Feeling some ex-Mormon guilt/paranoia at the moment. Comforting thoughts, please??

Is sex normal? At all?

My Mormon buddies aren't getting any. Over golf I learn that sex is the Holy Grail. And me, the apostate, I get laid like a rock star as often as I want. No shit.

My wife, a fellow exmo LOVES sex!

So, you like what? Anal? That doesn't just mean homosexual. Oral? That is not only homosexual. Bondage (don't get me started) that is not only homosexual.

As a special added bonus, let's review highly successful highly sexual people. Madonna, Cleopatra, Hugh Hefner, Einstein (Oh Jesus!), oh yeah mother fucking Josepphs Myth and Brigham Young.

So... go get laid!!!

better?

How about this?

Just about anything a Mormon has to say about sex, morality and what is or isn't abnormal, is completely ignorant, maladjusted, bullsh!t.

Because it naturally occurs within the animal world, not just in humans. It just is. It isn't bad. It isn't good. It just is.

Abnormal: go to a farm, zoo, on safari, or take a biology class and you will quickly find out that homosexuality is ubiquitous. Not to mention the bazillions of examples in the natural world of transexual, transgender species that can change genders and sexuality depending on need. Furthermore, look around at the people you know and love. Most of them at some point have had a distinctly homosexual experience. It is totally normal to be homosexual.

Immoral: is a man-made construct and there are as many meanings as there are humans. So who cares what anyone else thinks. And,if you think morality comes from god, assuming there is a god, if homosexuality is so darn important than why hasn't s/he been a little more clear about it or why did s/he create so many species where gender and sexuality are so flexible?

What are you worried about? If you aren't homosexual then stop worrying about it- it's none of your business what others do. If you are homosexual then stop worrying about it- put on a couple Gaga songs and enjoy your life.

If you go to Sea World, and watch the dolphin tank for more then five minutes, you will likely see male dolphins engage in homosexual sex hundreds of times. I learned two things about dolphins from my trip to Sea World. They are horny creatures with no sexual control, and their penises would make Ron Jeromy proud. I also learned a third thing, I will never volunteer to swim with dolphins.

Israel in the days of the old testament was actually a Greek country, not a Semitic one. The Jews were the new kids on the block, and they were trying to wrestle control of the land away from the Greeks, who were the people that the bible refereed to as Philistines, and who had been there much longer with much stronger claims to the land then the Jews.

Homosexuality played an important role in Greek culture. So when the Jews were trying to demonize the Greeks, and show why they were favored by God, and the Greeks were not, they started to make claims that homosexuality was unnatural and not of God.

Christianities whole case against gays is based on three thousand year old war propaganda, so that one people could justify the taking of another people's land and their later genocide of that race.

The Old Testament is late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age. It has nothing to do with Archaic or Hellenistic Greece. The Philistines were not Greek. Canaan or Israel was not Greek in the days of the Old Testament. It is a little hard to date much of it since much of it is myth, but it certainly is not Greek.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2012 06:26AM by No Mo.

I had heard that the Philistine people were a Greek Mediterranean people. I remember the Old Testament frequently condemns non-Jews for practicing sodomy, and if memory serves me right, calls some of them Hellenist. If I am mistaken, then I withdraw my statement about the Philistines. However, I do know that Mediterranean culture did not stop in Italy and Greece. I will recheck my sources, I was using them from memory, and did not look them up, always a mistake. Ignore what I said until I come back with more.

However, I still believe that the ancient Jews were condemning homosexuality, because of conflict with Roman and Greek, perhaps it was later Alexander influence, and they needed propaganda points. It makes more sense then an invisible man coming down and telling them he doesn't like gay sex.

So, yeah, not Greek. Palestinian. This cannot necessarily be linked to modern Palestinians, but rather the tribe who lived in Palestine at the time.

The Greek influence we find in Judeo-Christian world is far more apparent in the NT than the OT.

:)

The walrus at Sea World in SD masturbates like a repressed Mormon girl. Quite an education for the kiddies. I didn't know animals masturbated, either.

"I will never volunteer to swim with dolphins"

there are people that actualy seek out the sexual encounter with Dolphins!!

Just study everything Jesus said about it in the New Testament

(Nothing)

There is nothing wrong but thinking makes it so.

The only reason you think it might be immoral is because you got told it was by some religious control freaks your whole life.

Even today, jackasses like Pat Robertson are going around saying things that people internalize. Now he has said that homosexuality is similar to a demonic possession!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/27/pat-robertson-homosexuality-demonic-possession_n_1382163.html

I mean, really, these kinds of people are doing damage and they are hurting people. They never have to be accountable for the pain and intolerance they cause.

Don’t allow those echoes of misinformed religious teachings to rattle around in your head. Recognize where they came from: a bunch of religious people wanting to make cultural standards uniform by enforcing their beliefs.

The more you learn about biology, the more diversity you will recognize and accept. It's pretty amazing and should be celebrated. It's not like humans are going extinct anytime soon. Besides, it is high time that men stop viewing sex as access to a reproductive vessel (woman).

Immoral is conning them into giving you money they could use to provide for the children you conned them into having before they were ready.

Immoral is coercion.

There's a lot of immoral stuff going on in this world -- homosexuality is not it.

How do you know?

Seriously?

Stop listening to the lies you've been programmed with and think about it logically. As long as you are engaging in consensual activities with another adult you are harming no one. (But please practice safe sex and try not to get any STDs. :)

Immorality hurts someone else. Homosexuality, ie sex between two consenting adults of the same sex, hurts no one. Therefore it is not immoral.

Hurts no one so long as they remember the lube.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

There is quite a large list of animal species that have homosexual members

A fundamentalist Christian once told me "people are homosexual because they're rebelling against God." After I told him that was the most idiotic statement ever, and made a few jokes about how there are a million other ways to rebel against the Big Guy, he agreed with me. Said he learned it from his parents, but they must have been wrong.

I don't give much thought to people's orientation. The person is more important than the label. I find this is a much healthier and more comfortable approach than guilt and paranoia.

When you hug someone is it immoral?

Love and attraction aren't immoral...

You can't choose who you love or who you are attracted to...

I don't know the validity of this, but I was once told that homosexuality is actually natures way of fighting overpopulation of a species. HHHHmmmmmmm.....sounds natural and reasonable.

If you can consider the matter objectively, without the immature "ick" reaction--It's not just about the physical act, but who you are attracted too, who you fall in love with, the drive which informs your whole being. I'm gay, and believe me, I had no choice in the matter. It is an indescrete part of my being. I can assure you, I'm gay when I am not having sex, if I were to remain a virgin, never knowing the loving touch of another human being, would that be acceptable to you? If in every other way I lived a "moral" and "normal" life, would I be comparable to an equally celibate, moral heterosexual, or would my innate nature condemn me in your eyes?

No wonder so many gay youth commit suicide.
"Abnormal" can be arguable, but of course being overly tall or short, or colorblind or left-handed are in the same boat. Being heterosexual is certainly no guarantee of being moral and normal. I suppose it's something that you ask the question with presumed willingness to be informed, but it rankles me in this day and age that such assumptions continue to be widely held.

PS--odds are, you know a gay person, whether they're out or not.

Abnormal = not normal.

Homosexuality is abnormal just like albinism or very high intelligence is abnormal. Most of the population is not attracted to the same sex.

As for morality, who gives a shit what consenting adults do in privacy. Whatever gets you through the night, it's all right, all right.

BR

It is normal for the human population to have a certain percentage of highly intelligent people. It is normal for the human population to have a certain number of left handed people. It is normal for the human population to have a certain percentage of homosexuals.

As a homosexual, I am normal because I am part of the normal percentage of homosexuals that has always existed in the human population, I am a normal part of the over all human population.

Abnormal for heterosexuals. And heterosexuality is abnormal for gays. (While Mormonism is abnormal for EVERYONE who owns their own mind.) The problem many people have (including you and me and a HUGE chunk of humanity) is that we were born into societies, cultures, religions, families, etc., with a heavy prejudice against homosexuality--probably because for a long, long time the majority has made all the rules for everyone ... and the majority of humanity is heterosexual. Minority rights--and sympathy for minorities--is a relatively new concept, and a lot of people are having trouble catching up with such enlightened concepts.

Don't be afraid of starting to own your own values: question EVERYTHING and make your own decisions. And, one of the most important ways to gain sympathy and understanding for those we fear and don't understand is to read widely with an open mind. I think forums like this are an excellent start.

Pedophilia is immoral because it involves children who are coerced or forced, and haven't got the judgment needed to understand what's happening and haven't got the power to resist.

Is having heterosexual sex using contraception immoral? Of course not. It's essential to have sexual contact to reinforce bonds and for physical and mental wellbeing. It was immoral for men to have sex with women who were always pregnant, and who died of childbirth.Humans are able to control the reproductive aspect now, yet this was once seen as immoral by Mormon leaders.

If oral and anal sex are immoral, then you can consider a vast number of heterosexuals as immoral.

I'm gay, and personally I hate anything to do with anal sex, yet my hetero work colleagues talk about it as a normal alternative to vaginal sex.

I consider it to be immoral how Mormons get teens in a closed room with a middle aged Bishop who asks them about their innermost thoughts and private self-pleasure. It's immoral to tell gay teens that they are garbage - they chose to be gay and are second only to murderers. It's immoral to make gay people feel so terrible about the way they were born that they kill themselves. THAT'S immoral.

Don't mormons believe in 7 levels of Heaven? That je-bus lives on a planet called Kaleb or something like that? Masonic symbols all over the temple. The killed hundreds of women and children claiming territory in utah?

Who the fuck are they to decide what's moral?

I'm gay and was forced to be mormon against my will. I've attempted suicide many times. Struggled with heroin and crack addiction since 15.

The Mormon cult was the single most immoral and destructive episode of my life, and I've had a lot!

Good luck to anyone involved with those assholes. I feel sorry for all of the closet cases in the cult and I know I was molested by one.

Determine for yourself what is moral, dont let a religion decide for you.

To quote myself from my teen years:

"Anal sex is messy because it doesnt self-lubricate like a vagina. Therefore butt-f**kIng isnt in God's plan.
Rome and Hellenic Greece embraced homosexuality, AND THEY ARE GONE NOW.

what do you think now?? is anal sex still not part of "Gods" plan? have your views changed? or do you still think anal sex is still not part of "Gods" plan?!?!

Homosexuality affects a consistent amount of the human population (at least 4%, perhaps higher) across cultures and across time periods. As people have pointed out, it occurs in other species as well.

No one (not any religion) can say for sure why this is so. It appears to be a normal variation.

As for immorality, who decided? If it is between two consenting adults, why would it be any more immoral than sex between two heterosexual adults? Because it doesn't lead to natural reproduction? Not all heterosexual sex leads (or can lead) to reproduction.

... then, by default, he must, at the very least, be bi-sexual.

If god created all things, then he only has himself to blame for those creations that supposedly don't meet his goofy standards.

If god knows all things and homosexuality is a choice, then god just had to know, in advance, which way all of his creations would roll.

So how do we know? We use our brains!

I submit that there is no god. Homosexuality, therefore, can be neither immoral or abnormal. It just is. If I am wrong (again, any info to the contrary is more than welcome), then this supposed "god" is entirely responsible for each of his homosexual creations. As a result, god should punish himself if he is not pleased.

After all, its his mess.

Timothy

How do we know that opening a soft-boiled egg at the big end is not immoral/abnormal?

Oh, that's right. We didn't have that BEATEN INTO OUR HEADS at church on a regular basis.

However, I know that the Church's stance on gays is immoral.

Religious people make homosexuality about sex. All romantic relationships are about sex, not just in homosexual relationships (Well, I guess there are those "romantic" relationships that aren't about sex.) BUT all relationships, either gay or straight, are about a lot more than sex.

My ex is homosexual whether he has sex or doesn't. It makes him unique.

I'm actually really weary of people trying to explain homosexuality or find answers for it--it just is. It shouldn't matter who someone is attracted to emotionally, physically, psychologically, mentally, and sexually.

Hervey also mentioned the "ick" factor. I think this is what it comes down to. We tend to forget that to many gays, straight sex is ICK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2012 12:20PM by cl2.