Summary: Grew up in the church, did BYU, mission, tried the whole "fake it until you make it" and got really good at faking it, but never really made it. Had enough doubts to consider leaving in 1985 when I was fresh out of BYU, married and had two kids, but stayed "for the kids" due to pressure from my wife. Now, the kids are all grown and I can't fake it any more. I haven't been to church since July 2011.

Now: The last two weeks have been an emotional rollercoaster -- and not the fun kind. The kind that scares the hell out of you. There's no simple summary because it is 25 years of depression, 25 years of repressing my true religious views, a marriage that was almost entirely based on the church, etc.

So, here I am, 52 years old. At the low points of the last two weeks I've been suicidal. At the just barely higher than those lowest points, I've been ready to walk out of my marriage and start over.

The "endure to the end" mentality seems to have me in a captive orbit. I'm also a people-pleaser and I don't like to rock the boat. I'm also 52. (Oh, I already mentioned that?)

My wife will never leave the church and I'll never go back. I thought we could live-and-let-live, but I'm starting to think that the church will always be a point of contention in our lives. She feels like she has to choose between me vs. our kids (who are all active) and the rest of her family (who are all uber-active).

Question: Is it too late to give it all up and start over?

NO, i decided 10 younger than you so my kids are still at home, and my wife was going to choose the church over me...then she decided I wasn't the devil incarnate. But if that is not the case for you it us never to late to start over. i just would not be in a hurry, it can be depressing to change decades of behavior, even when you know it is better. hang in there. there was a good post about suicide a couple of days ago.

Answer: Not it's not too late.

What do you want? You have the opportunity to be the most free and happy you've ever been in your life.

There are definitely some parallels between us. I'm about 40 and still have kids to raise - youngest is 6 - I decide I was done faking it last summer and resigned last fall. My wife and I mostly get along reasonably well so I'm sticking around at least until the kids are raised. If we figure things out and get our marriage working better and the church becomes less of a wedge not more, perhaps we'll stick together until one of us dies.

I have no idea what I would choose if I were in your position. I suspect at the end of the day I would decide to stay, but I don't know for sure.

Why does your wife have to choose between you vs. the kids and her family?

ronas Wrote:
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> What do you want?

I want to live life. The past 30 years have been church, kids, church. I feel like life passed me by. I got married young, had one child and one on the way before even graduating from college. I've spent over 20 years as a scout leader and I love the outdoors, but the church just sucks the life out of you. (Sure, go on a camp out every month, but don't stay over Sunday, and in fact, you'd better be back by mid-afternoon Saturday so you can do your yard work so you don't do it on Sunday.)

I just want to go out and do things. My wife admittedly wants to do nothing but stay home and go to church. She has no curiosity about the world or other people.

> Why does your wife have to choose between you vs.
> the kids and her family?

Part of it is that if she goes to church then she's upset because I go out and do things without her. But, if she goes out and does things with me on Sunday, then our adult children (especially the one still living at home) and her parents judge her for it (and generally chew her out a little about it).

So, if I go do things without her then I'm destroying our marriage, but if she goes and does things with me then I'm dragging her down to hell.

She's told me (at least three times this week alone), "My parents did everything together." That's her defense when I go do something (like go hiking or out to lunch) without her. Of course, my answer is, "Bullshit. Your dad was bishop for 10 years, councilor in the SP for 5 and SP for 10. He spent 30-40 hours a week for 25 years outside the home without your mom."

It's not like I'm out having an affair on Sunday, but I get treated as if I am. I'm unfaithful because I'm not at church with her.

I will admit that I've eroded her faith. I'm a total atheist now. She teaches Gospel Doctrine in Sunday School (but only every other week) and last year was the New Testament. She would ask me about some of the hard parts of the NT and I would show her Bart Ehrman's answers. (Ehrman is a New Testament scholar and former minister, now agnostic/atheist.) She didn't like the fact that I pointed out that people make up shit to control other people and then canonize it as scripture.

So, she has doubts and cracks in her faith, but will never, ever leave the church. I like the quote, "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."

Hell, I've been pissed off for years. Just in the last month or two I was getting over the anger. I basically said, "OK, I'm done with Mormonism. No more reading church history books, no more internet forums, nothing." But, the reality is that I can never be done because I'm married to her. On the other hand, if I can't get away from the constant Mormon barrage, then I'm going to continue to be pissed off.

...and now I'm just rambling and ranting, so I'll stop. Sorry.

So I'm reading the big issue here is that you and your wife are having a huge fight over what you do with your Sundays?

She wants to be with you, but she wants it to be doing what she wants to do? So she is unwilling to give you the freedom to do what you want with your time on Sunday under the guise of she can't do it with you are she will get in trouble with the kids?

That CAN'T be all there is to it, right? That must just be an example of a lot of things bugging you but is the one at the forefront right now? Otherwise it is super annoying and I can see where there are a ton of emotional undertones for both of you, but it seems like there are a number of ways the two of you could work around this? It seems like at the end of the day she's just going to need to give you some space, and your going to have to take it and not feel guilty about it even if she plays a much of emotional manipulation games. I'm kind of guessing, but it sounds like what you are fed up with is being manipulated into not doing what you want your whole life by both the church and your wife.

Have you thought of going to a marriage counselor?

First, I'm so sorry that you find yourself if this situation. Especially at this time of life. I'm 58, and understand how difficult it can be to make radical changes. It doesn't seem fair. I always thought that by this age life would calm down a bit, and it would be a time to enjoy the fruits of past labors. Sometimes that happens, but leaving the church a few months ago really stirred the pot. I was lucky that my husband left with me.
This is a journey you will have to go on, and find the right answers for you. The good news is, your answers will come from you, not the church.

I've known people who started over that are older than you. It's not easy, but I think they would tell you that it was worth it. It is possible. I think you would find your journey would be much easier if you find yourself a good non mormon counselor to help talk you through this. They can help you sort out your thoughts, and keep you on track for what you want for your future.

There are many people on this site who have been where you are, or are currently in the same situation. I think you will find a lot of support here. It can be very helpful to talk to people who know exactly how you feel and what you're dealing with.

Mia Wrote:
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> I was lucky that my husband left with me.

I'm very jealous of couples that leave together. When I first told her of my disaffection it caused a lot of stress, so I bottled that up inside and let it eat away at me without talking about it for almost 20 years.

But, I've been very open about everything for the past 4 years. She's read some of the same books that I have, but she's also refused to read some and also started some then shut them after the first chapter because they challenged her beliefs.

My heart goes out to you. I know what it is like to feel you are in a rollercoaster of emotions and thoughts.

You said that your wife is willing to do things with you on Sunday but what holds her back is the adult child and her family, this suggests that you two are not as far apart as you think. Maybe you can compromise, she can teach one Sunday and the Sunday she does not teach you can plan something together.

A sad realization for me about the church is that as a TBM I worried about appearances and other's opinions and because of that there were times I compromised what I really wanted. She's worried about what her family thinks. Remind her that the most important relationship is with you. Your child will sooner or later leave and the relatives also have their own lives.

Good luck to you,

"Is it too late to give it all up and start over?"

NO! It's not too late. I'm doing it at the same age as you. at about 52 it went to pot. 28 years, five kids and she would never leave the church. She is married to the church and always would be.

She divorced me. (Guess why?) I was the one that thought I should "endure" because it was the right thing to do.

Divorce was the best thing that could have happened. There are hard times ahead for sure and there were times I wanted to drive straight to the bottom of the lake just to be free of all the insanity that follows leaving the church. Her side of the family are all pioneer stock spread throughout S. Utah. I had to stop caring what they thought.

but what I learned (thank you RFM and all exmo-s out there) is that life really does get better. It's been a slow two steps forward one step back process but I'll be damned if it's not getting better. All the while the insanity keeps right on going.

The trick is to remove yourself emotionally from it. It takes time to do that. Remember this:

You Are Not Responsible For How Others Chose to Think and Live Their lives and That Includes Family!

Every time I go past an LDS church I think "Thank F-ng god I'm not part of that mess any more".

I resigned Oct 2008. Divorced Nov 2010. (actually divorced the day I resigned in her mind)

This week I signed up for sailing classes. I plan to sail. I also have recently met a great woman. I had no idea that a couple could be so honest and open about everything in a partnership without preconceived requirements for obedience to religious dogma.

mcarp. you may be in the same position now as I was then. I looked into the future and nothing on my bucket list included my wife being involed or supportive of.

Breathe. It will work out. Come here for advice or to any trusted friends that are non-mormon. No matter how close you may be to mormon friends you will always be looked at as the "cause" of the truble and your status will be "lesser than".

You are 52 mcarp. Whats on your bucket list? This is your new long term priority.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2012 08:13PM by AmIDarkNow?.

My nerves were so bad that my new neighbors thought I had Parkinsons. But life did return to nearly normal after a couple of years. Hang in there, one day at a time.

I don't know what the right answer is for you, but think about this: All you have is today and the rest of your life, who knows how long that is.

DH was having major doubts about the church when he was in law school and much to my regret I talked him out of it and back into the church. Then I figured it out and he was sucked into the whole priesthood thing and got recognition and good jobs and reassurances he was on the fast track to being something really special.

And I knew it was all a lie. So I waited years and years and he finally figured it out. Lost years in some ways--our kids would have been better off without the church--at least that is what I believe.

If there ever was a time to ask yourself what it is you really want it is now. Maybe it is worth it for your kids, but maybe not.

We left the church at age 40 and still deal with the flak from that. Did I mention we are approaching 70? Don't waste these wonderful years if you can help it.

Sending you hugs and kisses--I know so well that this isn't easy.

You might have another 40 years left in you. Why not make the most of them? I know when I hit 40, I was like "wow, I'd better start doing some of the things I want to do because I'm not getting any younger", and those things have really enriched my life. It's never too late.

I'm not suggesting you make any decisions about your marriage while you are in such turmoil. I think you should find a really good therapist (non-LDS, right?) and get some help sorting out your relationship. Some counseling just for you and your depression, and some marriage counseling (perhaps a different therapist for you vs. both). Figure out if you want to be with your wife.

It sounds like she has serious personal issues if she is so easily influenced by family members. But it's not right for her to expect YOU to give up ever doing fun things because SHE'S not up for it.

Hang it there, it can be rough on the way out of the church. Give yourself some things to look forward to to help you get through it. I would say, decide the kind of life you want to have and invite your wife to join you. If she just isn't on the same page, do them anyway. Maybe just try to do some things at a time when she isn't at church see if that makes a difference.

mcarp, hang in there! We are in the same crappy "ward" and have gone through basically the same bullshit! We even went to the same mission if that is a clue! If you need someone to talk to, I only live across the canal and we can talk! I am there for you if you need me. You are not alone in this. Email me at classivguy@yahoo.com and we can go get coffee or a beer if you want, so you can vent to someone if you want to and get things off your chest, okay?

Shazam101 Wrote:
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> mcarp, hang in there! We are in the same crappy
> "ward" and have gone through basically the same
> bullshit! We even went to the same mission if that
> is a clue!

Thanks, Shazam.

I am 30 and have a 5 year old. I have left the church but my husband still believes or at least thinks he does. I think he does question though. Our marriage is strained and I feel your pain. We are staying together for now. If we chose to seperate than we may wait until our child is out of the house. You need to ask yourself if you are happy in your marriage. Would you both be better off and happier finding someone else? Now that your kids are grown you don't need to fake the marriage for their behalf anymore. You can be free to live your life. You faked it long enough. Do you really love her? Does she love you? Have you tried therapy? I know what you mean about suicidal thoughts. There are times I wonder if life is worth living anymore. It is hard when you feel like you are the only one that has been enlightened and EVERYONE else is still in the dark. I feel very lonely and depressed most of the time. My entire family is hardcore in the church and I am viewed as the evil one. You are not alone :)

Seems like there are a lot of us in this situation. I'm in my mid 40s and will be about your age when my youngest leaves for college. DH and I have a tentative peace right now. I think he's so happy to have all the restrictions and requirements of the church off his back but he still believes and want our son to go on a mission and our kids to marry in the temple. He doesn't attend church but he still thinks Mormonism is the best way to live. I can see how it isn't and don't want our kids trapped in it. I think he's just enduring inactivity for because it's easier, hoping someday I'll change my mind. I don't think he can fully understand I won't ever change my mind. So I wonder what will happen in a few years because I can't see us ever settling this big gap between us. Not to mention the fact that while we are very good friends, we aren't a very good couple. Even without the church problems, we'd have a lot of problems.

I guess what I'm saying is hopefully it won't be too late to start over. Lots of people are in your situation. That doesn't mean it's fun to start over but it's your life and you shouldn't make yourself a human sacrifice. If you can find a way to have a happy one without reinventing yourself, great but don't be afraid to take the big risk because otherwise you are just as good as done with your life. And your life is too valuable to not get the best out of it. Sorry you are in such a situation but you aren't alone and you can win this one.

Never too late. Weigh the costs of each option. Either way it'll suck, but living honestly will suck less (and has more potential to get to a point where it doesn't suck at all.)

Life sucked for almost a year when I left the church. But you have to create a vacancy in your life to allow something ELSE (something better) to come in.

My life is so much better than it ever was in the church. I feel very lucky to be out.

I was where you are a few years ago. At that time I had done everything that you have and I was miserable in a marriage that had been out of love for many many years and the only thing holding us together were the kids. When my youngest turned 18 I knew I was finished living this lie. I was so depressed and felt so trapped that suicide was my choice to get out. I wrote a letter to each of my kids and my parents, took my gun and drove out to a remote area where I was going to end it all. I had decided that doing it like this would be best so that none of the people I cared about would find me like that.

After sitting there for two hours I finally realized that I didn't have the courage to do the dirty deed. I drove home with my tail between my legs feeling worse than ever. I didn't sleep that night and by morning I had decided that if I didn't have the guts to end it all then I had to make some changes because I was tired of living like that.

I did begin to make changes. I had stopped going to church several years earlier so that wasn't a problem but I began to do things that I wanted to do. I began to live for me and go places and do things that my ex TBM wife would not be caught dead doing. I started to feel better and actually enjoy life a little. That gave me courage and I finally told my ex that I wanted a divorce.

We divorced and since all the kids were grown up it was pretty fast and clean. I met someone while I was doing things for myself and now that the divorce was final I began to date her.

To shorten this story I will just say that she and I have been married for going on 2 years now, neither of us is religious and I have to tell you that life is the most amazing experience I have ever had. Every day is a new adventure and I love every minute of my life now. I am 55 and I started over a few years ago and I could not be happier. None of my kids are active in the church so that is a plus for me and they all accept me which is good because they are very important to me.

Yes you can start over and from my experience it is SO WORTH IT!!!!

Canttell Wrote:
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> I was where you are a few years ago. At that time
> I had done everything that you have and I was
> miserable in a marriage that had been out of love
> for many many years and the only thing holding us
> together were the kids. When my youngest turned
> 18 I knew I was finished living this lie. I was
> so depressed and felt so trapped that suicide was
> my choice to get out. I wrote a letter to each of
> my kids and my parents, took my gun and drove out
> to a remote area where I was going to end it all.
> I had decided that doing it like this would be
> best so that none of the people I cared about
> would find me like that.
>

Wow. Thanks for sharing that. I've had very similar feelings and I'm glad that things have worked out for you. Maybe there's hope for me after all. Seriously. Thanks.

Even though my then-husband and I left the church together, after our departure, we found out our reasons for getting married were Mormon-based and vastly different from the two people we had become. We divorced. Our kids were 6 and 8 at the time. It was hell leaving the church, adjusting somewhat, STILL PRETENDING WE HAD A GOOD MARRIAGE for another five years, and then through the divorce and beyond.

I saw a good therapist who helped me through the muck and helped me see my worth again as an individual and woman. Like you, I don't like pretending.

We've all been through this transition and yes, it sucks big time at first and gradually lessens through time. Does shit still hit? Yes. But we're able to better deal with the crap. I love everything that people have been stating to you. I'm only 49, just a few years younger than you and I still feel there's life ahead of me. You can do this and we'll help.

If you're in Salt Lake, please check out the Recovery Group at the Unitarian Church in Sandy through Bill Dobbs. They can be a physical support to you and we can be cyber supports. The people may also be able to recommend a professional to help you out one-on-one like I was supported through my initial recovery.

Good luck! We're here for you.

The times in life when I've been happiest with the outcome are when I've thought things through, made decisions, and acted in an organized, decisive manner to carry them out. Generally the outcome has been good, or failing that, it's had many good aspects and I've gained self respect for trying to solve my problem. The times when I've been least happy are when I've allowed myself to drift indecisively.

I would suggest counseling for both yourself and the both of you as a couple. I would also tell the adult child to either stop interfering with my marriage or to get out of the house. The in-laws should likewise be told to butt out. Honestly, I would leave all of them be in no doubt that I am a god-in-training of the wrathful, thunderbolt-throwing Jupiter variety should they continue to interfere.

I would be blunt with your wife and tell her that you are not going to have the kind of marriage that her mom and dad had. It's 2012 and plenty of couples do things seperately. If she can't live with that, then she's got some deciding to do. Be firm and clear to her that it's not all about her. The fairytale is over.

I want you to vigorously pursue happiness, however you may define it. You've gone along to get along for long enough. It's time to reach for the brass ring. You can be happy. But getting there may have its scary moments.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2012 08:35PM by summer.