always me. Joseph Smith may have married other men's wives but "...let's talk about your scripture reading and how much you are praying. Are you doing your hometeaching?"

The MAIN reason that any LDS leader wants to meet with you is to get you back to TBM status. From the years that I've spent on this board reading stories like yours in which the priesthood leader requests a "meeting" with the individual it is rare for these meetings to end up as anything but that.

If you meet with him just have this in mind. Best of luck to you at this difficult time.

I would not meet with him unless you call him first and ask him this one question. “If the church was not true would you want to know about that?” If he answers yes then say we can meet but he cannot try to persuade us back. “This is only an informational meeting for you bishop, friend to friend. If you bear testimony or take on the mantle of bishop to try to save us mid discussion then the meeting is over that very second.” Tell him “we are not to be judged, told we are wrong, told we have lost the spirit or any other untruthful cliché taught to members about why folks leave, or the meeting is over that very second.”

If he answers "no" or is silent or changes the subject, then you are done talking. No meeting.

If he can’t come “as a friend” then he is not a friend. If you meet make this clear ahead of time. Otherwise it is like others have said. You are wasting your time. He has accepted the calling. He wants to feel he made the right decision even though he was previously questioning. He will defend his position whether he knows he’s right or not.

Good luck.

BTW. You’re not eight years old anymore and neither is the wife. When the Bishop “calls you in” tell him to stick it! Or rather tell the excec secretary that you will do the calling thank you very much.

He ain’t in charge of squat and it is pure religious arrogance to think that you are at his beck and call. Time to be the adults that the church brainwashed out of you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2012 11:48AM by AmIDarkNow?.

If I was trying to be Prophetic I would predict that the meeting will be based around him telling you how he overcame his struggles with specific aspects of the Church, and imparting on you his exhortation that you can too.

I would not "discuss" my outlook or my life with a bishop, no matter what the circumstances.

Don't let him meddle in yours, especially since your wife does not seem to back you 100%

These kinds of meeting with leaders of the Church are rather pointless and usually unproductive. As far as they are concerned, The Church doesn’t have any issues…you do!

They have no real concrete answers to your questions. This is all about pointing out your failure to believe and to interrogate you about what personal behaviors (ie, sins) of yours that has brought about the loss of your testimony and belief.

In the eyes of the Church, failure to believe always rest squarely upon your shoulders. The Church believes that the only correct answer is “IT’s TRUE!” Any other answer you reach is incorrect and you failed somewhere in the process

Maybe this guy still has his doubts?

Most likely it will end up as a brow-beating session with all the beatings directed at you but there could still be some benefit there. Will your wife be present? Having the bishop unload all over you may get her riled up and feeling like she needs to defend her husband.

Please return and report! I love hearing how these meetings actually turn out.

Stunted

Whatever you do, do it on your terms in your own way.

as a friend and outside of any church building. Keep it friendly. Nothing official will come of it. And yeah maybe he has doubts too. Bishops resign all the time too.

Maybe a good missionary moment time for you. Please return and report.

why is your personal religious beliefs or non beliefs any of his business?

I know, it's a long tradition in Mormonism to talk to the bishop about almost anything, but ...why ? He has no training to advise you on anything but to pray and read the scriptures. This is his second job which is a volunteer position and he has absolutely no entitlement to input in your personal decisions.

In short: it's none of his business.

This is COMPLETELY up to you.

Unlike other posters here, I PERSONALLY would meet with the Bishop for the following reasons:

1) It's refreshing to get these things off your chest and out in the air. I hated pretending to be a believer when I wasn't. It was like a great weight was lifted off my chest when I came out about my disbelief.

2) You are planting seeds whether it looks like it or not. Of course the Bishop is going to act like nothing you say is matters to him but you never know what he is thinking deep down. Bishops can become ex-Mormons too!!! We have some on this board (while they were Bishop!!). The Mormonthink.com was an awesome idea.

3) Your wife can see that the Bishop REALLY has no answers for you. She can check that off her little list.

4) You will probably not be harassed about church stuff (at least as not as much as you would otherwise) now that he knows you are an unbeliever. You can coast more. You can probably do the stuff you rather do, like service activities, Boy Scouts etc. instead of stuff you don't like teaching priesthood lessons, temple crap and so on.

5) I think the church/Mormons NEED to know why people leave. Otherwise, how are they gonna learn? They need to know that people aren't leaving because of sin, laziness, or offense. Its time to burst their ignorant little bubble.

Be CONFIDENT and HAPPY about your new outlook on life. Don't get emotional. Do NOT confess to any sin. Do NOT let him control or manipulate the conversation at ALL. If he does, call him on it.

DON'T meet with him inside the church, it's his comfort zone, not yours. Most libraries have Study Rooms, or better yet, at your house.

When mormons don't control as much of the circumstances as they need to, it's over.

Yes my wife will be present, and I'm hoping she will see what ye church truly is. I will be putting everything on the table (which I have not done with her yet) and if he lashes out at me, I'll take it and hope my wife sees it for what it is, a fraud.

Calling your wife in first for a job was a ruse, how could the bish not know about your inactivity?
I'm surpised your wife even agreed to meet with him.

If the next meeting accomplishes anything it will be to drive a bigger wedge between you and your wife.

Word of advice: Dont spring any surprises on your wife if both of you meet with the bishop. And what I mean by surprises, is any information that the two of you havent discussed privately beforehand.Bad, bad idea! That could really backfire on you and the end result is most likely to be something entirely opposite of what you would want or hoped for! I speak from personal experience, trust is vital in a relationship and if you dump on her unwelcomed and unexpected information in front of a potential spiritual ally (the bishop), potentially the lines of trust and loyalty are going to be blurred for her!

Inviting church leaders into a marriage for ANY reason is the height of insanity.

They never help and they usually manage to make things worse.

Hopefully he just wants to explore his own doubts. If your spouse is going to be present--no way is that the case, it is an agenda.

He will try to find your weakness or what "pricks" you. In ordinary terms he is trying to find what part of mormon fear and guilt works on you and try to reactivate that to control you. Good Luck, ignore his agenda as much as you can and try to plant cog dis on him.

so stupid. you have nothing to do with this bishop. you didn't break any laws. this man does not have any authority over you. Don't play his game and give him power, just ignore him

The church leaders have nothing to offer anyone. They are leaders of an organization built on lies by a conman that has survived multiple generations now. They are brainwashed and/or they are ego stroked by their involvement in the church.

Don't go to them for "help" and don't discuss your beliefs or lack therof. The discussion will be pointless. You will be speaking Russian and they will be speaking Chinese. You will be talking past each other not TO each other.

But of course this is my opinion only and you are the one who decides.

My wife did lay down the rules with the bishop because she knows how I feel about it. For the most part, I have told her about all my issues with the church, I just haven't gone in depth with them. I did warn her that all will be on the table with those issues. She doesn't believe any bishop or stake president should get in between anyone in their marriage. They aren't therapists. I was proud that my wife laid down the rules with Jim for it to work though. Honestly, I have no doubt that he will try to get me back in, that's fine. I am agnostic and have no problem with people believing in something so long as it doesn't harm my family. Thanks for all your support and I am glad to have this place to vent a bit. I'll post what happens next week. The appointment is on Tuesday night, my house.

Just realized the iPhone corrected a few words, sorry again. Haha.

You already know that the bishop has no answers, but ask your wife "What 2 or 3 claims MUST be true for the church to be what it says it is?" Concentrate on those issues. Tell her ahead what you expect the bishop to say or, better yet, have her review those topics on MormonTHink.

The ONLY thing you want to know from the bishop is:

Will you undermine my marriage by encouraging my wife to think of me as 'less than' husband because I don't believe? Would you even go so far as to encourage divorce? Or will you to encourage her to respect and love me despite our differences in religious belief?

Will you undermine my relationships with my children by encouraging them to think I am not a good father because I don't believe? Will you encourage ward members to approach my children without my knowledge or permission? Will you allow church members to treat my children poorly because their father doesn't believe? Or will you respect my position as father by making sure that all contact with my children is with my knowledge and permission? Will you put an immediate stop to any comments to my children that they need to 'be strong' or insinuation that they are responsible to try and "bring me back into the fold"?

Will you allow speculation and gossip about me and my family in church meetings? Will you disrepect my decision by encouraging/allowing ward members to scheme about ways to "bring me back into the fold"?

Make sure your wife hears his answers. You can turn it into a win-win for you. If he assures you that he will support your marriage and family and does so....great. If he assures you that he will support you but then doesn't.....your wife will see the hypocracy first hand. If he says he cannot support your marriage and family because you no longer believe....call him on it...so much for a family church!